Carbs or calories? Atkins vs WW

[googily]

That's the key. Low carb really curbs cravings. A low carb, high fat, moderate protein breakfast holds me easily to dinner time.

Exactly. My first meal of the day was around 12:30 pm, and it was mixed greens with about 6 oz of chargrilled chicken and ranch dressing and a few croutons, and about seven strawberries (thank heavens for the salad bar place downstairs). MFP says that's about 500 calories, 24 g carbs, 18 g fat, 35 g protein, and 4 g carbs.

Right now, three hours later, I could stand to maybe have a snack, maybe some cheese. But that would require going down three floors to the self-serve kiosk here at work, and I don't feel like getting up, so I'm just drinking more water instead.

But I can remember back to my many years of trying to follow a low-fat approach, using carbs as the basis of my eating, that being under 500 calories at 3:30 pm would have had me beyond ravenous, and I'd be racing down to the kiosk to buy something "low fat," but loaded with sugar, wolfing it down, and would then be at 700 calories and still hungry and cranky, and would arrive home ready to break down cabinet doors to eat whatever I could get my hands on.

Bringing an end to the blood sugar spikes--even as someone who is not remotely close to being diabetic--is just huge.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Even Weight Watchers now takes carbs into consideration when assigning its points to foods--for the same amount of calories, a high carb food has more points, a high protein food has fewer.

 

[euro]

I'm a yoyo when it comes to diets...once I slip, I slide... DW is great about eating healthy, but she seems deprived of the good stuff. Only diet I've lost on was Atkins.. 22 lbs about 12 years ago. I think it's time to rinse and repeat.

Any tips on Atkins? Golf buddy has lost 25 lbs in a short time and he swears by it (energy, easy vs WW, etc). I'm guessing that one size doesn't fit all..

There are many, many versions of low carb - if Atkins worked for you 12y ago, try the same thing again? But this time, make it a lifestyle, not just lose weight and then switch back to "regular" diet.
Check out Zoë Harcombe – Obesity Researcher, Author The Harcombe Diet or www.wheatbelly.com for more updated versions. Zoe is in the UK, Bill Davis in the US.

 

[joeea]

I'm a yoyo when it comes to diets...once I slip, I slide... DW is great about eating healthy, but she seems deprived of the good stuff. Only diet I've lost on was Atkins.. 22 lbs about 12 years ago. I think it's time to rinse and repeat.

Any tips on Atkins? Golf buddy has lost 25 lbs in a short time and he swears by it (energy, easy vs WW, etc). I'm guessing that one size doesn't fit all..

When I need to lose weight, Atkins/South Beach Diet is it. Low carb is easy to do, and (for my wife and I at least) effective.

Now if I could only convince myself to stay on it, I'd be all set... Damn - now I'm craving pasta...

As far as tips: get yourself a few cookbooks for Atkins and/or South Beach. It's nice to have a wide selection of recipes to choose from - otherwise it can get boring.

 

[Danmar]

In the long term, smaller portions, less carbs and liquor, more exercise seems to work for me. No magic bullet, at least in my case. Holding pretty well at 6ft 3 and 210 lbs.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Giving up regular infusions of pasta was harder than quitting cigarettes. I got over the cigarettes. I have never gotten over the pasta. Every once in a while I just let loose and have some.

, I got over the cigarettes ,not the pasta!, I love it.

 

[2017ish]

In the long term, smaller portions, less carbs and [sufficient] liquor, more exercise seems to work for me. No magic bullet, at least in my case. Holding pretty well [-]at 6ft 3 and 210 lbs.[/-]

Pretty much the same for DW and I--with one important modification.

 

[sengsational]

Calories in < calories out works 100% of the time. It's science. How you choose to ingest those carbs and what amount of exercise is involved are the only differences between any two diets that actually work.

That leaves out how what you eat affects appetite.

It is incorrect, in my view, that people can eat the same number of calories of any number of macro-nutrient profiles and expect to have the same level of hunger. In other words, the person eating simple carbohydrates is likely going to be more hungry. Our bodies are programmed to never starve, so if one is, on average, more often hungry, that person will tend to eat more. Yes, you can say "I'm only going to eat X calories max, per day", but doing it for the rest of your life is "impossible". One thing you CAN do for the rest of your life is eat food that doesn't cause you to be as hungry.

p.s. If it's a diet you're on, that means you plan on stopping it at some point. That means you'll very likely move back to the old habits that got you to a point where you needed a diet in the first place. A lifestyle change is what is needed to ensure future weight remains where you want it.

Agree 100%

 

[exnavynuke]

That leaves out how what you eat affects appetite.

