Purchase of Rental House

I for one have made 100 times as much with rentals as stocks.

It really does come down to leverage. Over time houses increase a little more than inflation. Figure about 4 percent a year. A general rule of thumb is they double in just less then 20 years. Rent follows the price.

My wife and I follow a few simple rules to determine what we buy.

1. Never buy a house we would not live in. That means no run-down crack houses in the hood. Most are three bdrm, 2 bath in nice neighborhoods.
2. The house must pay for itself from the first month.
3. Figure on getting 11 months income per year.
4. Apartments are your competition. Stay on top of their vacancy and rental rates.

We only buy middle class houses people would want to own. All needed repairs; some minor some major.

Real estate is local and relative. In lower cost areas, rent is also lower. In higher cost areas, rent is higher.

Generally speaking, when I buy a house I plan on increasing its value by 15-20% and making at least 8% a year starting the first year.

If I can buy a house for $80,000 and put $5000 in repairs I expect it to be worth at least $100,000 when I'm done. I'll expect to rent the house for $800 - $1000 a month.

In most cases I would have put 20% down or $16,000 in this case leaving $64,000 financed. For a total investment of $21,000 for a $100,000 house. That is nearly 5 to 1 leverage.

Here comes the fun part. That house will be positive cash flow from the start and the value and rent will go up about 4 percent a year.

The increased value of the house from $80,000 to $100,00 = +$20,000
The increase appreciation per year from $100,000 $104,000 = + $4,000

On paper, I have made back my entire investment plus a little profit the first year.
In ten years the house will be worth about $140,000. The rent will be increased to around $1300 a month and by applying the rent to the mortgage, it will be paid off.

In ten years my original $21,000 investment is worth $140,000 and is clearing $8,000 a year. Renters paid the mortgage.

I've done this over and over for +20 years.

You can't leverage stocks at 5 to 1, and even if you could, the margin costs would eat up any gains.

If you find you aren't good as a landlord, you can hire professional property managers to manage the properties. We are looking at doing this now to free up our time to do more pleasant things.

In my opinion, there is no better way for average people to become wealthy than in real estate, but like any business you have to understand the numbers.

At one point we owned 16 houses and 12 apartments. We sold most at the top of the bubble and are beginning to look at buying again.

We knew to sell because the market price of the house far exceeded a reasonable rent return. Now the returns are coming back in line.
 
If I can buy a house for $80,000 and put $5000 in repairs I expect it to be worth at least $100,000 when I'm done. I'll expect to rent the house for $800 - $1000 a month.

I only have one problem with this. P+I on 80K (at 6.5% ?) is only 500 per month. What is wrong with a person who can buy for 500 per month and is paying you a 1000 in rent instead?

Probably not the kind of people I want to deal with.

The only other problem for me is that I live in Calif, and there is no such scenario here.

If I did like owning real estate I would borrow out of my home and put the money in the Vanguard Reit which has a 12 year record of over 13%. If I borrowed 100k out of my house at 6.5% my payment would be 632. My return in Vanguard would be 1167, for a nice monthly profit of 535. Did I mention these REIT funds have nice dividends too?

The best part is no renter headaches and I can be out of the investment this afternoon. If I was smart enough to average into the REIT over the years in my Roth there would be no taxes on the profit, and I could write off the interest on the loan.

Capital gains and recup of depreciation stuck me good on the rentals I sold. Not to mention points, the real estate agent, etc.
 
As I romp through the land of wealth building, I keep encountering four types of people:
  • Stock market people -- owning stocks is the best way to build wealth.
  • Real estate people -- owning real estate is the best way to build wealth.
  • Business people -- owning your own business is the best way to build wealth.
  • "Tridextrous" people -- making money with whatever income-producing assets you own (and however you own them) is the best way to build wealth.
When I go to the supermarket to buy groceries, the cashier doesn't care whether my cash came from dividends, rents, profits, or capital gains. They only care that it's enough cash to cover the total cost of the purchase.

The point is that each form of investing has its tradeoffs in terms of leverage, taxes, risks, time, capital, expertise, and so forth. As long as you stay within your circle of competence and use common sense, you will do OK financially over the long term.

When your investment income exceeds your living expenses by your desired margin of safety, you have achieved financial freedom and don't have to work for someone else anymore to earn a living (unless, of course, you choose to continue to do so). Instead, you are "working" for yourself by managing your income-producing assets so they will continue to produce income for you for the rest of your life.
 
