Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community

Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/)
-   Forum Admin (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/)
-   -   OK... the title above says.... (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/ok-the-title-above-says-49699.html)

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 08:52 AM

OK... the title above says....
 
The title above says Early Retirement Org.

I wonder if the forum as a whole could stick to issues that involve retirement or early retirement, and that threads in forums complaining about people who get early retirement or retirement pensions could be eliminated.

These include constant complaining about people who got pensions from the public sector and how other people don't want to pay these governmental obligations because they didn't get one too from their private source, or complaints about people who saved too much money.

I just wish that these kinds of sometimes nasty complaining could not be a part of this forum. Its not my choice, and after awhile one just learns to ignore certain threads or certain people who complain all the time, but still....... Its my thought.

This is not a complaint about complaining. Its a suggestion about management in regards to certain non-retirement preparation related threads.

Zarathu

REWahoo 04-14-2010 08:55 AM

Slippery slope. Once the mods start policing complaints about pensions they may feel compelled to quell photos of kittens - or even of bacon!

Martha 04-14-2010 08:58 AM

Put the threads that bug you on ignore. That might help.

ziggy29 04-14-2010 09:21 AM

IMO -- and speaking only for myself -- if we selectively "banned" discussion of every financial subject (and this *is* a subject that involves and impacts early retirement, whether you are receiving one or paying for them) that someone found disturbing, offensive or troublesome, we'd have nothing left to talk about.

I would simply second Martha's suggestion about the use of the "ignore thread" feature.

And to REW - kittens maybe, but banning threads and pictures of bacon? Heresy.

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 925447)
Slippery slope. Once the mods start policing complaints about pensions they may feel compelled to quell photos of kittens - or even of bacon!

Yeah. Photos of kittens would be OK if its related to how a kitten augments or detracts from retirement, but not about how some people shouldn't be allowed to have kittens because people don't want to have to pay for the taxes to pick up stray cats . And I think discussions about bacon as to how it augments or detracts from retirement is ok; but arguments about how bacon should not be sold because other people don't like bacon is not ok, or don't want to pay for the regulatory agency in their taxes to keep bacon safe is not ok.

It has to be about augmenting or detracting from early or regular retirement. it should not be about why we should deny certain people retirement because we don't like what it costs society.

Or maybe these posts on the pension part should be moved to the political discussion areas, where people can be free to argue stuff that nobody can change and nobody is planning on changing their opinion about it.

I'm sure I've not been here long enough to do more than make suggestions, maybe not even that.

I'm writing from a concern of one of those who is getting one of these public pensions, and I just find it disagreeable to have to put up with people saying strongly, ON A FORUM ABOUT EARLY RETIREMENT, that because they have to pay taxes, I shouldn't get my pension. I see it on other forums about taxes and stuff. But discussions on this forum which is about retirement and making it in retirement, that talks openly about denying certain people their obligated retirement is not a slippery slope.

Anything that causes such rancor should not be included in a slippery slope concern, IMO. What you are saying then is that there is not a specific subject area for this website, even though it says that at the top..... again in my opinion, only.

z

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 925453)
IMO -- and speaking only for myself -- if we selectively "banned" discussion of every financial subject (and this *is* a subject that involves and impacts early retirement, whether you are receiving one or paying for them) that someone found disturbing, offensive or troublesome, we'd have nothing left to talk about.

I would simply second Martha's suggestion about the use of the "ignore thread" feature.

And to REW - kittens maybe, but banning threads and pictures of bacon? Heresy.

I'm not specifically asking for a ban. I'm asking that it be moved to political discussions. Discussions about why I shouldn't get my pension because of taxes for others has nothing to do with learning about ways to deal with the finances of retirement. This is not a financial subject. its a political discussion about why some people should not be allowed to get early retirement. Or, why its too expensive to give some people retirement.

These are in fact political discussions, not financial discussions.

FIREd 04-14-2010 09:37 AM

If you guys start banning photos of kittens posted gratuitously, that's it, I'm walking...:rolleyes:

It has been proven that kitten purr and probably kitten pictures lower people's blood pressure which means a longer life expectancy, which means a lower SWR and, for those of us with cats, some kind of estate planning might even be involved (do my cats get a step up in cost basis upon my death?)... So kittens are indeed totally relevant to the ER discussion...;D

donheff 04-14-2010 10:07 AM

As a public pensioner I disagree. It is an appropriate subject. You should stay out of the conversation (particularly those in the politics forum) if you are uncomfortable.

RonBoyd 04-14-2010 10:19 AM

And don't even think about messing with this Winning formula:

https://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ens-49201.html

CuppaJoe 04-14-2010 10:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
May I point out that the forum can be self-moderated, that is by members; perhaps you could be more specific by reporting posts which you think go too far. My cat is reading the case law on this as we speak.

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 10:42 AM

Well.... I have the right to ignore posters and ignore threads that I think aren't part of the topic.

