Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community

Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/)
-   Other topics (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/)
-   -   AWD car (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/awd-car-52578.html)

F4mandolin 10-13-2010 01:28 PM

AWD car
 
Back into daydreaming mode again about cars. I had kind of been thinking about the Subaru Outback and Forester....kind of think the Outback is a little more than I want to spend. Tested both last summer and liked both. Also tested the Hyundai elantra touring which I liked, but that was fwd......still thinking about it. Guess I am just looking for some other cars that I haven't considered. Requirements: dependable, 27+mpg highway or better, under $25K, fair amount of room for dog/recumbent bicycle/stuff but not too big. I am kind of biased against US brands, even though that is slowly changing in recent years since it looks like the reliability has risen on a lot of models. Right now....
*Subaru forester (not turbo)
*Suzuki SX4-kind of small, but AWD cheap
*CR-V- but wife had trouble getting up in it

FinanceDude 10-13-2010 01:45 PM

You can't go wrong with the Forester..........:)

Lakedog 10-13-2010 01:50 PM

Honda Element is what I bought in 2007 after driving the ones you mentioned and several others. Much more open feel and more cargo room -- back seats come out or flip up to the side. The best fit for me with more headroom for a tall person, plus it is ideal for dogs (roomy with no carpet in rear) and bikes (can transport a large frame bike inside without removing the front wheel). After 3.5 years, I still really like this vehicle. The mileage has been good as well, 24-25 around town and as high as 30 on longer trips, and I have the 4wd EX model. Many folks do not like the look but the Element is great for an active lifestyle (and dogs).

MichaelB 10-13-2010 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude (Post 987419)
You can't go wrong with the Forester..........:)

+1. AWD by the folks that do it for a living, not one line. Consumer reports
Quote:

The Forester is among the best small SUVs. Its cabin is quiet, with very good fit and finish and a roomy backseat. Safety equipment includes standard curtain air bags and stability control, and crash-test results are excellent. It has the most comfortable ride of any small SUV yet also has agile and secure handling

Moemg 10-13-2010 02:30 PM

I bought the CRV in August . I liked the Subaru but I liked the looks of the CRV better and it's been a great car . Great gas mileage ,nice ride and big enough to haul lots of things without being too big . I bought the EX model and walked out of the dealers under $25,000 including taxes ,registration & all fees .

Purron 10-13-2010 02:58 PM

Love my Forester:)

mh 10-13-2010 03:10 PM

+1 on the element. i have had 0 problems with mine.

CCdaCE 10-13-2010 04:09 PM

Considered a Chevy Equinox? I don't really think of it as a car, but it has AWD, starts at $22k something, new. 32 MPG highway supposedly. I like the one we have at work, but prefer Subaru's AWD system and clearance more.

-CC

Charlotte 10-13-2010 06:37 PM

I have an AWD Honda CR-V, and my sister has the exact same car except no AWD (copycat!). I totally love my CR-V - it is fun to drive, easy to navigate and park, has great crash ratings, adequate storage and all that good stuff.

I will tell you, though, that when I compared mpg with my sister, I learned that my AWD vehicle gets about 3-4 mpg worse mileage. It's a heavier vehicle due to the AWD components, and apparantly AWD just takes more gas to run, so the mileage takes a hit. I average about 24-25 mpg around town, maybe 28 on the highway. My sister's regular CR-V gets 28 around town and 31-32 on the highway. I wish I'd known about that before I bought the car, because I might have skipped the AWD... (and that way I'd have a better excuse to stay home on snow days, too)...

All the same, I love the car, and highly recommend test driving one to try it out.

Charlotte

Emeritus 10-13-2010 06:43 PM

We have had 3 Subarus. Both '96 legacy sedans are still running (owned by others)
We have a 2003 Outback that has 70,000 miles and never needed a repair
DW M.D. really wanted an AWD and they were absolutely reliable. However if you are tall, they are cramped
Mechanicals are the same as the Forester

RunningBum 10-13-2010 07:54 PM

I've never driven one, but doesn't a Toyota RAV4 meet or at least come close?

aaronc879 10-13-2010 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum (Post 987600)
I've never driven one, but doesn't a Toyota RAV4 meet or at least come close?

The RAV4 grew too much for my tastes. I'd prefer the CRV or Forester. I have a Forester now and a Forester will likely be my next vehicle.

Koolau 10-14-2010 12:30 AM

My experience with AWD was with a Subaru with on-demand 4wd so maybe not comparable to current AWD cars. Still, I found that FWD was nearly always as good as 4WD UNLESS snow was deep enough to build up under the car. At that point, switching to 4WD gave slightly better traction until the build up got worse. Overall, 4WD gave me about 1" more snow to deal with and then all bets were off.

SO, I've never been a big fan of full time AWD as it isn't needed for most applications but costs 2 - 4 mpg all the time.

Of course, YMMV, heh, heh.:laugh:

F4mandolin 10-14-2010 12:31 AM

Last summer when I was back in the Spokane area I tested both the Subaru's, Honda CR-V+Fit(I have the UK version which I like) and the Hyundai Elantra Touring. Kind of crossed the RAV4 off the list because of the tailgate, although it isn't that big of a deal. The Equinox I probably should have looked at, certainly read a lot of reviews.....I am still just a little put off by US brands....if for no other reason than they have always been so damn ugly and boring looking compared to European models (in my opinion). Reliability for Ford etc has really seemed to improve in recent years. The Honda Element I liked when it came out, but with AWD it will likely come in over the $25K limit. What I thought of the tests last summer:
*CR-V- can't complain about the reliability...it's a proven model. I was ok on it by my wife had to climb up into it.
*Fit- only drove the automatic and really didn't like it. I really like the Jazz I have here, but on the big open roads in Spokane it just didn't feel good.
*Hyundai Touring- loved it. The right size, nice drive, good mpg, well under $20K, up and coming brand. Not AWD.
*Outback- only tried the 2.5 CVT. Could live with it, but just a hair sluggish and the ride reminded me of an old Oldsmobile Cutless Supreme with worn out shocks I bought from relatives 20+ years ago. Nice comfy ride though and am still thinking about it. Pushing the $ limit. The 3.6 smashed the limit.
*Forester- liked it. Felt snappier than the Outback and I like a simpler dashboard. Just wish they would come out with a new automatic transmission (5-6speed?) that would improve mpg a hair.

Still thinking about buying used, but the Sub's resale is so high it isn't much cheaper than buying new.

As far as I can see right now it is between the Forester and the Hyundai. Although I just keep waffling between several cars driving my wife nuts talking about it. Problem over here is I can't go down and test these cars easily.

brewer12345 10-14-2010 05:52 AM

I have a 2003 Legacy wagon that has been absolutely bulletproof. Over 140k of punishment and it still runs like a top. The newer models are roomier and cushier (and they only make the wagon as an Outback). Excellent in nasty weather. Within a month of buying the car, we got to see what a wonder the AWD was when a blizzard hit badly enough to shut all the highways and strand us with a few too many relatives (being able to make that liquor run was priceless).

If it ever dies, I will buy another Subaru. I would want to always have one in the driveway in addition to whatever hulking monster we use for towing and kid/dog hauling.

F4mandolin 10-14-2010 05:59 AM

Just as a little side note...I get a little too focused sometimes on MPG. Just for the heck of it I checked some $ numbers on gas use. If I drive 15000 miles a year....the difference between a car that averages 25mpg and 30mpg....$100 a year (at $3 a gal). Not enough to really make it a big deal breaker either way. My wife has pretty well just told me to get whatever I want and stop driving her nuts....

CCdaCE 10-14-2010 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4mandolin (Post 987678)
Just as a little side note...I get a little too focused sometimes on MPG. Just for the heck of it I checked some $ numbers on gas use. If I drive 15000 miles a year....the difference between a car that averages 25mpg and 30mpg....$100 a year (at $3 a gal). Not enough to really make it a big deal breaker either way. My wife has pretty well just told me to get whatever I want and stop driving her nuts....


Eh? More like $300, but still, maybe not a deal breaker.

15000/25*$3= $1800
15000/30*$3= $1500

-CC

F4mandolin 10-14-2010 08:11 AM

Aaaarg! I knew it looked low when I did it, I was too lazy to go back and double check. Luckily it wasn't for a grade.....

yakers 10-14-2010 11:01 AM

I like Subarus, older son has one and put one of their engines in an 85 VW camper when we had it. But we have come to really love our Jeeps. While there have a reputation for less reliability that has not been our experience. I have 80K miles on an 06 Jeep Liberty Diesel and it has been flawless. Younger son drives an old 98 Cherokee with 150K miles and older son also has a Jeep Grand Cherokee as well as his Subaru. Our Jeep rides well, has 2 WD as well as full or part time 4WD. We sometimes tow a small travel trailer and hardly notice it is there. But the key for this is if you expect really bad weather (like Alaska or some northern parts of the US) or ever go off road you really want to consider a Jeep, as nice as the AWDs are they are like bringing a knife to a gun fight in serious conditions.

aaronc879 10-14-2010 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakers (Post 987806)
I like Subarus, older son has one and put one of their engines in an 85 VW camper when we had it. But we have come to really love our Jeeps. While there have a reputation for less reliability that has not been our experience. I have 80K miles on an 06 Jeep Liberty Diesel and it has been flawless. Younger son drives an old 98 Cherokee with 150K miles and older son also has a Jeep Grand Cherokee as well as his Subaru. Our Jeep rides well, has 2 WD as well as full or part time 4WD. We sometimes tow a small travel trailer and hardly notice it is there. But the key for this is if you expect really bad weather (like Alaska or some northern parts of the US) or ever go off road you really want to consider a Jeep, as nice as the AWDs are they are like bringing a knife to a gun fight in serious conditions.


I would have to disagree. I had a 98 Jeep Cherokee Sport and it wasn't as good in snow as my '04 Forester

Emeritus 10-14-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 (Post 987675)
I have a 2003 Legacy wagon that has been absolutely bulletproof..

Very handy if you live in New Jersey
:greetings10::greetings10::greetings10:

brewer12345 10-14-2010 12:33 PM

Nah, one of these would be better in Newark or Camden: https://www.jankel.com/pdf/JANKEL_HILUX_UK_STOCK.pdf

cj 10-14-2010 12:35 PM

Love, love, love our CRV. But we also looked at both of the Subarus. They sure get good ratings everywhere you look. We used to have an older RAV, and the side-load tailgate was a pain. We would never again get one like that. Interesting what Lakedog said about the Element. I could see how that would be great for dogs!!

ERD50 10-14-2010 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F4mandolin (Post 987699)
Aaaarg! I knew it looked low when I did it, I was too lazy to go back and double check. Luckily it wasn't for a grade.....

So now, just for 'fun', we can do the calculations again and compare 20MPG to 25MPG - same 5MPG difference, right?

15000/25*$3= $1800
15000/30*$3= $1500 is a $300 delta

15000/20*$3= $2250
15000/25*$3= $1800 is a $450 delta

heh, heh - law of diminishing returns as you increase MPG, but most people don't 'get' that. I did hear a EPA rep mention that he wanted to switch to "gallons per thousand miles" and "$ per thousand miles" or something similar. Makes it so much easier to compare any two vehicles, and to see how much you save by cutting out miles.

And 30MPG to 35MPG...

15000/30*$3= $1500
15000/35*$3= $1286 is a $214 delta

Or how about doubling your mileage from 40MPG to 80MPG - should be a big savings with such great mileage, right?

15000/40*$3= $1125
15000/80*$3= $562 is a $562 delta

pretty good, but double the MPG of a 15MPG car, and...

15000/15*$3= $3000
15000/30*$3= $1500 is a $1500 delta - 3x the savings as going from 40MPG to 80MPG.

-ERD50

Koolau 10-14-2010 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 (Post 987850)

I did hear a EPA rep mention that he wanted to switch to "gallons per thousand miles" and "$ per thousand miles" or something similar. Makes it so much easier to compare any two vehicles, and to see how much you save by cutting out miles.

-ERD50

MPG is better for "bragging rights" don'tcha know.




But, of course, YMMV.

