FIREside-- Bitter Criticism by friends / family & dealing with it?

[trib1]

Coming under nasty criticism from family (mother mainly, she's now a widow), and some close friends too. This is despite planning this now for 15 years. Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, can I ask how did you deal with it?

i'm talking about bitter criticism, the likes that really shakes your confidence in your own plans, as they seemingly-- 'will you to fail'. .so they can be proved right, perhaps?

EXAMPLES:-
You're lazy! ER / PT is really just an excuse for being lazy! Everybody else works, so why can't you. . you're lazy, that's why!

You're useless. . no good (loser) (because you don't have a McMansion, and a wife, and 4 kids, like everyone else in the family / golf club!).

Your plans are laughable! That's nowhere near enough money to FIRE! You're kidding yourself, you're not in the real world! (of course, net worth & swf & LBYM, aren't something they understand, they live in fear. . no amount of money, is enough to re on, for them!).
Thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Do not put up with people treating you that way. Family or not.

 

[ejman]

As General O'Shei used to say "f**k em! - strong letter to follow!!

 

[Bikerdude]

The first two examples are just plain stupid. The last may or may not be true.

I did not encounter this type of criticism because I do not have anyone I need to please and I don't give a c*rp what anyone (family or not) thinks about my long term plans.

 

[FUEGO]

Take a small part out of each of your soon to be free days and think about how their comments impact you. Your conclusion will probably be "not very much".

I am currently and plan on continuing to be vague and deceptive about my plans. That is how I will deal with this type of response!

But to respond to their criticisms and get them to shut up and get off your back, you can b.s. them. Tell them you are just planning on taking some time off work. If your audience is academically inclined, get sophisticated and tell them you are taking a sabbatical. Tell them you are pursuing other interests, writing a book, trying to pick up a new language, whatever. It might help them fill in the missing blanks in their mind that only work can fill from their point of view. Ultimately you don't owe them any kind of explanation, but it may help smooth out the relationship and you can make it clear that you would rather discuss something else other than your inability to think for yourself.

 

[bbbamI]

This works well for me.....

 

[LOL!]

I'm amused by your post because you appear to have no self-confidence. If your friends/family criticize you, why do you think you will get support here?

In other words, you are your own best friend.

I don't see why these comments bother you at all ... unless in your heart of hearts, you believe they might have some truth to them.

Anyways, I've never been bothered by what other people really think of me. I have my own life to live. Others (including you) can live your own lives as well.

 

[Sparky]

I don't tell anybody.

 

[MichaelB]

I did – and still do, 10 years later. Friends and family. My thought - it is not me, it is them and the projections of their own frustrations and unhappiness with the choices they have made. The solution to this does not lie with me – they need to learn to come to terms with themselves or learn to make different choices.

Of course, that never stopped the most critical from taking advantage of my “free” time and capabilities – which I give freely.

1. I never say I am retired, only that I took time off and haven’t yet decided to go back to the job market.

2. This certainly helped distinguish the difference between friends and acquaintances. My friends were, and still are, happy for me and supportive of my choice.

I also agree with ejman and bbbanI

 

[crazy connie]

I get worried about what others think only when they pay my bills. I have made damn sure that has not happened and doubt it ever will. Another way to phrase it is f*** em if they can't take a joke.

 

[bubba]

I get worried about what others think only when they pay my billls.

What she said.

 

[W2R]

I agree with the prior posts, but one thing concerns me.

Your plans are laughable! That's nowhere near enough money to FIRE!

Do you think that maybe they are right? I have no idea whether you have a hunded thousand or a hundred million. But these are (hopefully) people who care about you on some level, so I am wondering why they think this. Do you want to run your finances and budget by us on this thread? No need to do so if you would rather not, but you know we are always glad to critique a plan if/when desired.

 

[Donzo]

My close friends know that I am retired and are supportive. They will throw a joke my way when we are together but it is all in fun. I down play the term retired with people that ask and just say that I am taking some time off. With the current economy, this goes through with no problem. Frankly, I downplay my retirement even with friends. I went camping with several friends that are still working and retirement came up fireside. They asked how it was and I said "have you seen the market?! I am between jobs!" Nobody likes a bragger - you just have to live your own life and find your own happiness. There are always going to be "haters" that somehow think you don't deserve your current situation....cut em loose. I have stopped contact with a few people because of the negitive feelings they had about my FIRE.