I don't have the right to control the majority. If there are a large number of people who want to argue about whether I have the right as an educator for 40 years to have a pension because they don't feel like paying for it now, even though as a group, they had no problem with putting it in the law 40 years ago, THAT'S A DECISION BY THIS GROUP.

I still think stuff like that belongs in political discussion since it has nothing to do with preparing for retirement in a financial way.

But whatever the group decides, its no big deal for me. Just thought it was worth bringing up.

Z

CuppaJoe 04-14-2010 10:45 AM

Quote:

=Zarathu;925497...

I still think stuff like that belongs in political discussion since it has nothing to do with preparing for retirement in a financial way.
...
It's up to you to hit the "report post" triangle and request that a particular post be moved to another section.

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuppaJoe (Post 925500)
It's up to you to hit the "report post" triangle and request that a particular post be moved to another section.

If the administrators and moderators as a group or whoever makes such decisions decide that that particular topic is more of a political discussion than a way to handle finance, then I will do that. Otherwise, moderators have enough to do without dealing with idiotic requests to move threads. I used to be a moderator on another forum(the only one actually). I know what a fine edge job it is without a lot of thankyou's for doing it.

Z

CuppaJoe 04-14-2010 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925506)
.... moderators have enough to do without dealing with idiotic requests to move threads. ....

I see nothing idiotic about using the resources available to every member.

ziggy29 04-14-2010 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925497)
I still think stuff like that belongs in political discussion since it has nothing to do with preparing for retirement in a financial way.

If people may have to have their taxes raised in order to make good on current and future pension promises, that does impact their ability to save for retirement, does it not?

In reality, almost anything financial has some bearing on the issue of retirement. Now if it gets uncivil or abusive or over-the-top political, then it would be time to re-evaluate the thread and either move it or close it as necessary.

Bestwifeever 04-14-2010 11:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925444)
The title above says Early Retirement Org.

I wonder if the forum as a whole could stick to issues that involve retirement or early retirement, and that threads in forums complaining about people who get early retirement or retirement pensions could be eliminated.

These include constant complaining about people who got pensions from the public sector and how other people don't want to pay these governmental obligations because they didn't get one too from their private source, or complaints about people who saved too much money.

I just wish that these kinds of sometimes nasty complaining could not be a part of this forum. Its not my choice, and after awhile one just learns to ignore certain threads or certain people who complain all the time, but still....... Its my thought.

This is not a complaint about complaining. Its a suggestion about management in regards to certain non-retirement preparation related threads.

Zarathu

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: You mean like this one: https://www.early-retirement.org/foru...are-49517.html? Really I thought you enjoyed these threads since you have posted to them so many times, besides starting that one. Let us know any other topics that you are not longer interested in so we can take care of them too (just having a little fun here :) )

Meanwhile:

Bacon candy
Prep: 5 minutes Cook: 15 minutes Makes: 4 servings

Adapted from a recipe by Kat Kinsman, an AOL Food editor, who guarantees it'll be the first thing snatched up at any party.

8 strips bacon (not thick-cut)

1/4 cup brown sugar

Heat oven to 350 degrees. Slice bacon strips crosswise in half. Sprinkle bacon with brown sugar on one side; pat down so sugar adheres. Place on a wire rack in a foil-lined rimmed baking sheet. Bake until crispy, about 15-20 minutes. Let cool and harden before serving.

Nutrition information: Per serving: 120 calories, 39% of calories from fat, 5 g fat, 2 g saturated fat, 14 mg cholesterol, 14 g carbohydrates, 5 g protein, 296 mg sodium, 0 g fiber

ziggy29 04-14-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925506)
If the administrators and moderators as a group or whoever makes such decisions decide that that particular topic is more of a political discussion than a way to handle finance, then I will do that. Otherwise, moderators have enough to do without dealing with idiotic requests to move threads.

I don't see why it's idiotic. And keep in mind that we're human and don't always see everything -- it really does help us when people bring something they find questionable to our immediate attention. When posts are reported we will discuss it and we may or may not agree with the objection and we may or may not take action on it. But everything reported to us is discussed.

ziggy29 04-14-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 925510)
Nutrition information: Per serving: 120 calories, 39% of calories from fat, 5 g fat, 2 g saturated fat, 14 mg cholesterol, 14 g carbohydrates, 5 g protein, 296 mg sodium, 0 g fiber

I call BS if they claim one slice is a "serving." :)

haha 04-14-2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
Wow, this makes it crystal clear for me. I want to use it arguing on ER.org!

Ha

REWahoo 04-14-2010 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha (Post 925524)
Wow, this makes it crystal clear for me. I want to use it arguing on ER.org!

Ha

So it would appear... :)

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 925510)
You mean like this one: https://www.early-retirement.org/foru...are-49517.html? Really I thought you enjoyed these threads since you have posted to them so many times, besides starting that one. r

I do.... to a point. OK, you can have your fun.

