Pathetically Wrong!

Huston55

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As is likely true with most E-R.org members, reading this WSJ article reinforces my plan to stick to a predefined AA & WR. Although, I do admit to always gobbling up articles about market trends, where prices stand historically and, of course, there the markets might be going based on all that tea leaf reading. I suppose it’s my version of Financial Porn. :angel:

Anyway, below are some excerpts & a link. WSJ allows some free reads, after which a subscription is required so, apologize in advance if the link doesn’t get you the whole story. But, I think you can get the gist from the excerpt & chart. (Mods: Pls ensure I’m not violating any copyright rules with this excerpt. :greetings10:)

I’m interested in how financial forecasts, market pricing (CAPE, etc.), politics, or whatever guide your investment strategy, if they do at all. As for me, as stated above, I’m pretty much a buy & hold to my predetermined AA & WR, with the commensurate :D or :( that accompanies the results.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/wall-streets-2017-market-predictions-pathetically-wrong-1511474337


Wall Street’s 2017 Market Predictions: Pathetically Wrong

Forecasting is difficult, but this year showed exactly how pointless it can be: Markets performed opposite of virtually all predictions
We all like to remember our successes and forget our failures, and finance is no different. As investors’ inboxes once again become clogged with annual outlooks from Wall Street’s scribblers, there is little admission of the nearly universal failure to predict what happened this year—even though the things the analysts missed are much more interesting than their forecasts.
There are two big lessons to learn from the mistakes of the year-end crystal-ball gazing. The first is that when everyone agrees that prices can only go in one direction, it is dangerous. The second is more nuanced: We really know an awful lot less about how the economy works than we thought.
Last year almost everyone was bullish about the prospects for the “reflation trade” of higher bond yields, stock prices and the dollar, driven by rising wages and Donald Trump’s tax-cut plans.
A year on and inflation hasn’t materialized, the tax discussion is bogged down in Congress, and almost every analyst was wrong. Benchmark 10-year Treasury yields are down, not up, the dollar is down, not up, and the S&P 500 has delivered more than double the gains of even the most bullish Wall Street prognosticators...

...“It’s doubly silly,” says M&G fund manager Eric Lonergan. “You can’t predict what’s going to happen [with events] and even if you are fortuitous enough to be right, it doesn’t help you when you’re investing.”
This year has been a classic example. Analysts thought stocks would do well as Mr. Trump cut taxes and inflation picked up, while many also predicted more volatility because of the political and geopolitical uncertainty. They were wrong, at least so far, about taxes and inflation, but stocks went up anyway. They were right about political and geopolitical uncertainty, but volatility failed to appear.
The key to what went wrong for the forecasters this year was the lack of inflation, something Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen has described as a “mystery.” As the year went on, investors became increasingly convinced that inflation would stay dormant, bringing down long-term bond yields and the dollar even as decent economic growth boosted profits and stock prices....
...Mr. Ruskin draws an interesting lesson from the failure of bond yields to pick up this year. Yields were held down by the $4-trillion pile of bonds held by the Fed, he reckons—in other words, it matters more how much the Fed holds than how much it buys or sells. Central banks have been saying for years that their bond-buying works by the size of their holding, not the flow, but investors have tended to focus on flow.
Not many of the year-ahead treatises have landed yet, but those that have almost all, once again, predict bond yields rising over the next year along with stock prices. It is tempting to regard that forecast as a contrarian indicator and bet on the opposite. But while that approach would have worked for bonds and the dollar this year, it would have meant missing out on a stunning share-price rally.
Strong consensus is a warning sign worth watching for. But the value in Wall Street’s year-end publications comes from the analysis they contain, not the prices they predict
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Pretty funny eh?

I don't follow forecasts, dig bomb shelters or wear tin hats.
 
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"Predictions were wrong!"

I don't know. Beats me. I don't remember what those were. And whose predictions are we talking about here? So many forecasters, so many predictions.
 
As is likely true with most E-R.org members, reading this WSJ article reinforces my plan to stick to a predefined AA & WR. Although, I do admit to always gobbling up articles about market trends, where prices stand historically and, of course, there the markets might be going based on all that tea leaf reading. I suppose it’s my version of Financial Porn.

+1. I like to read this stuff but I do not act on it. I remember so many people that took $ out of the market because they were afraid of the election outcome, but even if they had the result right, the market reaction was shortly opposite. Same with Brexit. I do have a long term plan to reduce my AA slowly if the market continues to rise, and I took 1% off this week. My previous move was in February.
 
Stocks or Bonds? What to do? I buy the same amount of both and then pray at least one of them goes up. I am happy at least half of the time:)
 
It makes you wonder why we try to forecast something that is unknowable. I only read forecasts that make me feel good, ie “talk up my book”.
 
