Blood Pressure and Age

[imoldernu]

In case you haven't noticed, optimum blood pressure recommendations have changed over the past several years... particularly with regard to age...

Since this involves so many variables, I won't link a website, bus suggest looking at the NIH, WEBMD and the American Heart Association, for recent articles on the subject. The optimum levels are used for determining whether or not to treat with medication.

My reason for bringing this up, is a recent decision to reduce the level of my own medication. At age 80, the same medication that brought my blood pressure down to normal at age 55, (from 155/90)... now brings the pressure down to 110/60 or less. While my previous doctor though this was good, my current doctor had me read about the new guidelines. I am convinced that this is too low, and have reduced the medication by more than half. Already I feel more energy, and alertness. My thinking is that higher blood pressure is necessary to pump blood to the brain and extremities.

Yes... I know... nothing is as simple as that, but after reading in some detail, some of the recent medical articles (since 2014)... it seems that the subject has undergone the old "one size fits all" theory, and that age and physical differences may be more important than previously believed. The other part of this is not just BP, but the long term negative effects of controlling medications.

Might be worth looking at the newer recommendations.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Interesting. I have found that sometimes meds they prescribe for something else raise my BP alot. For instance, I have an infection and they put me on an antibiotic. Well after 4 days I had a splitting headache so took my BP and saw that it was 165/93 while I was sitting and knitting. So I looked up the side effects and that was it. Mine can vary a lot. It can be 100/70 or 130/80 otherwise I would look into cutting down my meds. They do sap your energy.

 

[audreyh1]

I read about the new guidelines of not treating BP unless it exceeds 150 for persons 60 or older. One of the issues was that by that age folks are taking a lot of other medications anyway and there is too much interaction.

I've managed to get my BP to routinely be below 110/70 when measured at home. And usually it's not too bad (low 120s) in the doctor's office although sometimes I get high readings which is why I regularly monitor at home.

 

[razztazz]

Yes, Low Blood pressure uber alles as "heart healthy" has been shown to be snafu. I heard that starting about 10 or so years ago. But I'm sure it has made many millions of unearned dollars for some businesses and their associated people.

Blood pressure tends to track age as does cholesterol. There's a reason these things creep up as we age.

 

[audreyh1]

It's shocking to me how many medicines folks take in their 80s and 90s. At Dad's assisted living, they go around with their cart several times a day giving out medications.

I just wonder - at some age, can't a patient say enough already? If you make it past 80 or 85 - why all this preventative stuff? Seems like there should be a way to gradually wean off this stuff to a minimum, or none if possible. Is taking certain medicines for decades making older people feel worse than they might?

Somehow Dad managed to avoid the routine "forever" prescriptions. He does take supplements and baby aspirin. At some point (in his 70s?) a doc tried to put him on cholesterol medication, but he said no way, even though he has a heart disease history. He's probably made sure to stick with non-aggressive doctors. He has made it past 86, so he has done something right.

 

[MichaelB]

It's shocking to me how many medicines folks take in their 80s and 90s. At Dad's assisted living, they go around with their cart several times a day giving out medications.

I just wonder - at some age, can't a patient say enough already? If you make it past 80 or 85 - why all this preventative stuff? Seems like there should be a way to gradually wean off this stuff to a minimum, or none if possible. Is taking certain medicines for decades making older people feel worse than they might?

Somehow Dad managed to avoid the routine "forever" prescriptions. He does take supplements and baby aspirin. At some point (in his 70s?) a doc tried to put him on cholesterol medication, but he said no way, even though he has a heart disease history. He's probably made sure to stick with non-aggressive doctors. He has made it past 86, so he has done something right.

I couldn't agree more. Med time at the assisted living is truly something to see. In the year and a half that my DM has been in one three new meds have been added, including BP, which is somewhat elevated due to another med she started taking a couple of years ago. Even worse, the facility chooses the pharmacy.

 

[W2R]

I just wonder - at some age, can't a patient say enough already? If you make it past 80 or 85 - why all this preventative stuff?

Sure. My mother's doctor took her off a lot of her medications once she reached 90. At first I was concerned, but then she said, "Do you really think I need cholesterol lowering medications at my age?" and I had to admit that was a very good point.


I would guess that a lot of doctors bring up that topic with their older patients, although I don't really know.

 

[MRG]

This is very timely for me. Thank you for opening my eyes.

I turn 60 this weekend and my BP has been causing fits. I was on BP meds since '92. In '15, after losing weight it was normal(120/80). When with my PCP's advice I went off meds. Then some 130/80's over the next year and a half.

Now I just did a 150/100 in the docs office and at home. Back on BP meds. Since then I've had a few 150/100 episodes but nobody else is concerned! I guess I should not care if the docs don't.

EXCEPT: Why do I feel like my head is going to explode when my BP is over 140/90 ? Why? Doc says I can't feel BP, EMTS said otherwise?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Mine is good if it is below 135/85. Seems to be my norm at 63. I have suffered with HBP for 30 Years. I adjust my meds as needed. Doc changed them about a month ago and now it is ~120/80. I am very happy with that. I DREAM of being below 120/80. DW is 108/70 on a bad day. But I am a worry wart, especially lately with the healthcare prospects. So worried we will not be able to afford it next year if/when the subsidies go away.

 

[Chuckanut]

I



Somehow Dad managed to avoid the routine "forever" prescriptions. He does take supplements and baby aspirin. At some point (in his 70s?) a doc tried to put him on cholesterol medication, but he said no way, even though he has a heart disease history. He's probably made sure to stick with non-aggressive doctors. He has made it past 86, so he has done something right.

A few years ago a new cholesterol calculator came online. I put in my numbers and got the results. I should take a statin. Then I played around changing the numbers until I was the picture of great health. It still wanted me to take a statin. Apparently after one passed the age of 63, it recommended a statin no matter how good your numbers are. It must have been Big Pharma's dream calculator. Millions of otherwise healthy people taking a drug just because of their age. Not so good

 

[razztazz]

A few years ago a new cholesterol calculator came online. I put in my numbers and got the results. I should take a statin. Then I played around changing the numbers until I was the picture of great health. It still wanted me to take a statin. Apparently after one passed the age of 63, it recommended a statin no matter how good your numbers are. It must have been Big Pharma's dream calculator. Millions of otherwise healthy people taking a drug just because of their age. Not so good

Not only that but ever cholesterol test I ahve ever had used a "reference range" of 0-(fill in max here)

That's ZEE-RO! The only way you can manage zero cholesterol is if you can also manage being dead. As if ZEE-RO cholestero,wer perfectly normal and healthy. Take lipitor every g/d day for 30,40,50 yrs to "lower" your "risk" of heart attack. Don't worry it's safe.

But don't eat eggs. They're bad for you

 

[ls99]

IMHO these guidelines ae designed with big pharma's intersts in profits.

Artifically lowering BP to the low of current guidelines guarantees inhibition of power output, hence the feeling of well being. For me unless for some reason my BP would linger around 170/90 I would not even consider meds to lower pressure.

Luckily at 69 my resting BP floats around 128/70. With hard workout I can push it to well beyond 180 systole.

Cholesterol, Triglycerides are all high, and I intend to keep them that way. Refuse meds for lowering them.

 

[street]

I had a thread a while back on who takes their BP etc. At that time I did some research and also found that the numbers have changed as people get older. I do check mine about 3 or 4 times a week. I just checked mine and it was 124/84 and at 60 have been pretty good with my BP.

W2R >>> when my mother reached 90 her Doctor also took her off of a cholesterol pill and I also believe her BP pill also. She then took a baby aspirin each day. I also take a baby aspirin most days also.

I'm not a believer in pills but I also know they have their purpose when needed.

 

[audreyh1]

This is very timely for me. Thank you for opening my eyes.

I turn 60 this weekend and my BP has been causing fits. I was on BP meds since '92. In '15, after losing weight it was normal(120/80). When with my PCP's advice I went off meds. Then some 130/80's over the next year and a half.

Now I just did a 150/100 in the docs office and at home. Back on BP meds. Since then I've had a few 150/100 episodes but nobody else is concerned! I guess I should not care if the docs don't.

EXCEPT: Why do I feel like my head is going to explode when my BP is over 140/90 ? Why? Doc says I can't feel BP, EMTS said otherwise?

Well, I've been asked if I have a headache if I get a high reading at the doctor's office. A different doc from the example below, but I normally got a read in the 120s at that office, and one day I guess I was anxious about the test results, systolic was around 150, and the nurse was concerned and asked if I had a headache.

Something happens to me when I get up from the waiting room to walk to the nurses room/station. My heart starts pounding. Then they sit you down and immediately take the BP. I then know my BP is going to read high because my pulse is elevated. It seems to happen more or less depending on the specific doctor's office, so there is definitely something Pavlovian going on. Certain doctors make me more anxious.