Rustic23 04-14-2010 11:57 AM

I get two public pensions and I don't mind the conversation. How else are you going to find out what others are thinking if you don't let them express themselves. I don't see where a conversation on public pensions would fit into Politics unless the discussion was something like 'Why is the Obama administration trying to cut public pensions?' However, a discussion as to weather teachers and other public employees pensions are in trouble or too fat, or are out of line and effecting others ability to retire seems within bounds.

haha 04-14-2010 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 925526)
So it would appear... :)

+1 on that!

donheff 04-14-2010 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925530)
I do.... to a point. OK, you can have your fun. I guess its worthless to try to get my point across anymore.

Forget I brought it up.

Actually, it is probably valuable that you hear things like this (me too as a public pensioner). If federal, state and local debt situations continue to deteriorate all bets could be off - including those set in current laws. It is worth our while to see what our fellow citizens are thinking the new order should be :)

travelover 04-14-2010 03:39 PM

I just want to go on the record as opposing tax payer funded pensions for kittens, though an exception may be made for heroic actions by cats, especially in the defense of bacon. :laugh:

Nords 04-14-2010 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925444)
The title above says Early Retirement Org.
I wonder if the forum as a whole could stick to issues that involve retirement or early retirement...

On topic? You expect this board, which is legendary for its thread hijacks, to stay on topic?!? Good luck with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925444)
... and that threads in forums complaining about people who get early retirement or retirement pensions could be eliminated.

Of the nearly 10,000 registered members on this board, you appear to be the only one offended by the topic. I'd try not to take it personally, because it's not necessarily about you personally.

If you're offended by a particular poster, that's what the "Ignore Poster" feature is for.

From https://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ork&page=rules :
Quote:

Other than politics not directly related to early retirement, we don't have rules about what is appropriate discussion material. Certainly any discussions related to early retirement are welcome - we don't have any "party line" and while individual members may have (and express) strong opinions on anything from paying off your mortgage early to the wisdom of annuities, they speak for themselves.
We just ask everyone to follow the "reasonable person" principle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925444)
I just wish that these kinds of sometimes nasty complaining could not be a part of this forum. Its not my choice, and after awhile one just learns to ignore certain threads or certain people who complain all the time, but still....... Its my thought.

You can wonder and you can wish, but I think you'll be a lot more successful at changing your own behavior/feelings before you'll succeed in changing any of the behavior/feelings of the other posters.

There are many other retirement discussion boards out there on the Internet, and maybe you'll feel more welcome on one of them. You could even start your own.

As dozens of other members have learned for themselves, if this place is making you grumpy then you either need to take a break or move on.

Leonidas 04-14-2010 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925456)
Anything that causes such rancor should not be included in a slippery slope concern, IMO. What you are saying then is that there is not a specific subject area for this website, even though it says that at the top..... again in my opinion, only.

I look up there and see "Early Retirement Forums" and think that my pension is a very big part of why I retired at 45. And around here it is well-recognized that pensions (and access to health care) is the golden ring to snatch if you want to retire early without making zillions or hitting the lotto.

I've been batting the pension topic around this ballpark long before you showed up, and I will agree that for some of the other posters there is a perceptible opinion that "I don't have it so neither should you." But those folks are in the minority, and almost all of them will listen to alternative opinions. But the majority of the folks here, who don't have pensions, are mostly concerned about the economic viability of their local and state governments that are being burdened with huge deficits in public pensions. I think that's reasonable, given that they are the cash cows funding source for those governments.

And trust me, you're not anywhere near the first person who got his nipples caught up in the whirling machinery that poses for debate and discussion in this place. Even when the debate is civil, not everybody is going to agree with you. Many will differ because they honestly believe differently, and then there are few idiots and trolls in the mix that would argue what color the grass is supposed to be. If you're going to actively engage in the conversation here, being disagreed with (even when the person on the other side is so clearly wrong because anybody can see you're right) is just something you have to get used to, ignore, or leave.

So, decide if you can deal with it - and if not, then our loss is some other forums gain. And if you're going to stay, do what I do - put a bandaid on them mangled, bleeding nipples of yours and cowboy up pardner.

clifp 04-14-2010 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords (Post 925619)
On topic? You expect this board, which is legendary for its thread hijacks, to stay on topic?!? Good luck with that.


Of the nearly 10,000 registered members on this board, you appear to be the only one offended by the topic. I'd try not to take it personally, because it's not necessarily about you personally.

If you're offended by a particular poster, that's what the "Ignore Poster" feature is for.


As dozens of other members have learned for themselves, if this place is making you grumpy then you either need to take a break or move on.

What Nords said.

So people want to crusade to make people aware about abused animals, autistic kids, or global warming. I'm on crusade to warn people about underfunded public pensions, it is not like I am alone in talking about them, it is subject of many press articles. I take a certain pride in digging deeper than the typical reporter. Perhaps you should write to NY Times, Washington Post, or WSJ and suggest that they should stop writing about them also.???