It is incorrect, in my view, that people can eat the same number of calories of any number of macro-nutrient profiles and expect to have the same level of hunger. In other words, the person eating simple carbohydrates is likely going to be more hungry. Our bodies are programmed to never starve, so if one is, on average, more often hungry, that person will tend to eat more. Yes, you can say "I'm only going to eat X calories max, per day", but doing it for the rest of your life is "impossible". One thing you CAN do for the rest of your life is eat food that doesn't cause you to be as hungry.

Agree 100%

I don't recall making any statements regarding how caloric intake affects a person's appetite... What you're talking about isn't "what makes weight loss work" (the thing I pointed out), it's really "what makes some people more likely to follow their diet", which is a different subject, hence why I made the follow-on comment about lifestyle changes.

 

[gauss]

Weight Watchers Lifetime for Gauss - Mental Game

I never had any desire to do low-carb, because I liked the carbs. I have lost weight on my own in the past by counting calories and exercise with tools like myfitnesspal and its predecessors.

For me weight loss is very much a mental game. When I focus on it and plan for it it happens. When I loose my focus the weight comes back.

In 2003 I lost 50 lbs. Then I got transferred to a new job location with a very different culture and problems emerged. I eventually gained much of the weight back.

In 2013 I lost 30 lbs (the new work site had improved by then). Then I developed a major kidney stone having me curled up on the couch for 5 weeks. I got really behind in things. Early the next year, my father died. I was only child so I spent much time funeral planning and managing his affairs. The weight came back.

This year I decided to try again but to do one thing different. I joined Weight Watchers (WW). My wife had done it for years. I figured that I could easily loose the weight and attain goal weight/lifetime status where you stop paying if you remain in compliance.

This was exactly the type of system that I needed. It would require me to weigh in once per month below my goal weight to avoid $15 charges. The frugal guy in me loves it. It keeps constant tension with the weight so I don't loose focus.

The first test came this month when I went on vacation for 10 days. I gained almost 10 pounds. Now I am concentrating on loosing this weight before the end of August so I won't have to pay anything.

Understand what is important to you and find a system that reinforces it.

-gauss

 

[Chuckanut]

Just to confuse things a bit more:

Is white bread better than whole-wheat? - CNN.com

We originally viewed (white and whole-wheat bread) as radical opposites in terms of their health benefits. But to our great surprise, we found no difference between the effects those two breads had on the various end points that we measured," said study author Eran Segal, a professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel.

 

[razztazz]

Just to confuse things a bit more:

Is white bread better than whole-wheat? - CNN.com

This is not confusing to me Just read the label. Whole wheat, whole grain, refined starch...? All the same. Besides, think about it. 100% wheat/"Whole grain" is about 99% the refined white starch that they say is bad with a laughably small amount of husk mixed in. Another massive dietary hoax designed to take people's money. Even doctors and so-called health care types, in my personal experience, are supremely ignorant of almost everything having to do with diet and exercise. Can't read labels on food items or drugs, or my medical alert card

 

[CyclingInvestor]

Not that I recommend this for anyone else -

When I retired 10+ years ago at 48, I was way too heavy and diagnosed as prediabetic. Over the next 10 years I slowly lost 80 lbs by controlling portion sizes a bit and exercising a lot.

Not good enough. I was diagnosed as diabetic 6 months ago, put on a few drugs, and started strictly controlling carbs (60 grams/meal max), cutting out most of my favorite foods - pasta, pizza, fruit juice, ice cream, almost all alcohol etc. I do not even count calories anymore - I cannot find many calories that appeal to me - and have dropped 21 more pounds since then. I just had my "-100 lb" celebratory dinner last weekend.

 

[Tailgate]

OP here.... 2nd day of counting carbs.

Small print is enlightening.. today I learned that my morning coffee routine spends 6 of my 20 carbs for the day (on the induction plan). My magnifying app on my smartphone is going to get a lot of use for awhile... those numbers are hard to read, but critical in my plan.

 

[garyt]

Even Weight Watchers now takes carbs into consideration when assigning its points to foods--for the same amount of calories, a high carb food has more points, a high protein food has fewer.

Yea, if you follow WW you will be on a carb restricted diet, just not as intense as Atkins,et al. I actually think WW is an easy way to lose weight, you can eat pretty much anything and for me at least it's way more enjoyable. I took it up with my wife a few years ago and lost 30 lb.s, to where I weighed less at 58 than in high school. Gotta hit the weights though when you diet so you don't lose muscle.

 

[Rustic23]

I have tried both. Lost weight on both. However, the only one I have been able to maintain a weight is Portion Control. I use My Fitness Pal to track weight, and Calories. But now I know about what portions I should be eating. I found that I can't exclude any food group for long. If I go Atkins, after a while I have to have bread and the scales head up. If I cut all sweets, the M&M Peanuts will sneak in and night with the same results. So keeping a little of all seems to work. However, the next food binge is right around the corner.