Make sure your math is solid concerning finances....and smile knowingly when they protest.

 

[Cattusbabe]

Coming under nasty criticism from family (mother mainly, she's now a widow), and some close friends too. This is despite planning this now for 15 years. Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, can I ask how did you deal with it?

i'm talking about bitter criticism, the likes that really shakes your confidence in your own plans, as they seemingly-- 'will you to fail'. .so they can be proved right, perhaps?

EXAMPLES:-
You're lazy! ER / PT is really just an excuse for being lazy! You have it all wrong Mom. Its an opportunity to prefect the fine art of Leisure. Got no shame in my game.

Everybody else works, so why can't you.
Because my program is tight and I've got it that way.


. you're lazy, that's why!
Now Girlfriend. Remember the golden rule. Don't hate.

You're useless. . no good (loser) (because you don't have a McMansion, and a wife, and 4 kids, like everyone else in the family / golf club!).

I've got something better. Full control of my time and if you all keep this foolish up I won't be spending much of it with you so come correct.

Your plans are laughable! That's nowhere near enough money to FIRE! You're kidding yourself, you're not in the real world!
OH so since when are you in my wallet? Tell you what watch your ends and I'll watch mine dig?

(of course, net worth & swf & LBYM, aren't something they understand, they live in fear. . no amount of money, is enough to re on, for them!).
Thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

I added some examples of responses to your toxic friends and family comments on your ER plans. "Bite me" works in a pinch when you can't find anything else to say.

For someone who had their act together enough to FIRE I am surprised that this is an issue. You know those closest to you can push your buttons. While you can't do much about your family ditch your so called friends and get new ones.....you have the time. Tune out the drama, go about your business and live well.

 

[Nords]

Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, can I ask how did you deal with it?

Sounds like you need a new set of family.

Unless/until that happens, though, you wish them well and tell them you're going to try it for a while... and you'll let them know how it works out. Maybe you'll go back to work someday, but for now you need some time off to regroup and rethink your life.

Worked for me for over seven years so far. My FIL still can't shake his nagging suspicion that I'm going to render his daughter homeless & penniless after 22+ years of marriage.

If kids are in your plan, then Mom will come around if she ever wants to hang out with her grandkids. I don't get it (yet) but grandkids apparently have superpowers to turn our meanest parents into charming doting grandparents.

 

[Coach]

Trib1, that's bizarre! I'm not getting anything but congrats from my family. Just for a little context, and if you don't mind saying -- how old are you, married/single, kids?

Coach

 

[trib1]

Thanks for the comments.
I agree their criticisms are appallingly closed-minded! Some of it is their conditioning, i.e their parents worked till 60, so they must also. My begrudging culture I'm afraid : Everybody else works. . .why makes you so special etc!

TO FUEGO & MichaelB :-
Its come to a head because I'm now doing it. So its harder to hide any longer. I did stall them for as long as possible with vagueness, and misdirection. But selling property and not working for a considerable time, tends not to go unnoticed here. Its a shame some people behave in such a way: because they didn't get much freedom themselves (so you don't deserve to). The 'you should be as miserable as them' scenario! But I grafted, practised lbym, whereas they didn't!

Saw a BBC documentary once that argued that it was protestants that crafted the notion: that to be a 'worthy' member of society, one had subject themselves to lifelong graft! Before that, the world was largely more laid back (Jamican) in its work ethic, (work to live, versus the live to work).

 

[trib1]

TO LOL:
I'm not looking for support per se, not doing a 'poor me'. Just curious what others have done in similar situations, i.e. faced with hostility / negativity towards their ER plans. If none, then kudos to you!


So why do I care? :-
1. Pride. 2. A need for respect by ones family & peers, (it would be nice to have their well wishes, as I didn't expect this backlash). After all my future frugal life, isn't for them anyway, (and its not like I won the lottery!).
3. In my country and culture, family elders dominate, sometimes to the point of toxicity. A strong sense of duty is instilled in you, so people can sometimes make you feel ashamed (i.e. you've let them down).
4. Nobody and no ER plan is bullet proof in this uncertain world.