If you start a thread about pension, I'll certainly join in. You are free to ignore me, ignore the topic, or go someplace else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover (Post 925611)
I just want to go on the record as opposing tax payer funded pensions for kittens, though an exception may be made for heroic actions by cats, especially in the defense of bacon. :laugh:

On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action. Based on studies by PETA and the Humane society I calculate about 1.8 lives are lost on average.
The typical heroic feline will live an additional 7 years, with a estimated food, treat,and annual vet bill of $220. According FireCalc a $1,500 portfolio will have 75% success rate in providing care for the courageous cats. :rolleyes:, or about $0.25/taxpayer.;D

FIREd 04-14-2010 04:29 PM

My cats got trust funds, they don't need no taxpayer-funded pension...;) They are Bama cats through and through and all they care about is lower taxes (so that mommy and daddy have more money left over for Filet Mignon Fancy Feast).;D

REWahoo 04-14-2010 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp (Post 925651)
... or about $0.25/taxpayer.

Which works out to 1-3 slices of bacon, depending on thickness...

freebird5825 04-14-2010 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 925510)
Meanwhile:

Bacon candy
Prep: 5 minutes Cook: 15 minutes Makes: 4 servings

Quit doing that! :( Just kidding. ;)

As far as public pensions are concerned, I am the recipient of a CSRS survivor pension now, with my own FERS pension on deck in 5 years. I cannot ever remember anyone here personally giving me any grief about either one.
I follow these pension discussions closely because it expands my own horizons to see different opinions. An open mind is a good thing to keep. :flowers:

W2R 04-14-2010 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREdreamer (Post 925655)
My cats got trust funds, they don't need no taxpayer-funded pension...;) They are Bama cats through and through and all they care about is lower taxes (so that mommy and daddy have more money left over for Filet Mignon Fancy Feast).;D

I live in New Orleans where I eat the best food in the world on a daily basis, and yet even to me that Filet Mignon Fancy Feast sounds awfully good. :blush: I promise I will change!

I am the happy recipient of a federal pension that I earned, and I do not especially relate to posts from those who think it should be taken from me. To me a pension is part of a compensation package, and pension and health care were the big reasons why I worked for the federal government. (I sure didn't do it for the mentally challenging, stimulating, ego-fulfilling nature of my work :laugh:).

We each made our own deals in choosing a job and compensation package. Yet, if someone wants to whine post about how they should take my pension (or house, or car, or portfolio), I suppose I can try to explain the facts of life to them or else I can just go on to read other posts instead, or just laugh.

Meanwhile, they can complain all they want about my (admittedly tiny) pension, but every month it shows up in my bank account. :greetings10:

Texas Proud 04-14-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925497)
Well.... I have the right to ignore posters and ignore threads that I think aren't part of the topic.

I don't have the right to control the majority. If there are a large number of people who want to argue about whether I have the right as an educator for 40 years to have a pension because they don't feel like paying for it now, even though as a group, they had no problem with putting it in the law 40 years ago, THAT'S A DECISION BY THIS GROUP.

I still think stuff like that belongs in political discussion since it has nothing to do with preparing for retirement in a financial way.

But whatever the group decides, its no big deal for me. Just thought it was worth bringing up.

Z


I think everything should be open... if I do not like a topic, I don't read... if I don't like a person's comments, I put on ignore (note: I do not have anyone on ignore... I like reading other people's opinion even when they are completely wrong and stupd :coolsmiley:... and I am not talking about you )

I do not think anybody said you should not get your retirement benefits that you have earned and I would think are already getting... I would like you to point me in that direction if you did. Most everybody that I have read is saying future benefits...

HsiaoChu 04-14-2010 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud (Post 925679)
I do not think anybody said you should not get your retirement benefits that you have earned and I would think are already getting... I would like you to point me in that direction if you did. Most everybody that I have read is saying future benefits...

On the basis of future benefits, I break with my unions. While I feel bad for those currently not vested, I fully understand that the time for defined benefit plans in public pensions is gone.

And no, Texas Proud, you and most others haven't said that current people in the bargaining vestings should lose their pensions. But some people have, and some have gotten pretty nasty about it. And I fully understand this. My taxes in retirement will also go up for this, and since I'm moving 600 miles away, not even to help those that I worked with. But I think the discussion should not center on hand wringing but on solutions.

Still..... its good to try to remember that the purpose of this forum is retirement and living OK in retirement. And discussion that encourages discussions about making people live less well because other people are living less well is not in the spirit of the ER forum, In my opinion.

Rich_by_the_Bay 04-14-2010 06:09 PM

Zarathu, forums each have their own culture. This one is notorious for its tendency to drift off into tangents which sometimes bear little or no relation to the original post. Its moderation is light, in my opinion, which to me is a good thing.

I admit I found it vexing when I started out, because I was starved for "hard" financial information and advice -- difficult to pin down when the thread was gyrating wildly.

But after a while I came to like the unpredictability and often interesting or humorous digressions. Maybe if you see it from that perspective, the pesky pension pot-shots won't bug you. Until you brought it up, I hadn't even noticed that there was a "problem."

