Have you tried to advise friend on investing?

In my experience, this forum is the only place where people respect my opinions and follow my advice. :facepalm:

If she asks, I would provide my opinions. But, I would also suggest she read a couple of books and that she gets up to speed on investing and I would explain why she needs to do this.
I would offer to take over her investments for a fee. I did that for MIL. She was very happy to pay my fee because her returns were higher after fees. It helped that she was already paying 1% AUM that I claimed as part of the savings.

I remember a financial adviser saying that he does not mind giving advice as long as he is getting paid. If they don't follow it, he is fine. He does not give advice to anyone not paying.
 
I usually paraphrase Bogle - aka buy the haystack at the lowest possible cost cause the needles are in there. And don't sell.

If they persist - I get wound up about index funds and am sometimes hard to shut up. :rolleyes:

heh heh heh - In 1994 I gave my oldest nephew (wedding gift ;) ) a copy of Bogle On Mutual Funds. He got it. Unfortunately twenty plus years of TSP success has made him 'smarter'. :(
 
No good deed goes unpunished. