Do You Really Like to Travel?

[sengsational]

This post is intended to be thought provoking. Feel free to skip it if you don't have the time or inclination to noodle on weird philosophical crap. The ideas and quote are from a book "Sapiens".

Travel seems like something that is "inter-subjective".

Objective phenomenon is something that exists, whether humans buy-in or not. Like gravity.

Subjective phenomenon is something that exists for one person. That person can change their mind and it's gone.

Inter-Subjective things are things like fiat currencies...we all believe, and because we do, they have value.

Even what people take to be their most personal desires are usually programmed by the imagined order*. Let's consider, for example, the popular desire to to take a holiday abroad. There is nothing natural or obvious about this. A chimpanzee alpha male would never think of using his power in order to go on holiday into the territory of a neighboring chimpanzee band. The elite of ancient Egypt spent their fortunes building pyramids and having their corpses mummified, but none of them thought of going shopping in Babylonia or taking a skiing holiday in Phoenicia. People today spend a great deal of money on holidays abroad because they are true believers in the myths of romantic consumerism.

Romanticism tesll sus that in order to make the most of our human potential we must have as many different experiences as we can. We must open ourselves to a wide spectrum of emotions; we must sample various kinds of relationships; we must try different cuisines; we must learn to appreciate different styles of music. One of the best ways to do all that is to break free from our daily routine, leave behind our familiar setting, and go traveling in distant lands, were here we can 'experience' the culture, the smells, the tastes and the norms of other people. We hear again and again the romantic myths about 'how a new experiences opened my eyes and changed my life'.

Consumerism tells us that in order to be happy we must consume as many products and services as possible. If we feel that something is missing or not quite right, then we probably need to buy a product (a car, new clothes, organic food) or a service (housekeeping, relationship therapy, yoga classes). Every television commercial is another little legent about how consuming some product or service will make life better

Romanticism, which encourages variety, meshes perfectly with consumerism. Their marriage has given birth to the infinite 'market of experiences', on which the modern tourism industry is founded. The tourism industry does not sell flight tickets and hotel bedrooms. It sells experiences. Paris is not a city, nor India a country - they are both experiences, the consumption of which is supposed to widen our horizons, fulfill our human potential, and make us happier. Consequently, when the relationship between a millionaire and his wife is going through a rocky patch, he takes her on an expensive trip to Paris. The trip is not a reflection of some independent desire, but rather of an ardent belief in the myths of romantic consumerism. A wealthy man in ancient Egypt would never have dreamed of solving a relationship crisis by taking his wife on holiday to Babylon. Instead, he might have built for her the sumptuous tomb she had always wanted.

*Imagined Order: Even if I change my personal perspective, the multitudes of others that have not seen the light will continue with the same perspective. I become someone that simply raises an eyebrow.

 

[Nemo2]

Inquisitiveness: "What's over the next hill?" At a slight stretch can also morph into "What's the meaning of life?" or "What's it like to die?"....a search for knowledge....without it we'd all still be living in caves, not even drawing animals on the walls.

"Travel, Baby, Travel!"

 

[Souschef]

I go along with Mark Tain's comments"
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime

 

[audreyh1]

I like the adventure of travel. I guess being in unfamiliar surrounds for a short period - although obviously the new surrounds were chosen as likely to be desirable. Lots more daily challenges and we seem to be really busy. Plenty of surprises keep us on our toes - no way to eliminate those.

What's amazing is how much spontaneity there is in spite of my careful research and planning. I guess all the research and planning is just the preparedness I create such that we are able to quickly recognize and jump on opportunities. I'm able to quickly reorganize things at the last minute if it looks like a good idea. I usually have a framework of many, many things that we might like to do and when they will be available, and then we can switch around depending on what we feel up to at any given moment.

I would travel more if it weren't so darn much work to organize!!!! (see my sig line)

 

[jonat]

I love to travel so that I can experience new cultures and environments, and learn a bit more about our world. DW and I try to go someplace different each time - we're not the sort who have a "favorite" place they return to time after time.

To go along with that, we choose travel modes that put us in more contact with the local people and culture. When we cruise it's on small ships, and we often pair cruises with a week+ stay in an apartment (rather than a hotel). We walk everywhere possible rather than using tour buses.

We're not the sort who would backpack across the Himalayas, but neither are we people who never venture far from home. The experiences we gather while traveling are priceless, and each trip subtly adjusts our world view.

 

[Sunset]

I like to learn new things, to seek out new life and new civilizations. Just like the TV show.