So my suggestion is to just go with the flow a little. Most of the pension-haters are probably just envious. You're a relatively new member so enjoy the ride.

calmloki 04-14-2010 06:15 PM

Back when my gal was a service manager she used to have old geezers coming in and trying to wheedle down the cost of their car repairs with the "i'm on a fixed income" line. you know - pensioners. She defused and disarmed by crying out "Wow! You're lucky! I have to work for a living and don't know where next month's income is coming from"!

Bestwifeever 04-14-2010 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp (Post 925651)
....On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action. Based on studies by PETA and the Humane society I calculate about 1.8 lives are lost on average.
The typical heroic feline will live an additional 7 years, with a estimated food, treat,and annual vet bill of $220. According FireCalc a $1,500 portfolio will have 75% success rate in providing care for the courageous cats. :rolleyes:, or about $0.25/taxpayer.;D

I don't understand why cats can't fund their own retirements; the remainder of their nine lives mean taxpayers are paying waaaay more than they do for dogs, who have just the one paltry life but who are much more courageous when it comes to defending bacon.

Nords 04-14-2010 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud (Post 925679)
I think everything should be open... if I do not like a topic, I don't read... if I don't like a person's comments, I put on ignore (note: I do not have anyone on ignore... I like reading other people's opinion even when they are completely wrong and stupid

I have 39 posters on my "Ignore" list, although at least 30 of them appear to be no longer active on this forum.

In an apparently unrelated coincidence, this forum has become a much mellower and happier place since I stopped having to read every post...

ERD50 04-14-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp (Post 925651)

On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action.

Do pension benefits promised to a cat during one life carry over to the next life? I thought pensions were analogous to an annuity for 'life' - singular. Wouldn't the cat need to negotiate a new pension for this new life?

Hmmm, that brings up an interesting philosophical question for those who believe in reincarnation. Should those people be able to ask for a pension for 'lives' (plural)? Since reincarnation is often based on religious beliefs, it may be considered discriminatory to reject these claims.

Come to think of it, those cats probably have a Union strong enough to get pensions for multiple lives. They seem to get very good compensation and medical for very little work. :coolsmiley:

-ERD50

clifp 04-14-2010 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 (Post 925792)
Do pension benefits promised to a cat during one life carry over to the next life? I thought pensions were analogous to an annuity for 'life' - singular. Wouldn't the cat need to negotiate a new pension for this new life?

Hmmm, that brings up an interesting philosophical question for those who believe in reincarnation. Should those people be able to ask for a pension for 'lives' (plural)? Since reincarnation is often based on religious beliefs, it may be considered discriminatory to reject these claims.

Come to think of it, those cats probably have a Union strong enough to get pensions for multiple lives. They seem to get very good compensation and medical for very little work. :coolsmiley:

-ERD50

I can always count on you to ask interesting question.

Believe it or not I've actually thought about reincarnation a fair amount. The traditional afterlife stuff never had much of an appeal, but reincarnation always intrigued me.

My top choice has always been to come back as one of my sister's impossible spoiled house cats, my second choice is a beautiful girl in some place like Italy, Brazil, or parts of the US. Now since I am starting out at pretty cushy position 50 year old retiree living in Hawaii, you can see that laziness is high on my priority list.

I have never really study the philosophy behind reincarnation but my understanding is your are suppose prove your worthiness at each level. So at first guess, I think it would be cheating to start of life with a pension, even a lousy non-cola'ed private pension, and of course a public pension, would be worse than taking steroids...;D

Texas Proud 04-14-2010 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki (Post 925719)
Back when my gal was a service manager she used to have old geezers coming in and trying to wheedle down the cost of their car repairs with the "i'm on a fixed income" line. you know - pensioners. She defused and disarmed by crying out "Wow! You're lucky! I have to work for a living and don't know where next month's income is coming from"!


Ohhhh.... that is better than the one I usually use.... which was "So am I"...

Most people look at you funny, but when I explain that my income is 'fixed'.. and I am not likely to get a raise this year or next... and YOU will...

But then SS will not increase... so that one went down the tubes...

kyounge1956 04-15-2010 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 (Post 925792)
Do pension benefits promised to a cat during one life carry over to the next life?(snip)

-ERD50

They do if life #1 selects one of the options that pays a survivor benefit and names lives #2-9 as beneficiaries. :laugh:

Leonidas 04-15-2010 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R (Post 925845)
It is amazing how many people have ignore lists, and we are glad to see this feature used.

Man, I wish there was a real life "ignore button" - it would have so come in handy back when I had a j*b!

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp (Post 925808)
I can always count on you to ask interesting question.

Believe it or not I've actually thought about reincarnation a fair amount. The traditional afterlife stuff never had much of an appeal, but reincarnation always intrigued me.

My top choice has always been to come back as one of my sister's impossible spoiled house cats, my second choice is a beautiful girl in some place like Italy, Brazil, or parts of the US. Now since I am starting out at pretty cushy position 50 year old retiree living in Hawaii, you can see that laziness is high on my priority list.