Case Schiller data is out for March 2008, and the SF bay area is still declining. The bay area index value is at 168, down from 174 last month, and the high of 218 from 2006. This means no net appreciation between March 2008 and May 2004 when the index was last at 167.

S&P | Indices > Alternative Indices - S&P/Case-Shiller® Home Price Indices - Home Price Values

Unfortunately Case-Shiller excludes ALL non single family home sales. All the condos that have appreciated 8-14% per year are excluded! Plus it is just a "three month moving average" of single family home resales. Just because one property appreciated 14% and another property was sold cheap in forclosure does not mean that there is no appreciation for the smart investor. It only means that some people weren't very smart.

This information has very limited use for the individual investing in real property. I'd love to see what paired sales he's using. I think they are also including the larger Bay Area to represent SF and that totally distorts the actual SF market.
 
Unfortunately Case-Shiller excludes ALL non single family home sales. All the condos that have appreciated 8-14% per year are excluded! Plus it is just a "three month moving average" of single family home resales. Just because one property appreciated 14% and another property was sold cheap in forclosure does not mean that there is no appreciation for the smart investor. It only means that some people weren't very smart.

This information has very limited use for the individual investing in real property. I'd love to see what paired sales he's using. I think they are also including the larger Bay Area to represent SF and that totally distorts the actual SF market.

What they call the 'San Francisco Metropolitan Area' is pretty darn large, and includes places that aren't exactly like the City of San Francisco... :rolleyes:

http://www2.standardandpoors.com/spf/pdf/index/SP_CS_Home_Price_Indices_Methodology_Web.pdf

San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA
Metropolitan Statistical Area

Alameda CA, Contra Costa CA, Marin CA,
San Francisco CA, San Mateo CA

This is a pretty large area. At least they didn't include San Joaquin County and Stockton. :p A few years ago, real estate types were actually pushing places way out there as 'an easy commute' to the San Francisco Bay Area. (An easy 3 hour each way commute to the SF Bay Area job centers!)

The downtown SF condo market doesn't correlate well with the Pittsburg/Antioch home market. Different target market, price range, and clientele. (Folks don't buy SF condos with nothing down to run them as urban pot farms until foreclosure... http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_9583397 )
 
The point is that each form of investing has its tradeoffs in terms of leverage, taxes, risks, time, capital, expertise, and so forth. As long as you stay within your circle of competence and use common sense, you will do OK financially over the long term.
I agree. That is why Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors. But this type of bantering is what makes the forum. So the person who originally asked the question can get varied opinions and make a decision of their own.

For me, I'll take two scoops of easy and stay out of real estate.
 
I only have one problem with this. P+I on 80K (at 6.5% ?) is only 500 per month. What is wrong with a person who can buy for 500 per month and is paying you a 1000 in rent instead?

Probably not the kind of people I want to deal with.

There are also taxes, maintenance and vacancies. These are the people you deal with every day. They live in all the apartments and many of the houses around you. There are many reasons people don't or can't buy a house. We have a new plant being built here creating a demand for upper end rentals to house the managers for two year stints; they don't want to buy. I have a 10+ year renter who is a bank manager (single lady), another who manages a Sports equipment retail store.

The only other problem for me is that I live in Calif, and there is no such scenario here.

If I did like owning real estate I would borrow out of my home and put the money in the Vanguard Reit which has a 12 year record of over 13%. If I borrowed 100k out of my house at 6.5% my payment would be 632. My return in Vanguard would be 1167, for a nice monthly profit of 535. Did I mention these REIT funds have nice dividends too?

The best part is no renter headaches and I can be out of the investment this afternoon. If I was smart enough to average into the REIT over the years in my Roth there would be no taxes on the profit, and I could write off the interest on the loan.

Capital gains and recup of depreciation stuck me good on the rentals I sold. Not to mention points, the real estate agent, etc.

R/E is local, but the ratios will still be close regardless of location. If price, term and rental rates aren't favorable don't buy. Properties can be exchanged to avoid capital gains.

To overcome and offset most of the the costs of buying and selling my wife became a part time agent and ended up going full time. She is now making many times what she had been in working for someone else. Sales are still fine in the South (not Florida). Although prices went a little high, we never had a bubble.

I also own REITS, stocks and funds but they will never make the kind of money I've made owning property.

As others have pointed out, there is no one best way for everyone, but people should understand the long term potential from owning rentals.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom