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2B 02-17-2009 05:39 AM

Any Bulls Left?
 
I have not heard one TV or radio pundit sound like a bull. The best I've heard is vague comments like "it will turn around eventually but I don't know when." I've heard numerous people say the "buy and hold is dead and anyone still in the market is a dumbsh*t."

Looking at the credit and political events, things do look bad and will probably get a lot worse. Has the end of the world been built into stock prices or is it still to come?

I'm still sitting on my ever dwindling stock portfolio felling like a dumbsh*t. :frown:

W2R 02-17-2009 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B (Post 784863)
I have not heard one TV or radio pundit sound like a bull. The best I've heard is vague comments like "it will turn around eventually but I don't know when." I've heard numerous people say the "buy and hold is dead and anyone still in the market is a dumbsh*t."

Looking at the credit and political events, things do look bad and will probably get a lot worse. Has the end of the world been built into stock prices or is it still to come?

I'm still sitting on my ever dwindling stock portfolio felling like a dumbsh*t. :frown:

Me, too, but what else can we do? Sell low? Not going to do it.

There are still bulls out there and there are still "end-of-the-universe" people out there. I am not convinced that columnists or radio and TV personalities know much more than we do, though. Columnists are just looking for headlines that will help their circulation statistics, IMO, and radio and TV personalities have similar motives.

What amazes me is that massive future inflation is not expected by all columnists and radio and TV personalities. I never expected the housing collapse (malfunctioning crystal ball, here) but I have been expecting inflation for some time. So far, so good. I can't help but hope that I am wrong about it.

Stevewc 02-17-2009 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B (Post 784863)
I'm still sitting on my ever dwindling stock portfolio felling like a dumbsh*t. :frown:

I'm still holding all my stocks. I continued to buy on the dips all the way down. If things get worse I plan to buy more. I may be dumb but my cost per share has gotten better and better. I basically buy total US stock index and a FTSE foreign index fund.
Here's to hoping it pays off for me,
Steve

2B 02-17-2009 07:56 AM

I keep buying about $2,000 worth of S&P500 index funds every 2 weeks in my SERP and 401k and I feel like a dumbsh*t doing it.

Most of the pundits miss every major move and then try to pretend that they told us it was going to happen long before it did. There's one guy on the afternoon radio with a 2 hour show. He alternates between predicting a big rally and a collapse - sometime during the same show. He has the best library of tapes having him call future market moves correctly. :rolleyes:

Have we capitulated yet?

ikubak 02-17-2009 08:01 AM

I have always been an optimist and I guess I still am. The difference is I used to expect things to get better and now I'm starting to think this will be one of the best depressions we've ever had.

I am a news junkie and these days it is hard to find anyone spouting good news. Even the optimists say things are going to get ugly before they get better. I used to think americans refinancing their mortgages, paying less at the gas pump and increasing their savings rate was a good thing, but the talking heads are saying we need to be spending our money. I guess if the american public won't spend themselves into oblivion, the government will do it for us.

I don't know what the answer is to get the world out of this funk, but I'll just keep doing what I've always done, save and invest.

ziggy29 02-17-2009 08:01 AM

I'm holding and buying more in my 401K since new money is steadily coming in, but no rebalancing in my other accounts for now. I'm sick of all the bleeding from the cuts inflicted by falling knives. My largest IRA is down to 53% stocks (from about 70% 15 months ago) and I have no intention of rebalancing it any time soon. I know some say I should be doing it, but I'm tired of watching good money go after bad.

tryan 02-17-2009 08:08 AM

Got Brinker's monthly MarketTimer ... says there will be a test of the market low then up from there. Says 2009 will be a good year. Does not expect the low to be violated.

Yeah, I know: financial porn.

Dog 02-17-2009 08:15 AM

I agree - it is very discouraging. It doesn't help that our leadership is so negative, even admitting that they don't know what to do (other then spend money). I wonder what would happen if everyone quit obsessing about the state of the economy? What ever happen to the war in IRAQ?

ziggy29 02-17-2009 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog (Post 784885)
I wonder what would happen if everyone quit obsessing about the state of the economy?

Unfortunately, with the Internet and the 24/7 TV news media, that genie is out of the bottle. It's much tougher to just live your life without being bombarded without constant doom, gloom and negativity, which likely only makes it worse.

Dawg52 02-17-2009 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B (Post 784863)

I'm still sitting on my ever dwindling stock portfolio felling like a dumbsh*t. :frown:

Same here. DOW futures down 195 at this moment. Let the food riots begin.:banghead:

Frugality_of_Apathy 02-17-2009 08:38 AM

DOW's going to 50,000 tomorrow*!







*Assuming tomorrow means April 13th 2035

ikubak 02-17-2009 09:13 AM

Just for fun I bought some emerging market etfs this morning. They've been slaughtered and are yielding over 5%. This move practically guarantees they will go much lower.

2B 02-17-2009 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikubak (Post 784899)
Just for fun I bought some emerging market etfs this morning. They've been slaughtered and are yielding over 5%. This move practically guarantees they will go much lower.

You are mistaken about the yield. Last year they had a distribution that works out to 5% based on the current ETF price. That certainly included distributions and possibly return of capital. You can't "bank" the distributions of these funds. It's a long time until December.

ziggy29 02-17-2009 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikubak (Post 784899)
Just for fun I bought some emerging market etfs this morning. They've been slaughtered and are yielding over 5%. This move practically guarantees they will go much lower.

When they bottom -- whenever that is -- REITs are going to be a screaming long-term bargain; they've been trashed even more than emerging markets. They're off 2/3 from their highs. When the leverage is wrung out and occupancy rates turn around, the value and dividend yields will be unreal. The problem is, where is that bottom and how close are we?

And for the very bold, global REITs are down more than 75% from the 2007 highs.

As for the yield, this is based on the current market value and the past 12 months of dividends actually paid out, which are likely to get cut in the next 12 months.

Independent 02-17-2009 09:21 AM

I'm still waiting for Business Week to have a cover story titled "The Death of Equities".

ikubak 02-17-2009 09:50 AM

OK, they yieldED over 5%. These days, no yield is safe except for maybe Philip Morris. Smokers will probably keep smoking through a severe recession or a depression.

dex 02-17-2009 10:01 AM

Not that I know anything ... I think there is more downside.
I'm looking at the relationship between the foreign exchange market and the US stock market.
It seems as if there is an inverse relationship for this market action - Dollar up; stock market down. We are close to the last high. But I think the Dollar will surpass that. Read the recent stories about the euro and the pound.
$INDU - SharpCharts from StockCharts.com
Bloomberg.com: Economy

I haven't sold anything. I have a very small amount to put into the market - I'll be watching the $.

Gold is doing well - but I don't invest in that. I can see countries buying gold as they get mad at the USA and what it is doing to the dollar. The dollar will fall. I do have money to invest in the Australian and Canadian $ - good because of interest rates and natural resources. If the euro and pound really get killed I might risk some money there.
I wonder if the euro will survive. I also wonder how a country get out of the euro and go back to their own currency.

shotgunner 02-17-2009 10:29 AM

Quote:

I'm still sitting on my ever dwindling stock portfolio felling like a dumbsh*t. :frown:
__________________
Although I have a 9 to 10 year cash cushion I would prefer to not have to use it. I feel every word of your quote and would simply make one change, "my ever rapidly dwindling..."

I really don't want to think it is different this time, but I wonder sometimes and today is one of them.

Oh yes and Bob Brinker, there is a guy you got it right last year.....LOL!!!!!!!

unclemick 02-17-2009 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunner (Post 784935)
Although I have a 9 to 10 year cash cushion I would prefer to not have to use it. I feel every word of your quote and would simply make one change, "my ever rapidly dwindling..."

I really don't want to think it is different this time, but I wonder sometimes and today is one of them.

Oh yes and Bob Brinker, there is a guy you got it right last year.....LOL!!!!!!!

Or even - this time it's NOT different - the yucky 1966-1982 flat with dips and rally's - I was young and working.

Another 16 yrs of 'yucky' in retirement - even on full auto with a lifecycle fund living on my trusty Norwegian widow cut - aka SEC yield while ok - is about as much fun as lousy weather and not football season.

heh heh heh - I guess me and the Norwegian widow may go shopping for a few good stocks - with a little mad money only. :greetings10: A few shares of Walmart perhaps?

CuppaJoe 02-17-2009 10:43 AM

Im a bull again, in a way, because I think there is a lot of upside. I am rebalancing slowly back in. It feels like the 70s where any investment will take years to pay off, and years is what I have for the stock part of my PF. My 72 investment took an almost instant dive; I can tolerate that again.


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