Stocks or Bonds? What to do? I buy the same amount of both and then pray at least one of them goes up. I am happy at least half of the time:)

Yes. One of the most eloquent charts I've ever seen is the Callan Chart, which ranks the various segments of the market in rows, with the highest-performing at the top, and shows it over a period of years. It really drives home the point that the losers can be the winners next year, and vice versa. It keeps me from panicking and selling out at the bottom, or from joining the herd and putting too much money in the latest hot segment.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Callan_periodic_table_of_investment_returns
 
Yes. One of the most eloquent charts I've ever seen is the Callan Chart, which ranks the various segments of the market in rows, with the highest-performing at the top, and shows it over a period of years. It really drives home the point that the losers can be the winners next year, and vice versa. It keeps me from panicking and selling out at the bottom, or from joining the herd and putting too much money in the latest hot segment.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Callan_periodic_table_of_investment_returns

Thanks for posting this, I use it to invest my "play money" in the most depressed sector instead of the hot one.:)
 
Kind of funny, actually, that at the end of an article debunking forecasts the author states: "Strong consensus is a warning sign worth watching for." without any supporting argument whatsoever.

I would say: "Strong consensus is more likely to be due to herding than to the crowd having any particular insight into the future."

Nassim Taleb, RIchard Thaler, and Nate Silver, among many others, discuss this. A little more here: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/12/analyst-herding.asp
 
And how has this worked out for you? ;)

Is this your own version of the 'Dogs of the Dow'?

Worked out ok this year as I bought Vanguard Healthcare fund last December while it was down 8% for the year. It was up about 20% plus this year, but has settled to 17.5 about the same as a total stock fund. I will be looking for a loser to invest it in at the end of this year:dance: It is only 5% of my moneys and I refuse to "gamble" more than that on a sector bet.

VW
 
Yes. One of the most eloquent charts I've ever seen is the Callan Chart, which ranks the various segments of the market in rows, with the highest-performing at the top, and shows it over a period of years. It really drives home the point that the losers can be the winners next year, and vice versa. It keeps me from panicking and selling out at the bottom, or from joining the herd and putting too much money in the latest hot segment.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Callan_periodic_table_of_investment_returns

Yep! I like spreading my bets, aka diversifying across a broad spectrum of asset classes. I've seen that periodic chart in action ever since I created my AA and stated rebalancing.

I've also never been able to correctly guess which asset class is going to outperform next year even though it might seem "obvious" from macro conditions. Something unexpected always comes in to play.
 
... It is only 5% of my moneys and I refuse to "gamble" more than that on a sector bet.
Wise. Doing this can be kind of fun and, like the casino, there is the possibility of winning occasionally. It is the people who confuse this with investing that get into trouble.
 
Thanks for posting this, I use it to invest my "play money" in the most depressed sector instead of the hot one.:)

I do this to some extent, and the idea of shopping for bargains instead of chasing hot stocks is of course not a novel one. This philosophy has been in practice by many value fund managers for ages. It is not a sure thing though, because of the problem that is called the "value trap".

A stock or sector may be down for longer than one expects. And when something does not go anywhere for 2 or 3 years and one's overall performance trails the market, the investor gets edgy, capitulates, and moves his money out, that's when the sector surges. Man, that hurts. :banghead:

So, I have learned to be patient, and also to not put too much in any particular sector, let alone single stocks. In theory it's simple. In practice, well you know.
 
A stock or sector may be down for longer than one expects. And when something does not go anywhere for 2 or 3 years and one's overall performance trails the market, the investor gets edgy, capitulates, and moves his money out, that's when the sector surges. Man, that hurts. :banghead:

So, I have learned to be patient, and also to not put too much in any particular sector, let alone single stocks. In theory it's simple. In practice, well you know.
Yep. I've definitely had some asset classes lag for 3 years, rebalancing into them year after year, then lol and behold, bam! they surge way ahead of the others and its time to trim. That always feels rewarding.

But I do notice many folks have usually given up on that asset class by the three year mark and put the funds into something else.
 
... But I do notice many folks have usually given up on that asset class by the three year mark and put the funds into something else.
"The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient." -- Buffett
 
"The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient." -- Buffett

That quote is my signature quote at BH

"The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.”

:greetings10:
 
The subject reminds me of the definition of economist as provided by Laurence J. Peter:

"An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today."
 
Audrey's point reinforces what never ceases to surprise me. While the following is anecdote, not data, at several points I've been a bit stunned at how quickly the markets "correct," sometimes after many years of underperformance.
1) I just looked at the portfolio and noticed Fidelity International Small Cap. It's in a Brokerage 403b that I started in March 2012 and was one of the worst performers in the account. However, this year it's up more than 30% and passed the other funds in 5 year performance (Fidelity Small Cap Discovery last year was the leader by quite a bit; it's not done well this year.)
2) I also have held Vanguard International Value in DW's rollover IRA for almost 10 years--another underperformer, compared both to international and of course to US large caps. This year, again, 30%. I had an International Growth fund and wanted to try the Value premium; luckily I remembered this intent.
3) In 1999, to "smooth" out the volatility of Fidelity Select Biotech, I bought Select Healthcare, which had done well at lower volatility. It, frankly, sucked for about 4-5 years. Again looking at it in another Brokerage 403b started about 5.5 years ago, it has been the best performer for the last 5 years.

I like to look at 10 year returns for funds rather than shorter terms (the problem with this is that often the management has changed). And looking at 10 or 15 year returns reinforces that the international diversification and the small and value premium often requires a lot of time to work--much longer than most peeps have the patience to realize.

Yep. I've definitely had some asset classes lag for 3 years, rebalancing into them year after year, then lol and behold, bam! they surge way ahead of the others and its time to trim. That always feels rewarding.

But I do notice many folks have usually given up on that asset class by the three year mark and put the funds into something else.
 
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