Interesting thing happened to me at the last visit. Walk to the office, stand on scale, sit down, attach machine to read BP. My heart is pounding. The machine read an error. The nurse went through the history interview, then tried the machine again. I noticed my heart was no longer pounding and I felt more relaxed. The machine read 123/67. Probably as good as I ever see in that particular doctor's office. Next time it's high I may request a redo after we complete the interview, but those poor nurses are so rushed.

Fortunately for my GP it's always been reasonable in her office.

So one reason I track my history at home is so I can show a concerned doctor or nurse my history - as well as know for myself that it is OK. It has dropped over the past two years - had crept up to high 120s/130s, and now usually below 110/75. A combination of losing a little weight, getting some vitamin deficiencies addressed, and hormone balance I think.

 

[audreyh1]

A few years ago a new cholesterol calculator came online. I put in my numbers and got the results. I should take a statin. Then I played around changing the numbers until I was the picture of great health. It still wanted me to take a statin. Apparently after one passed the age of 63, it recommended a statin no matter how good your numbers are. It must have been Big Pharma's dream calculator. Millions of otherwise healthy people taking a drug just because of their age. Not so good

Dad's recommendation was before those recent new guidelines, but yes, I know for men that one you reach a certain age they indicated a statin. Once you get to 75, you get to not take them again.

DH has amazing cholesterol numbers. He'll be 62 this year. It will be interesting to see what happens when he turns 63 next year. Actually - I'm not too worried. His GP was crowing over his fantastic numbers last year, I don't think she'll do a 180 next year.

 

[braumeister]

at some age, can't a patient say enough already?

That's what my mom did.
She was grousing one day about all the dietary advice she was getting, and I said "Mom, you're 90 years old. You can eat whatever the hell you want."

She was so delighted with that, she made it a point to tell everyone that her son had given her permission to eat what she wanted, and was happy as a clam. Next time she saw the doc, she told him she didn't want any more prescriptions, either (she was just on a mild BP med).

Seems to have worked; she made it over six more years without problems.

 

[braumeister]

Something happens to me when I get up from the waiting room to walk to the nurses room/station. My heart starts pounding. Then they sit you down and immediately take the BP. I then know my BP is going to read high because my pulse is elevated.

Me, too.
When they sit me down (right after the weigh-in) and start to attach the cuff, I always ask them to do that last and take the history, temperature, etc. first. Sometimes they will, other times they just say "This is our standard procedure" and go ahead.

When that happens, I always mention it to the doc, and the response is generally "Well, they're very busy but don't worry about it. I'll take it again now." So it wastes not only the nurse's time but also the doc's.

 

[athena53]

DH also had elevated BP when they measured it at the doctor's office and BP at a reasonable level when taken at home. He called it "white coat syndrome".

I don't remember mine but they always admire it at the blood bank because it's so low, but not low enough to throw me out. It has its drawbacks. Last time I donated platelets they decided to collect a pint of whole blood, too because my hemoglobin was so pretty (I'm post-menopausal and cook with cast iron). That night I got up to use the bathroom and rose to a standing position a little too quickly. Next thing I knew I was on the floor. Not even a bruise, thank God.

Meds- yeah, they pretty much do have "guidelines" that imply everyone over 60 or so should be on statins. I'm avoiding them. Bad cholesterol is high but so is good cholesterol. Last Christmas I was visiting my SIL who had made cookies from Mom's recipe and she suggested I take some cookies back for Dad when I drove Dad back to his place. I said no at first- "he'd just eat them". Then I realized Dad was 86, still went out for a (slow) walk every day and had pretty good health habits. I took a half dozen. They disappeared over the next 2 days and I didn't have any. I'm glad Dad enjoyed them. If it hastens the day he joins my dear Mother in eternal life, so be it.

 

[Chuckanut]

She was so delighted with that, she made it a point to tell everyone that her son had given her permission to eat what she wanted, and was happy as a clam. Next time she saw the doc, she told him she didn't want any more prescriptions, either (she was just on a mild BP med).

Seems to have worked; she made it over six more years without problems.

My mother used to take a 'nip' of the Southern Comfort before going to bed to help her sleep. Sometimes if she was awake at night, she would take another nip. A relative who used to work in a hospital got very upset about that claiming that the 89 year old woman was becoming an alcoholic. One day when a nurse was checking her out on a routine house call, we asked her about the 'nips' of Southern Comfort. Her reply, "She's almost 90. Is this about making her feel better or your relative feel better?" We got the point.

 

[MRG]

I thought I knew all the rules about taking my BP at home. Sit upright, feet flat, 5 minutes..... I musta forgot to wait a while(5 minutes?) before retaking in the same arm. Despite the RN telling me the second reading will be higher, mine has always been lower. When we did it together it was a draw.

Surprises me how much discrepancy there was between readings. The nurse had a wrist band that measured 136/85. I used my Ormon arm model and it was 165/94. She got a 150/90 in the other arm and I did similar a few minutes later. So is my BP high? I have no idea. Actually I do, it depends. On what I have no idea.

 

[audreyh1]

Wow!

I have my Omron BP786 set to do an average of three readings, 30 seconds apart. I sit quietly for 5 minutes then run it.

I use my left (non-dominant) arm.

Since my weekly (or sometimes twice weekly) readings remain in a pretty close band (within 10), I don't worry about variation.

I usually take it mid-morning, but not always. Sometime later in the day at various times. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

I just make sure I haven't eaten anything recently, and if I need to use the restroom do so before taking the reading.

 

[Tree-dweller]

I thought I knew all the rules about taking my BP at home. Sit upright, feet flat, 5 minutes..... I musta forgot to wait a while(5 minutes?) before retaking in the same arm. Despite the RN telling me the second reading will be higher, mine has always been lower. When we did it together it was a draw.

Surprises me how much discrepancy there was between readings. The nurse had a wrist band that measured 136/85. I used my Ormon arm model and it was 165/94. She got a 150/90 in the other arm and I did similar a few minutes later. So is my BP high? I have no idea. Actually I do, it depends. On what I have no idea.

I've had the same reflection when having my bp taken during routine health exams. The nurse has never been concerned with my posture/foot placement when taking my bp. It makes me ponder the arbitrary-ness of it all.

 

[MRG]

Wow!

I have my Omron BP786 set to do an average of three readings, 30 seconds apart. I sit quietly for 5 minutes then run it.

I use my left (non-dominant) arm.

Since my weekly (or sometimes twice weekly) readings remain in a pretty close band (within 10), I don't worry about variation.

I usually take it mid-morning, but not always. Sometime later in the day at various times. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

I just make sure I haven't eaten anything recently, and if I need to use the restroom do so before taking the reading.

I know it makes no sense.
Why build a machine that does what you're not supposed to? I'm guessing Ormon knows better than me. I know that I worked with a balance therapist who took my BP manually 20 times in thirty minutes.

I got this from the EMTs who were out last week because of my BP, my PCP'S nurse and the doc. I don't understand. I'm going to read some current literature.

I can reproduce it on my machine, my second reading is generally 20/10 points lower than the first one if it is high. Perhaps something else is occurring?

 

[audreyh1]

I've had the same reflection when having my bp taken during routine health exams. The nurse has never been concerned with my posture/foot placement when taking my bp. It makes me ponder the arbitrary-ness of it all.

I don't think body position is arbitrary at all in terms of taking BP. I think the practice at some doctor's offices is what is arbitrary!

But actually - foot placement is probably no big deal.

It's the - sitting on exam table with no back support and feet dangling that gets me mad - bad practice!

And rushing someone into the office and immediately take BP is not good. Also - making a patient answer questions while the machine is taking BP is not good either!

 

[garyt]

White coat syndrome is very real for some of us. My BP is always high at the Dr.s office but fine at home. I've taken my cuff to the Dr. to compare and they're pretty much the same.
I used to drive for a living and had to get a DOT physical. I had the hardest time trying to pass the bP test. Just knowing I couldn't drive if I didn't pass caused even more anxiety. I finally started taking a xanex before the physical and sailed right through.
I one time had to find a new Dr. due to insurance change. I picked a male dr near me and went for my physical. So I'm in the room in that little gown and in walk two really young ladies. I thought they were nurses at first but then realized they had white coats on. They took my BP and it was something like 190/110! They were going to send me to the hospital. I told them unless one of you is Dr. Steve I think I know the problem. Turns out Dr. Steve was the head of a training facility and all the actual work was done by young residents. They did the exam then came back and retook the BP and it was way down.
Don't get me wrong, I actually have a female Dr. now but I just wasn't expecting it at the time and they were so young it just shocked me, I guess.