Country living..20 minutes from 'anything'..

[Mr._Graybeard]

One thing I really long for out here is access to natural gas for heating and cooking. Some rural homeowners have a line running past their homes, but those of us in a really "private" location have to make do with a more expensive fuel. The issue is compounded by the fact that our house is over 100 years old. As a friend in a similar situation commented, "It's like heating a corn crib."

A cruel irony is that the local power utility ran a 30-inch gas main through our property about 15 years ago. They paid us well for the easement, even though I told them they could have the easement for free if they ran service to our house.

 

[24601NoMore]

We recently thought long and hard about it. We decided agaisnt it for several reasons.

-we want to be close to an airport, easy taxi ride
-we need good internet
-proximity to medical and dental services
-proximity to social events, restaurants, etc.

So we made the decision to remain urban. It was the right decision for us.

Good internet is an absolute necessity for us since I'm "in the business" (IT).

Fortunately, we "think" we have cable - or so Charter tells us. Very long story but we went from thinking the sub was NOT wired and we'd have to use LTE or (ugh) Satellite to finding the construction manager at Charter for the area who insists we can in fact get it, and that the sub is indeed wired. Still have not heard of anyone on our street who actually has it working, though but he was "100% positive" and actually sent one of his line techs onsite to verify..

No cable would pretty much be a deal breaker. I don't care about the TV but the high speed internet is a must in my business (and in general).

 

[24601NoMore]

One thing I really long for out here is access to natural gas for heating and cooking. Some rural homeowners have a line running past their homes, but those of us in a really "private" location have to make do with a more expensive fuel. The issue is compounded by the fact that our house is over 100 years old. As a friend in a similar situation commented, "It's like heating a corn crib."

A cruel irony is that the local power utility ran a 30-inch gas main through our property about 15 years ago. They paid us well for the easement, even though I told them they could have the easement for free if they ran service to our house.

Natural gas would be huge. We'd be on propane, and one of my family members who lived in the area told me the other day he had a SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLAR propane bill his first year. Of course, he also has a barn (kept at 55 degrees) but still..seven thousand?!!!

That's a high price to pay for privacy and (hopefully) peace and quiet..

 

[Walt34]

Could it be someone doing flight instruction? that's what it sound like it might be, that's a different thing then airplane traffic.

In addition to the landing pattern traffic that meierlde described, if they're going around in near-perfect circles it could be flight instruction practicing "turns around a point". It's a bit more complicated than simply pointing a wingtip at a specific tree or something because the pilot also has to compensate for the wind to keep the ground track circular, so the angle of bank has to constantly change throughout the turn. To make it easier to see changes in ground track this is often done at a lower-than-normal altitude, say 500 to 1,000 feet.

Either that or they're doing aerial photography surveying where they're going to build the 2,000 home development and 8 million square foot shopping center with apartment buildings....

 

[haha]

I have been a city person most of my life, and I mean city, not a suburb. When my children were young we moved to the country in a lovely but extremely unhandy situation which became worse as the years went on and I-5 traffic steadily increased.

What I never realized is that unless you are looking for elk and bears on your porch, there are plenty of relaxing and completely satisfactory city or very close in suburban locations. For personal safety as well as comfort and long term trust in the increasing value of your home or condo the big issue is crime. Gentrification decreases crime, but also increases social justice plans to stop these neighborhood changes. You do not want crime, it is one of the things that can really sink one's happiness and security in a big way. The hangup, if there is one, is cost. City homes in quality neighborhoods in growing cities are definitely uncheap.

Late yesterday afternoon I walked down to to the Central Library to pick up a book. Then on to the Public Market for some food. I found a book for $1 by Alberto Moravia, one of my favorite authors, Then some grilled ahi tuna while I watched the light rain fall beyond the open stall. I suddenly felt very happy. When I got home I had clocked a total of 10 miles on my Fitbit, and I still felt fresh because I really can't think of anything that I would rather be doing. I remembered when I first came up here from LA to visit is 1966. I stayed with a friend in the U District, and we got up to go out for breakfast in a light rain. That felt good, and it still does to me, though I feel sure that there are plenty others who would be less enthralled.