F4mandolin 10-14-2010 02:20 PM

Ahhh, if they would only bring back the 1971 Datsun pickup I used to have. Best vehicle I ever had. 30mpg highway, actually useful, even I could do minor repairs under the hood.........and until the small pickups became "not small"...cost under $10K.

freebird5825 10-14-2010 05:00 PM

I love my 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee AWD, but it miserably fails your fuel economy requirements.
I use it for winter driving, towing my boat, dual dog transport, and saving myself delivery fees. It is also very useful for grabbing free items by the side of the road for friends in need of cheap furniture. ;D

rescueme 10-14-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird5825 (Post 987954)
I love my 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee AWD, but it miserably fails your fuel economy requirements.

I have the same situation with my '05 SRX.

Under normal circumstances, it would not be a vehicle I would consider. By normal, I mean still wor*ing or using for long-distance travel.

I needed a vehicle that would be able to get me through the snow to do my volunteer work (meals-on-wheels), provide seating for at least four adults (two of us are needed for the route, but we often take along two others since we help train new folks).

Additionally, we need room for a large cooler, hot bag (for hot meals), and additional room for frozen (weekend) meals. Along with ease of access (flip up back gate). I did test drive a Subaru Forrester but it didn't meet my requirements, even though in other circumstances, I would certainly consider it.

Since I only put a bit over 4k on the vehicle annually the three years I've had it (since retirement), the fuel issue is really not an issue, in this case.

BTW, I work*d with a guy who had a Subaru (don't know which model) and he said it was better than his 4-WD (not AWD) in snow. He felt that it was due to the narrow tires that would not build up the snow in the tire's path. I have no idea if that makes sense, but I thought I'd just throw it out...

NervousNellie 10-14-2010 05:51 PM

We have two CRV's and I love both of them. What I like about them is that for me they are easy to get in/out especially when compared to my getting in/out of our Civic! :laugh:

happy2bretired 10-15-2010 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NervousNellie (Post 987987)
We have two CRV's and I love both of them. What I like about them is that for me they are easy to get in/out especially when compared to my getting in/out of our Civic! :laugh:

One thing I miss about my old Isuzu SUV was I would just kinda slide down out of it when getting out. Now with my Civic...takes a little ummph to get out. It's a little too low to the ground for almost 60 me.:blush:

TooFrugal 10-15-2010 11:33 AM

Quote:

Back into daydreaming mode again about cars. I had kind of been thinking about the Subaru Outback and Forester....kind of think the Outback is a little more than I want to spend.
We have an Outback and love it. We got the bigger engine and it is really zippy. We test drove the Forester and liked those, as well. We may get a Forester the next car we need to replace.

Subarus have great safety ratings -
IIHS vehicle ratings

and they also have great repair records and are on the more economical end in the realm of car prices.

If you need it for the snow the repair technician at the dealer told me not to bother with cables even for the mountains. He said at the checkpoints they always just waive the Subarus on through.

FinanceDude 10-15-2010 11:42 AM

I know the Subie folks will bristle at this, but Subies are not known for their awesome gas mileage.........and some of them need premium fuel to run right........

That being said, DW has an 84 GL-10 that she tried to kill but it refused to die.........:)

BigNick 10-15-2010 11:52 AM

I'm very happy with my new Hyundai iX35. I got the 4WD model which has 2WD by default; 4WD kicks in if you lose traction, or you can lock 50/50 front/rear power with a button.

If I wanted full-time 4WD I'd probably go for the Subaru, especially if I paid US prices for gas. At $7.50 a gallon, we look extra-close at mileage over here (although Subaru still sells the 3.6-litre version of the Outback in Germany).

bruce1 10-16-2010 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird5825 (Post 987954)
I love my 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee AWD, but it miserably fails your fuel economy requirements.
I use it for winter driving, towing my boat, dual dog transport, and saving myself delivery fees. It is also very useful for grabbing free items by the side of the road for friends in need of cheap furniture. ;D

My old 98 Explorer 4X4 at 270,000 K has the same advantages / disadvantages / uses. Except for the boat.

F4mandolin 10-16-2010 08:03 AM

Well......now my latest plan (changes day by day). Buy a cheap car for the first year. The Forester (I think) is going to get a transmission update in the next year or two and I am hoping they will either throw a 5 speed automatic in it or the CVT. The 5 speed would be fine with me, likely up the mileage by a couple mpg. Wonder what my plan will be next week........


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.