You are confusing reincarnation with "TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS". In reincarnation, you have a hierarchy of development. Once you are incarnating in the human kingdom, you have passed through the door from the animal kingdom and you can never go back. You can only incarnate as a human. The next kingdom's door is what is called the crucifixion initiation, and once passing that you can never go back to the human kingdom. I can suggest some reading: THE RAYS AND THE INITIATIONS by Alice A. Bailey.

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas (Post 925868)
Man, I wish there was a real life "ignore button" - it would have so come in handy back when I had a j*b!

There was that movie where the dude had a rewind and fast forward button. But maybe the question here is what super powers would you like to have in order:

1. Ability to transport myself and anyone or anything touching me for a certain perimeter instantly to any location.

2. Invisibility

3. Time travel.


Z

Leonidas 04-15-2010 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925876)
There was that movie where the dude had a rewind and fast forward button. But maybe the question here is what super powers would you like to have in order:

1. Ability to transport myself and anyone or anything touching me for a certain perimeter instantly to any location.

2. Invisibility

3. Time travel.


Z

Those are good, but I also like the superpower that Nicholas Cage had in Next. He could see a few minutes into the future, so he used it to see the immediate outcomes of his actions and he could go through however many iterations of future possibilities until he hit on the right one.

Or, give me a magic watch that can stop time like in The Girl, The Gold Watch, and Everything.

ziggy29 04-15-2010 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas (Post 925886)
Those are good, but I also like the superpower that Nicholas Cage had in Next. He could see a few minutes into the future, so he used it to see the immediate outcomes of his actions and he could go through however many iterations of future possibilities until he hit on the right one.

Nice, but really with a time machine is this even needed? If the outcome from your actions is bad, just hop in the time machine and go back to the point in time before the decision is made. Do this until the best outcome is achieved. Sort of like Groundhog Day in that respect.

Leonidas 04-15-2010 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 925889)
Nice, but really with a time machine is this even needed? If the outcome from your actions is bad, just hop in the time machine and go back to the point in time before the decision is made. Do this until the best outcome is achieved. Sort of like Groundhog Day in that respect.

Yeah, but I to read too much sci-fi as a kid to not worry about going back in time and stepping on the wrong butterfly to find that act has set off a chain of events that ends up destroying the world in the future/present.

If you saw the movie Next, you remember that Cage's character could just think about doing something and he would see how it played out. There was a great scene in which he had to meet a certain girl and get her to fall for him (so he could eventually find the terrorist's nuclear bomb or something like that). Anyway, he found her having an argument with her abusive boyfriend and he just sat there watching and imagining different moves until he found one that worked.

Groundhog day was cool, but you would be limited to what you can do because even though you eventually rule the universe of a single day, you're stuck with whatever possibilities that day offers. Like Billy Murray said in that movie, "I'm a god. I'm not The God, I don't think." Too many limitations there.

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 925889)
Nice, but really with a time machine is this even needed? If the outcome from your actions is bad, just hop in the time machine and go back to the point in time before the decision is made. Do this until the best outcome is achieved. Sort of like Groundhog Day in that respect.

In the actual time machine movie, the dude tried to go back to save his girlfriend. He did it over and over again but each time something intervened and he couldn't actually change circumstances.

I'd be more interested in picking up new items that appraised well on the PBS Antique Road Show. Not much of a disruption of the time line to buy a dish from the early 16th century that is brand new.

Z

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas (Post 925890)
Yeah, but I to read too much sci-fi as a kid to not worry about going back in time and stepping on the wrong butterfly to find that act has set off a chain of events that ends up destroying the world in the future/present.
.

There was that Twilight Zone one where the guy stepped on a butterfly in the Jurassic period and came back to people who looked like pigs and spoke a weird language of gutteral sounds.

Texas Proud 04-15-2010 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 925889)
Nice, but really with a time machine is this even needed? If the outcome from your actions is bad, just hop in the time machine and go back to the point in time before the decision is made. Do this until the best outcome is achieved. Sort of like Groundhog Day in that respect.

Boy is this way off the OP...

But... you then have the 'butterfly effect'... and jumping back to fix something messes up something else... and if you remember ALL your jumps... how will your mind handle it???

Texas Proud 04-15-2010 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925896)
There was that Twilight Zone one where the guy stepped on a butterfly in the Jurassic period and came back to people who looked like pigs and spoke a weird language of gutteral sounds.


I missed that one...

Leonidas 04-15-2010 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925896)
There was that Twilight Zone one where the guy stepped on a butterfly in the Jurassic period and came back to people who looked like pigs and spoke a weird language of gutteral sounds.

That's what I'm talking about. It would suck to come back to the present and find that I couldn't understand what my wife was talking about because she spoke in a way I couldn't understand anything she was....oh, wait. Okay, who stepped on the damn butterfly?

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 09:19 AM

Kind of like when my wife had her cataract surgery. I was so happy she didn't say, "Oh, Gee, you're way less handsome than I remembered you." But she did say, "I thought we had a brownish lab retriever, not a white-ish one."

donheff 04-15-2010 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925875)
You are confusing reincarnation with "TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS". In reincarnation, you have a hierarchy of development. Once you are incarnating in the human kingdom, you have passed through the door from the animal kingdom and you can never go back. You can only incarnate as a human. The next kingdom's door is what is called the crucifixion initiation, and once passing that you can never go back to the human kingdom. I can suggest some reading: THE RAYS AND THE INITIATIONS by Alice A. Bailey.

I thought the traditional eastern versions of reincarnation based the follow-on instantiation on karma. If your Karma is bad enough you could end up as Gregor Samsa's Bug. No guarantee to move ever upward.

ziggy29 04-15-2010 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud (Post 925897)
Boy is this way off the OP...

Wouldn't be e-r.org if it were any other way. :)

HsiaoChu 04-15-2010 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff (Post 925908)
I thought the traditional eastern versions of reincarnation based the follow-on instantiation on karma. If your Karma is bad enough you could end up as Gregor Samsa's Bug. No guarantee to move ever upward.

Well, I can be specific. I am not talking about the exoteric religions, as much as about the underlying Wisdom Schools. There are a number. The one that is most externalized at the moment seems to be the Trans-Himalayan Wisdom School which developed out of the writings of Patanjali around 10,000 years ago. There are exoteric religions whose main goal like most exoteric western religious tradition to control people. There is always a move upward. However, you must meet certain requirements to move on to the next kingdom, and those doors are not always open. Right now the door to the animal kingdom to move into the human kingdom is not open. It won't be open for another 10 million years or so, since two thirds of the 66.666666... billion souls must move into the next kingdom first to make room.

If you want to believe this stuff..... There's so so so much more....if you want to believe this stuff.

Leonidas 04-15-2010 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925917)
Well, I can be specific. I am not talking about the exoteric religions, as much as about the underlying Wisdom Schools. There are a number. The one that is most externalized at the moment seems to be the Trans-Himalayan Wisdom School which developed out of the writings of Patanjali around 10,000 years ago. There are exoteric religions whose main goal like most exoteric western religious tradition to control people. There is always a move upward. However, you must meet certain requirements to move on to the next kingdom, and those doors are not always open. Right now the door to the animal kingdom to move into the human kingdom is not open. It won't be open for another 10 million years or so, since two thirds of the 66.666666... billion souls must move into the next kingdom first to make room.

If you want to believe this stuff..... There's so so so much more....if you want to believe this stuff.

Way too much math and pondering going on for me to subscribe to it. I prefer the simpler version of Karma - "What goes around, comes around."

Bestwifeever 04-15-2010 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925917)
....If you want to believe this stuff..... There's so so so much more....if you want to believe this stuff.

So true. We just had some people over whose families for generations have believed this stuff. But then we realized that there are many groups of people who believe different stuff that others think is unbelievable.

samclem 04-15-2010 12:21 PM

For those interested in a fun take on the afterlife, and the important things in the only life everyone agrees that we're guaranteed (this one) , I recommend the movie "Defending Your Life." I saw it about 15 years ago and still remember it well.
Dailymotion - Defending Your Life (1991) - a Film & TV video

clifp 04-15-2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff (Post 925908)
I thought the traditional eastern versions of reincarnation based the follow-on instantiation on karma. If your Karma is bad enough you could end up as Gregor Samsa's Bug. No guarantee to move ever upward.


That was my understanding of how it worked also. But I'll defer to Z's obvious expertise in the subject. Although, I am quite sure that my sister's cats are better off than the bottom billion humans in the world. :flowers:

donheff 04-15-2010 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 925917)
If you want to believe this stuff..... There's so so so much more....if you want to believe this stuff.

No thanks. But on the off chance that it has any validity I prefer a version where a true evil doer can end up a bug :)

bbbamI 04-15-2010 08:48 PM

I was out of town for a few days. I've got a lot of catchin' up to do. :blink:

Alan 04-15-2010 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbbamI (Post 926156)
I was out of town for a few days. I've got a lot of catchin' up to do. :blink:

Thought I hadn't seen you around - welcome back :greetings10:

DivinDave 04-15-2010 09:18 PM

When will puppy's start demanding equal time.

On the public pension issue, I'm just sorry I was such a sucker to stay in the private sector. (Youngsters take note!)

Rustic23 04-16-2010 06:39 AM

Yes, Youngsters take note, you can also take note that if you were a geologist in the mid 60's you would have found it tough to get a job, and law degrees are not a lucrative as they use to be. Hindsight is golden. I would make no bet that what is seen as the fat public pension will be around for those planing to retire in 30 or 40 years. The sage advice 'If you want something done, do it yourself' still holds true. Retirement is not something you can let others take care of for you. Weather it is private or public, you must take and interest and control of your own future.

bbbamI 04-16-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 926161)
Thought I hadn't seen you around - welcome back :greetings10:

Ahhhh thank you. :flowers: I went on a fun-filled trip to see the family. :whistling:

Oh, and we have a pension and two kitties. Just might have a BLT for lunch.