Ha

 

[24601NoMore]

In addition to the landing pattern traffic that meierlde described, if they're going around in near-perfect circles it could be flight instruction practicing "turns around a point". It's a bit more complicated than simply pointing a wingtip at a specific tree or something because the pilot also has to compensate for the wind to keep the ground track circular, so the angle of bank has to constantly change throughout the turn. To make it easier to see changes in ground track this is often done at a lower-than-normal altitude, say 500 to 1,000 feet.

Either that or they're doing aerial photography surveying where they're going to build the 2,000 home development and 8 million square foot shopping center with apartment buildings....

Agreed..I think it's flight training. There's a small airport nearby and when I googled them, the first image that comes up is their entrance with the standard signage and a "Learn to Fly!" sign right next to it..but then again..how many people want to "learn to fly"?

Either that or some local has a small plane that he likes to drive around in circles in..

I don't mind if an occasional plane flies overhead actually going somewhere..but to hear them buzzing around overhead for hours at a time going in circles..well, that's annoying.

 

[Hermit]

Natural gas would be huge. We'd be on propane, and one of my family members who lived in the area told me the other day he had a SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLAR propane bill his first year. Of course, he also has a barn (kept at 55 degrees) but still..seven thousand?!!!

That's a high price to pay for privacy and (hopefully) peace and quiet..

I have paid $1250 for propane this year after filling up the tanks last Dec 28 and I just had them filled last a couple of weeks ago. That includes a 2000+ square foot house with no drywall, no ceilings, and no insulation last winter. It also includes an old 34 foot motor home. I live at 8700 ft in Colorado. I did not want anything freezing last winter so the partially installed furnace kept the basement at 55 degrees and the upstairs somewhat colder. This year the walls have 1.5 inches of foam so it will be quite a bit cheaper. When the house is finished I will mostly heat with a wood stove. Propane should be a couple hundred a year or less. Wood is free if you cut up what falls down or needs to be taken down on that much acreage.

 

[Music Lover]

Natural gas would be huge. We'd be on propane, and one of my family members who lived in the area told me the other day he had a SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLAR propane bill his first year. Of course, he also has a barn (kept at 55 degrees) but still..seven thousand?!!!

That's a high price to pay for privacy and (hopefully) peace and quiet..

How is that possible? I heated a 1000 square foot house on the Canadian prairies last year for $400 (natural gas). That $400 includes $150 of fixed charges. Even the people I know with 3000 square foot houses rarely spend more than $1200 - $1500 for an entire year.

 

[REWahoo]

How is that possible?

My guess is somebody forgot to close the barn door...

 

[NW-Bound]

Is his barn like this?

How do you heat a cavernous barn without having all that precious heat going up to the roof?

 

[MRG]

Is his barn like this?

How do you heat a cavernous barn without having all that precious heat going up to the roof?

I don't know and I've been in many barns, never did see much insulation.

 

[meierlde]

Actually in the barn on my grandfathers farm (now demolished) built before 1900 there was a central area for hay etc as well as parking a wagon, and smaller rooms for horses and cows. The horse and cow areas were small enough that the animals were enough to keep the room at least somewhat warm in S Indiana.

 

[24601NoMore]

How is that possible? I heated a 1000 square foot house on the Canadian prairies last year for $400 (natural gas). That $400 includes $150 of fixed charges. Even the people I know with 3000 square foot houses rarely spend more than $1200 - $1500 for an entire year.

Not sure, but he's a pretty educated and detail-level guy, so if he says it was $7K I believe him..

He did say propane was more than 2X the cost it is now at the time..and he didn't get crazy about keeping the temp low. He sure does now. That, and he added a wood burning stove.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

At the height of the energy crunch in 2008, fuel oil in my area was $4/gallon. That year we spent about $3000 to heat our 2400-square-foot house. We eventually installed a wood-pellet boiler and cut our heat bill in half.

We could conceivably heat with cordwood for much less, but wood is a pain. You really should have a couple seasons' worth drying out -- green wood produces creosote, which can coat the chimney and increase the risk of a chimney fire (a few of our neighbors burn their houses down every winter). Creosote is also acidic , which can corrode the stove. A lot of those lovely outdoor wood boilers on rural homesites puffing out clouds of smoke are burning green wood -- and who knows what else.

When I was a teen we heated the house with wood. Fortunately, a nearby town had a furniture factory that was happy to dump their kiln-dried hardwood scraps at our place for next to nothing. We were in clover until the Arab oil embargo caused the factory folks to consider how many valuable BTUs they were giving away.

 

[Ronstar]

We had propane the first few years. Very expensive - can't remember the exact amount - probably around $1500 -$2000 a winter in the mid 1990's. Then gas mains were installed on our street and I paid $1400 to connect. Well worth it.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

The polar vortex of 2013-'14 did some crazy things to propane prices, IIRC. Some people had trouble getting their tanks filled at any price.

 

[iloveyoga]

I have enjoyed this post. We live in a suburb that is really close to our metro downtown area as well as the next door suburb. I thought about moving, but all things considered we really like our location, house and yard. This post has a lot of good questions and considerations so I have followed along. For now and the forseeable future, this home works great for us.

 

[Katsmeow]

I bought my current house in 1997. It's 10 minutes from hospital, groceries, etc., and 2 minutes from a highway to exit the city. It's on 1.7 acres with an empty field behind me, and I built the garage, decks, and fence to completely shield me from the neighbors but still provide a view of wide open space. It's the perfect combination of convenience, space, and privacy.

That type of thing is pretty much my ideal location. I actually had something close to it for awhile. We owned 1 acre unrestricted in a similar type location. It was absolutely wonderful in terms of access to things. And, with our dogs at the time (5 of them) it was ideal.

We eventually sold it without building on it as we had planned. But, the cost to build just seemed absurd. The existing house we ended up buying was larger with better finishes that what he would have built and was at least 25% cheaper (probably closer to a third when it would have all been done). To build something comparable to what we bought would have been probably twice the price. I just couldn't justify the difference in price. So we bought our current house.

And, as it turns out almost 6 years later, I don't like being 20 minutes from everything.

We are thinking of moving in a few years and one possibility is the area that I grew up in. I've been looking at houses to get an idea of market. One issue I am having is that where I am now most everywhere is unincorporated. So no city ordinances. We do have an HOA but no pet number restrictions.

We actually have fewer pets now and could fit in more locales (we are down to 2 dogs/3 cats and will eventually be 0 dogs -- they are old -- but would like the option to have 4 cats). Even so, I would prefer some place without pet number restrictions. Around here there are a lot of subdivisions that don't have any.

But in the place we are looking at most of the County is incorporated. So most every City - big or small - has pet limits. Many of the limits are actually fine and would accommodate what we have. But, I don't like it anyway. Cities can change their ordinances. So the place that now allows 4 pets can suddenly change to only allowing 2. I don't want to take that risk.

There are very few unincorporated areas. I could go to surrounding counties and buy a house much like we have now. But, then I run into the same issue...20 minutes from everywhere.

I could try to find an unincorporated area close to amenities. But, the risk there is that it is close to a city and you move in and then it gets annexed so you get subject to the city ordinances.

We haven't decided yet what to do. I mean by the time we move we may be down to 0 dogs or maybe 1 and we have 3 indoor cats now. So most ordinances would be OK with that (not all HOAs, of course, but I could find some). And, we may never get a 4th cat. I would just like to have the option. So, we'll see.

 

[ivinsfan]

On the changing pet rules and especially cats how do they really know how many cats you have...they don't have cat police and most cats are inside animals. Most likely if a change like this happened existing cat owners would register their cats and be grandfathered into the new limit.

There is no way any branch of government would make you give away existing pets or move..as far as cities having pet limits as a person who had pets and right now doesn't have pets, I'm completely OK with a city or township telling my neighbors they can't have 6 dogs or half a dozen cats....outside cats can be destructive too.

 

[24601NoMore]

Quick update..

I've come to learn through this whole process that my biggest issue is the neighbor's massive (6,000+ sq ft) house that's built so it's mostly in what would otherwise be our back yard.

We did roughly $100K in landscape (HUGE trees) to hide the monstrosity, but we are on a corner..and our house sits in front of both neighbors. So when the Italian builder guy plunked a 6K+ sq ft house basically 20 feet from us - including having his driveway where all the kids "play" (which basically means screaming like you're on fire) a few feet from my office window - well, that sucked.