 

[trib1]

To Want2Retire :-
Nest egg.
Sold home #2, now selling home #1. Expect to have (conservatively): Half million (in cash) split evenly in USD and EUROS. No debt! No IRA's, no 401K's, no equities, no bonds, no pensions at this time. Had desired $1M net worth, but alas that wasn't to be. Other factors: Single, Age early 40's. On a side note, it is possible, even likely, that in time, I will inherit the same or similar amount, to that above.

 

[REWahoo]

Trib,

Sorry for your tribulations

I noticed this...

3. In my country and culture, family elders dominate, sometimes to the point of toxicity. A strong sense of duty is instilled in you, so people can sometimes make you feel ashamed (i.e. you've let them down).

...plus your use of the term "graft" (British slang for work or labor) in a prior post. This indicates you aren't from Illinois as your profile states, at least not originally.

Where do you live?

 

[W2R]

To Want2Retire :-
Nest egg.
Sold home #2, now selling home #1. Expect to have (conservatively): Half million (in cash) split evenly in USD and EUROS. No debt! No IRA's, no 401K's, no equities, no bonds, no pensions at this time. Had desired $1M net worth, but alas that wasn't to be. Other factors: Single, Age early 40's. On a side note, it is possible, even likely, that in time, I will inherit the same or similar amount, to that above.

So, what kind of budget are you anticipating? If you can manage on $20,000 (before taxes) once you have that half million, and if your life expectancy is around 25-30 years or less, then I don't think you have a problem.

On the other hand, that might be pretty tough if you have to pay rent.

And, you should withdraw less than that from your portfolio if your life expectancy is longer; in your early 40's, if your health is good I would think that you might live another 40-50 years, in which case your withdrawal rate should be closer to $15K before taxes. Is that a budget you can handle?

How about health insurance? Your entire budget could go to health insurance as you get older.

I am not trying to discourage you - - just trying to see if I can find any problems with your plan.

As an aside - - I would strongly recommend to never, never never expect an inheritance. It sounds like you have that figured out already. Anything can happen, and if you don't expect anything then if you do inherit it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

[trib1]

In any event, I'm already doing it, going ahead, its unavoidable now, as its the only thing I want to do! The Mother- being a widow in recent years, and being unused to independent living without her hubby (with all other family having moved away, is possibly also a factor that's played a part in making me feel guilty, or apprehensive for the first time.

Before that it wasn't relevant, as I was too busy grafting, saving etc. I will undoubtedly miss some friends too that can't deal with it, and see me as flaking out, and deserting them. .

To Cattusbabe:-
That would be fun! But in my small circle it would also likely detonate something galactic!

To Nords & Donzo
Thanks, think I'll play it down, as you suggest: . . Tell them. .taking a break, rethinking ER outlook considering the downturn. In other words, point blank lie! (it gives them less ammunition for the moment).

 

[trib1]

To REWahoo
I'm irish. Went to college in England (midlands) worked there for a bit too, but have now lived half my life in Chicago (just sold up there, now tying up loose ends, and saying goodbye to people).

 

[REWahoo]

I'm easily confused - thanks for the explanation.

 

[trib1]

To WantToRetire
Doing close readings of the posts on PTing in ASIA & Latin America, so am looking at doing 3 mth PT stints in each for next few years, (will see how that works out). I'm doing numbers as we speak.

That should help stretch monies, without becoming too homesick, while adding some spice to life. However for simplicity sake, lets assume, its Ireland only.

Minimum wage in Ireland is 17k euro. (gross). Expect to burn 10k Euro / year (very frugal), 12k Euro / year (with some convienances), and 15k euro/year (very comfortable). Which one?. . TBD. Ireland is rather backrupt! It makes it difficult to determine which spending model will apply, because the government here has only alluded to the barrage of taxes it plans to impose to bail out the banks, builders, and public sector workers / politicians!

On a side note, I have some written works. Its a total long shot if these will ever be sold, but Ireland is tax free for writers, but of course that could easily be revoked meantime! . .