Really, I enjoyed as a young person meeting folks from far away, I grew up in a small town and when I could get 25 cents from my Grandmother who lived with us. I'd go down to the grocery store and buy a coconut and sit on a wall overlooking the town intersection and break open my coconut and eat it. It was a food I had read about in books, that grew in mysterious lands I could not imagine visiting.

When I could meet someone from far away, I loved to hear about where they came from.
Whenever any of you folks post your travel pictures, I go look at them, as they are interesting to me, even if I never go to the places you have been.

While I can learn about things and places from a book or pictures, I can tell you I learned about the Grand Canyon in depth and saw many photos of it long before I saw it. But actually seeing it is much much more impressive to me.

I subjectively like traveling because for me it is a subjective enjoyment of learning.

It's sort of like sex, I can read about it, but it's much better in person.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Interesting and thought provoking. I subscribe to the “hedonic treadmill” concept, wherein I use travel to reset my basic needs back to ground level, which makes me appreciate the things I have at home all the more. There is no better shower than the first one you take after returning home from camping for a few weeks!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Not anymore, I travelled every week for almost 25 years before I retired. That was almost 5 years ago. I have not been on a plane since. Only been to an Airport to drop off or pick someone up. The airlines do not make it easy. I have no FF status anymore, so I have to board with the masses. (That was the only REAL advantage of FF Status, early boarding). I still have 400,000+ FF miles with an Airline. For some reason I keep one of their credit cards to keep the mileage current and pay $90pa for the priviledge.

That will change in December when we are going to an all inclusive resort in Mexico for our 30th WA, and my DWs Birthday. I am not looking forward to it one bit, but she is. Irony is we are not using FF miles to do it. We got a package deal.

I really only like going places that I can drive. Perhaps we should move to Europe......

 

[flintnational]

Same warning as the OP

I read Harari's book, Sapiens, earlier this year. It is thought provoking and an interesting read. IMO, his view of the world and of human history is unique. But, IIRC, he makes some leaps that cannot be knowable. Travel may be one of them. While I think he is correct about aspects of travel being learned behavior (inter-subjective, Romanticism?) there are other aspects that may be objective. I still get excited when I see or do something for the first time. Is this inter-subjective or objective? I think humans are hard wired to be curious. So it may be objective (at least for humans).

Harari spends a great deal of time reminding us that things we think are objective are in reality inter-subjective. However he goes on to demonstrate that humans' inter-subjective beliefs (religion, currency, human rights) have allowed humans to organize into large groups and create the civilizations we know today.

So, I would suggest that travel has value and meets human needs but it may not be knowable whether it is objective or inter-subjective or a combination. Both have historically had value to human development. In other words, does it matter why you enjoy travel? Even if is inter-subjective, it can still be enjoyed.

FN

 

[38Chevy454]

I'm like ShokWaveRider, prefer driving over flying. Did enough business travel, and airplanes to me are just a flying bus. It is no fun, overcrowded, bad fellow passengers, delays, stuck at airline's mercy, and more. Driving I can take at my chosen pace and see the sites along the way. Only good thing about flying is getting it over with, which is usually 1/2 of a day or sometimes a full day of time to get to the destination; assuming no weather or other delays impact your flights.

I do like seeing new places and experiences, but I am also quite content staying home. So I guess I don't *really* like travel but I do enjoy the experience once I am in the middle of it.

 

[athena53]

Yes, I like to travel. Two of my favorite quotes on the subject:

“Most travel is best of all in the anticipation or the remembering; the reality has more to do with losing your luggage.”-Regina Nadelson

“Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and I remember more than I have seen.”- Disraeli

I'm pretty realistic. Air travel has gotten unpleasant but some of it can be mitigated by flying Business Class on long hauls and using airline lounges if you have a long layover and are in Coach. I've dealt with jet lag, language barriers, the occasional ripoff and bad weather. That's not what sticks in my mind. I love getting familiar with another corner of the world, reading the paper (if I can), seeing things from another point of view. I love standing in places where historic events have happened.

I have 4 siblings and I'm the only one who's traveled for pleasure outside of North America and the Caribbean although the others could afford it. Some of us have the urge, some of us don't.


ETA: Just checked my YTD totals. Six trips, 25 hotel/Airbnb nights (plus another 3 staying with family), 17 flight segments, 5 countries (including US). Another road trip planned.

 

[Sojourner]

Really interesting, thought-provoking topic. I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that the desire for and enjoyment of travel is due to "romantic consumerism". Certainly the notion of romanticism is valid and explains why many people find travel to new places very fulfilling. But this is just a label for a category of human ideas about the world and how we perceive it. It doesn't make those "romantic" experiences any less real or satisfying.