REWahoo 04-16-2010 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbbamI (Post 926283)
Just might have a BLT for lunch.

Please post a pic.

bbbamI 04-16-2010 11:17 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 926284)
Please post a pic.

Ask...and ye shall receive...:coolsmiley:

Alan 04-16-2010 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbbamI (Post 926283)
Ahhhh thank you. :flowers: I went on a fun-filled trip to see the family. :whistling:

Oh, and we have a pension and two kitties. Just might have a BLT for lunch.

Brilliant - and thanks for the pic of the BLT, it looks yummy ;D

I got the first payment of my 3rd pension this week - it feels good!! I am well diversified when it comes to pensions (all private) :) - Pension 1 is paid into our bank in the UK, pensions 2 and 3 are US pensions paid in $, and I have a 4th pension (in the UK) which I am deferring until I'm 65 as it continues to grow (it is the only one that is COLA'ed).

HsiaoChu 04-17-2010 09:44 AM

Love this Place
 
I love E-R.O. :clap: Its the reason why I've amassed so many posts in such a short time.:smitten: I express a concern about a certain kind of thread, and instead of being roundly attacked, I get opinions, suggestions...... and then the conversation in true James Joyce fashion transits to discussions of bacon and kittens as well as reincarnation.:2funny:

And to top it all off, even though there was no origininal mention of it in the post to begin with, most everyone on that thread read the concern here, and the continuing discussion on pensions ALMOST IMMEDIATELY got gentler and less confrontive for anyone with a public pension.:crazy:

E-R.org is amazing.:dance: I wish I would have had this kind of clientele when I was running a forum. It sure would have made my days easier to deal with.

Z:flowers:

ERD50 04-17-2010 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 926751)
and instead of being roundly attacked,

If you don't think you were being attacked, maybe you need to re-read some of the posts. Perhaps I was they were too subtle :rofl:

Quote:

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY got gentler and less confrontive for anyone with a public pension.:crazy:
I've been busy! It has turned colder outside, maybe I can get back to those threads now ;)

Seriously though, I don't think there was much confrontation at all, I think you read that into it. Seriously, not being satirical.

There is a HUGE difference between:

A) people who have seen their own benefits cut not wanting to have their taxes raised so that no public pensioner ever experiences any cut whatsoever, and

B) saying that those people don't 'deserve' their pension.

I think you have sometimes melded the two together.

-ERD50

Leonidas 04-17-2010 09:58 AM

Give us a chance man, we'll gore one of your sacred oxen soon enough!

Actually, you've just figured this place out. Other than a few semi-trolls everybody here gets along pretty well. We will still disagree, sometimes even a tad less than civilly, but that's life.

And there's always the ignore button. I'm not like some people, whose names I won't mention, with the population of a small village on ignore. But the few folks whose posts I no longer see are there because things they say just fire me up. Why waste what precious life is left to me getting pissed at some stranger on the net?

HsiaoChu 04-17-2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 (Post 926758)
If you don't think you were being attacked, maybe you need to re-read some of the posts. Perhaps I was they were too subtle :rofl:


A) people who have seen their own benefits cut not wanting to have their taxes raised so that no public pensioner ever experiences any cut whatsoever, and

B) saying that those people don't 'deserve' their pension.

I think you have sometimes melded the two together.

-ERD50

You and Alan Greenspan!

But seriously, we have our "buttons". I have a pretty low tolerance for being attacked generally, but if I'm having a bad day, then I can easily meld things together.

Generally the time of PSSA's is not a good time of year for me. This is the time when PA for 4 weeks straight tests every child in grades 3, 4, & 5 in in public elementary schools with these tests. As a school counselor, this should only affect my ability to see kids during this time, but for me its quite different. I can't see anyone since I'm personally responsible for organizing the tests for about 400 students, training staff, providing test security etc. I'm locked into these stupid tests from 3 weeks before the testing to a month during the testing, and to a week after the testing. A loss of about 2 months of time from my real job. And the consequence for even one tiny violation of the process or heaven forbid actually losing a test is the loss of license to be a school counselor. And the state has monitors who visit districts looking for even tiny little violations of the rules. And there are hundreds of accommodations and rules and stuff. Its an incredible logistical nightmare. I'm good at logistics, but its a Murphy's Law type nightmare, and one has to cover every possible scenario. Last year we almost lost a test because we never accounted for the thought that one of our students would actually steal one of the tests. During an altercation in the one of the special small group settings, a student grabbed one of the tests from a box the teacher had on her desk and stuffed it in an empty desk and then stuffed books after it. Teacher only found it by an extensive search of the room.

I get very very edgy during this time period. Its the only time of year I actually have to take Zantac. I have about 1/2 of the process to go this year, and only one more time---next year. And next year there will not be the loss of my certificate holding over my head because I'm retiring. After 40 years of working in school based mental health services, I never want to do it again in this life.

So i look forward to being gored!

But after that people will probably be cooking marshmellows over a fire, or maybe I'll actually be the marshmallow!!https://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kw...bpc7o1_400.jpg


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.