Noise is bad, although it's been FAR worse in the past when the older boy (who's now at college) was growing up. They're down to one kid and he's (so far) better but no telling who might move in one day..and then the cycle will start all over again.

The main thing I hate is that I don't feel like I have ANY privacy - INSIDE my own house. The Italian Monster looms over us. And while they are reasonably nice people, I freaking HATE feeling like anyone is walking around their yard looking into my house. I'm just too private for that - and I also don't want to live like a prisoner, constantly having to pull down blinds to create any sense of actual privacy.

The trees we planted to hide the Italian Monstrosity are dying - badly. I spend roughly $1k per year to TRY to keep them healthy, and wonder how trees actually LIVE in the woods, as my trees keep trying to die..every disease, blight, scab, bug, etc known to mankind seem to LOVE them. They're 40+ feet tall, so irreplaceable - and if they go, so do we because without them, we have even LESS privacy (not that we really have much of any today - but at least it's "something").

On the "why not move to the new lots in the country" list, I came up with the following:

- Huge capital outlay..(new construction here is hugely expensive - $200+ / sq ft) at a time I want to RE, which would put a serious dent in my piggy bank as I would have $0 income coming in..and spending hundreds of K$s with no income - that's frightening..
- No nearby EMS service..and DW had a near fatal heart attack ~3 yrs ago. She could literally die if she had another cardio "event" and the ambulance is too far away to help. (#1 reason actually..)
- Could RE much earlier if we stayed put (though living here would suck..I'm tired of it and want new)
- Smaller, less "nice" house than we have now, for far more $$ (we built ~18 years ago..prices were much better even though we thought they were sky high then)
- Well, septic, etc
- Far from ANY amenities - we'd basically have the trail to ride on and not much else
- Far from ANY medical care
- Far from family (though not totally unmanageable)
- Lose access to local parks, Senior center (over 50 facility), quaint city we live in now with lots of restaurants, shopping, etc.

And for what?

PRIVACY.

And a sense that when I'm in my OWN HOUSE, I'm in my OWN HOUSE. Not a fishbowl. Not something that I'm always wondering who else might be looking into. Not something where I see the side wall of a 6K+ sq foot Italian Monstrosity when I look out my back windows. My. Own. Space.

I know..the answer seems obvious. Except it isn't. I realize there are many pre-built options that meet that main criteria - but then we get into the "2nd tier" criteria of liking the floor plan, the area, etc. And we are super fussy on what we want as the current dream home (on a terrible lot) has somewhat spoiled us. We have a lot of nice things in this house..finding that somewhere else is pretty unlikely unless we build - and properties are limited unless you go into the sticks.

 

[REWahoo]

Maybe it's time to move on to other problems as this one seems to be unsolvable.

 

[24601NoMore]

Maybe it's time to move on to other problems as this one seems to be unsolvable.

Gee..thanks. That's really helpful. Glad that I could ask for your guys opinion and experiences.

This is obviously a very hard decision with a lot of conflicting issues.

 

[REWahoo]

Gee..thanks. That's really helpful. So glad to ask for your guys opinion and experiences.

If you can't figure it out after 140+ posts offering ideas and suggestions, what else would you expect from "us guys"?

On we go...

 

[Ronstar]

It's fairly simple:

If you live in town, you have:

congestion, noise and neighbor nuisance
quick access to restaurants, shopping and medical care
city amenities - parks, etc (and paying for them)

If you live in the boonies, you have:

little or no congestion, noise and neighbor problems
longer drive to restaurants, shopping and medical care
no city amenities (but not paying for them either)

Life is a series of choices. And one's choice on living location may not be ideal in every way. You just have to evaluate what are the most important needs and wants for you and your family in arriving at a decision.

 

[ivinsfan]

If you can't figure it out after 140+ posts offering ideas and suggestions, what else would you expect from "us guys"?

On we go...

You got over 140 posts and don't consider us "helpful" actually this is the second thread, the first one was the high cost of custom building. No matter what anyone offers you seem to come back to "yea, but".....you really think anything someone says here is going to be a light bulb moment?