I have been a life-long travel fanatic, and to this day it is at the very top of my lists of favorite things to do. I also love gazing up at the stars on a dark night and contemplating the cosmos and our tiny little corner of it. This certainly falls into the category of "romanticism", too, but it has nothing to do with consumerism or anything cynical and everything to do with my longstanding fascination with "the big picture" and concepts like infinity and the origin of the universe.

I go along with Mark Twain's comments "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime

+1

 

[frayne]

Agree with Twain's comment but after 30+ years of being on and off the road and to more than a few foreign countries it is nice to veg out and leave the hustle and bustle of travel behind. Especially in this day and age. I'm so old I can remember flying when you didn't have to take your shoes off and go through any kind of security.

 

[Meadbh]

My attitude to travel is changing. As a young adult, I was eager to experience life in other countries (and did so). However I never had a desire to backpack around the world. I travelled quite a bit for w*rk and visited many places that I would never have seen otherwise. I count those travels as many of my most enriching experiences. Great memories! In ER, I have the time to travel as much as I want to, and I have a travel budget which could be increased at will. But I find that I want to be selective and to pace myself. I find myself taking one or two major trips abroad per year. This year, weddings are playing havoc with my travel plans! I like my home comforts and prefer to stay in nicer places. I often travel alone, but can enjoy organized tours when visiting a place where language is a barrier. However, even on tours, I need my personal time. There are some journeys that I would not look forward to, such as a long haul flight to Australia, so if I do go, there will have to be some incentive like a stopover. There are some destinations that I will never see, and that’s OK. It’s not a race.

 

[Amethyst]

I like to see and experience new and interesting things. I hate and loathe the business of getting there and getting around. When you come right down to it, we would probably be happier with a virtual reality travel experience, which cut out all the actual "travel."

With age, Travel almost feels like an obligation - we have this money, we're not getting any younger, let's go somewhere we haven't gone and see things we haven't seen, before we get too old to go, and all our money goes on hiring out our personal needs.

The first post implies that many people travel because other people think it's the thing to do. If I looked at it that way, I would never leave home

 

[Midpack]

A periodic topic here. Though I am always fascinated by other cultures, I’m lukewarm on travel only because of

• (high) cost, as compared to what else I could do with that money, and
• I’ve traveled and relocated almost all my life, so there aren’t that many places I still want to see that I haven’t.

But I can well appreciate why others who haven’t traveled much would want to.

We plan to relocate at least once more mostly because we’re tired of where we are, something new and different has a lot of appeal. YMMV

 

[Ronstar]

I really like visiting new places - primarily historic places, places with great landscape photo opportunities, and great hiking spots. But I generally dislike getting there by plane or ship. Road trips are ok because I can set them up to visit some great spots along the way to the primary destination.

 

[Mdlerth]

I vote inter-subjective

DW loves travel. Her siblings love to travel. Some of my best friends wander the four corners of the globe at every opportunity. Not me.

I used to get excited about traveling, but I don't any more. It's uncomfortable, expensive and exhausting. I can't remember a discretionary family trip over the past thirty years that wasn't accompanied by either major inconvenience or just plain disaster.

When I was young and ingenuous, I was eager to see new places, taste new foods, feel new sensations, learn new languages, hear new sounds, sniff new smells and meet new people. I looked at travel as an opportunity to fill my empty memory banks with data. So I traveled.

Eventually, however, I had gathered a fair amount of data. Some patterns began to emerge, such as one crowded metropolis looks, sounds and smells a lot like the previous crowded metropolis. Many foreign comestibles are wildly different from my habitual fodder, but only a tiny fraction of them were in any way better. Most foreigners spoke English better than I could speak their tongue, so my efforts to learn were wasted.

New people turned out to be exactly as human as every other individual on earth. They struggle through life with the same collection of merits and flaws as we all do. Some were friendly. Some were jerks. Most were wrapped up in their own lives and weren't at all interested in anyone else including me. Within a year I remembered having met them but had long since forgotten their names.

Getting sick or lost or arrested in foreign territory was unquestionably MUCH worse than suffering the same setback on my home turf.

The sum of my data indicate that travel provided me with data, nothing more. Most trips were net negatives. None of them resulted in the life-changing, miraculous enlightenment that travel purports to yield.

When we RE, I will loyally accompany DW on her bucket list of trips. But that's because I love her, not traveling.

 

[audreyh1]

Airplane travel doesn't bother me at all.

Maybe it's because I already took a 10 year break from it from 2003 to 2013.

Getting back in it wasn't nearly so bad as I imagined, and we have taken various steps over the years since to make it more pleasant.

It's the only way to get to and from Europe! (by ship is not acceptable for us). And DH put his foot down a couple of years ago about driving half way across the country to visit family.

 

[Chuckanut]

Not anymore, I travelled every week for almost 25 years before I retired. That was almost 5 years ago. I have not been on a plane since.

I see your point and I don't blame you one bit.

I do think we need to differentiate between traveling for business/work which can be a series grueling rounds of planes, taxis, hotels, etc. and traveling for pleasure to see and enjoy things and experiences that are not available at home.

I will also add that traveling helps us to see the world and our nation's place in it more accurately. I was amazed when on my first trip to Poland I was able to stroll around what had been a town built to house faithful workers for the party with absolutely no fear as I walked through the Ronald Reagan plaza. I had lunch in a nearby small younger folks cafe that was playing Frank Sinatra music.

I was also amazed to see the rusted falling down old factories in Bulgaria. Factories built during Communism to make low quality products nobody in their right mind would buy today. And to see the row after row of big, high rise, featureless apartment buildings made to house the population. But I also saw the joy in the heart of a small town mayor when he told us of how he managed to get a new water system built that piped clean water to every building in town. No more summer water problems, no more having to walk to the well, no more saving old barrels to collect water when it rained.

 

[Marita40]

I like planning trips. I really don't like packing, leaving home, leaving my cat. On the day of travel I usually have a mild regret and think of all the things I have to do at home. But once I'm wherever I'm going, I love to travel. I'm always glad I've done it.

 

[candrew]

I go along with Mark Twain's comments"
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime

+1 Big time....

 

[Koogie]

I like being home and I like being other places.

It's generally the part in between I could do without.

Flying is nothing but a chore. Never enjoyable, usually just tolerable, occasionally horrific. Driving I love but my stamina for it is declining with age. No more 8 hours straight for this guy. Driving trips are now multi day affairs.

Still enjoy very much, very much, travelling by train. But I've done most of the great train journeys on this continent (some more than once) and also a few of the good ones in Europe and Asia. Doing more of them far overseas is on my bucket list but they tend to be enjoyable when you have more than a couple weeks at time. They'll have to wait for full ER.

 

[haha]

DW loves travel. Her siblings love to travel. Some of my best friends wander the four corners of the globe at every opportunity. Not me.

I used to get excited about traveling, but I don't any more. It's uncomfortable, expensive and exhausting. I can't remember a discretionary family trip over the past thirty years that wasn't accompanied by either major inconvenience or just plain disaster.

When I was young and ingenuous, I was eager to see new places, taste new foods, feel new sensations, learn new languages, hear new sounds, sniff new smells and meet new people. I looked at travel as an opportunity to fill my empty memory banks with data. So I traveled.

Eventually, however, I had gathered a fair amount of data. Some patterns began to emerge, such as one crowded metropolis looks, sounds and smells a lot like the previous crowded metropolis. Many foreign comestibles are wildly different from my habitual fodder, but only a tiny fraction of them were in any way better. Most foreigners spoke English better than I could speak their tongue, so my efforts to learn were wasted.

New people turned out to be exactly as human as every other individual on earth. They struggle through life with the same collection of merits and flaws as we all do. Some were friendly. Some were jerks. Most were wrapped up in their own lives and weren't at all interested in anyone else including me. Within a year I remembered having met them but had long since forgotten their names.

Getting sick or lost or arrested in foreign territory was unquestionably MUCH worse than suffering the same setback on my home turf.

The sum of my data indicate that travel provided me with data, nothing more. Most trips were net negatives. None of them resulted in the life-changing, miraculous enlightenment that travel purports to yield.

When we RE, I will loyally accompany DW on her bucket list of trips. But that's because I love her, not traveling.

Very close to my feelings. Overall, I think that mass leisure travel is a giant con-job on residents of affluent countries. Most of the fine things that leisure travel is supposed to do are actually impossible. Do locals in Barcelona want to meet some middle-age American? Of course not. If they are connected to a travel industry they want him to spend his money and get the hell out. If they have jobs unaided by tourism they just want him to get the hell out.

I did enjoy working and living abroad, in jobs that gave me local contacts. The idea that one can learn about foreign cultures without having a strong speaking ability in the language is basically absurd. I think people actually like to travel because it is a strongly favored social statement, and it gets one away from what is frequently a boring existence at home. Plus, when you are far way from home you don't notice all the chores needing to be done.

It is possible that I would nevertheless travel if my GF pressed hard enough. To quote (out of context) Dr. John "if I don't do it somebody else will..."

Ha

 

[Nemo2]

And to see the row after row of big, high rise, featureless apartment buildings made to house the population.

My first observation when I set foot in Belgrade for the first time in 1963.