On the other side of the coin, walking 2 to 3 miles a day also make a big difference.

Present weight loss over the last 10 years 250 down to 195. I have stayed between 185 and 195 for three years.

 

[Nemo2]

For a juxtaposed dichotomy, perhaps this thread could be correlated with the innumerable "Where to eat" posts?

 

[misshathaway]

I've been low carb high fat for about 7 years. Most days under 25g, all vegetables or carbs in food I eat sparingly like Greek yogurt or walnuts. My annual labs are normal. I'm slightly underweight but that has always been the case. The 2 things I like the best about LCHF are:

- No roller-coaster cravings for sweets distracting from other things. I'm usually not hungry. The calorie restriction is not a thing I manage. It just comes from being satiated.

- My palate changed after about a year. About twice a year I indulge in sweets for a day, but it is never as great as I remember it being before. I can take or leave ice cream now, for instance.

 

[sengsational]

I don't recall making any statements regarding how caloric intake affects a person's appetite...What you're talking about isn't "what makes weight loss work" (the thing I pointed out)

Agreed. I expanded the discussion. Although losing weight requires more calories burned than taken in, that alone is a rather uninteresting observation; it's like saying if I add water to a funnel faster than it can drain out, water will spill over the top.

What you're talking about ...(is)... really "what makes some people more likely to follow their diet", which is a different subject, hence why I made the follow-on comment about lifestyle changes.

Again, I agree with you that I've added the dimension that includes what foods make it more likely to follow their diet (foods that have a different appetite response). To me, this is an essential part of the discussion.

My perspective, on which reasonably people may disagree, is that over the long term, fighting one's appetite is "impossible". So to say that all you gotta do is cut calories without addressing appetite is just not very helpful. Very common, especially with people who are not overweight, but just not very helpful.

 

[haha]

This whole topic is very complex. I have never been even a bit overweight, and at 76 I have given it time to happen if it was going to. This should suggest that I process carbs well. But I don't. Some years back I turned up pre-diabetic. My A1c has since dropped to "normal", but there is nothing normal about my carbohydrate processing. True normals will have at a minimum a normal GTT, and years ago mine was so-so while not yet diagnostic of anything.

My family history is strong for DM-2. So as I see it, it is possible to have the genotype to make one show clinical diabetes given the wrong diet and lifestyle, but nevertheless be very resistant to becoming overweight. When I say "wrong diet and lifestyle" I don't mean in any universal sense, but for one who is evidently susceptible to diabetes T2.

I have always been physically active, and I suppose that this may be a factor. It may also be a factor in the 20% of diagnosed T-2 diabetics who are not overweight, but I think this is not established.

Ha

 

[Elbata]

80% of my calories are carbohydrates. I'm eating WFPB. I very well may be wrong, I'm betting my life on it.

 

[Winemaker]

I am 6'5" and used to weigh 210#, and back in 2001, I had a stress fracture in my foot. As a supervisor in a coal mine, I was, mildly putting it, pretty active then and ate to my hearts content. Back then I could only get 3 servings out of a half gallon carton of Breyer's ice cream, despite the label saying it had 12. I gained 20#s while I was off.

Fast forward to now, I'm 230, go to the gym regularly, and don't even think about ice cream, it's just too sweet. I try to keep my carbs below 100 gms/day, but wine is full of calories.

 

[Chuckanut]

Not good enough. I was diagnosed as diabetic 6 months ago, put on a few drugs, and started strictly controlling carbs (60 grams/meal max),

Actually, I don't thing most of the low-carb crowd would consider 60g/meal (180g for the day) as that strict. I do lower-carb and I try to limit my carbs to about 100g per day.

 

[Live And Learn]

I just count calories Monday - Friday. Weekends are "non-diet days" within moderation. I've lost 20% of my body weight this way and went from obese to healthy weight. Once you learn how to count calories you can think of food in terms of "cost" .... an apple cost 100 calories, so does a Bud Light .... but the Bud Light may lead to the consumption of additional "got a buzz" calories. And once you learn the calories in food you'll never have to rememorize foods according to the latest WW points plan.

BTW - I had a friend who was on Atkin (Low Carb, High Fat) for about 3 months before he died in bed of a a heart attack at age 46 .... not saying the diet caused his heart attack but it may have accelerated some other issues that were brewing.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

BTW - I had a friend who was on Atkin (Low Carb, High Fat) for about 3 months before he died in bed of a a heart attack at age 46 .... not saying the diet caused his heart attack but it may have accelerated some other issues that were brewing.

Bet no one will ever ask you to be a spokesperson for Atkins, .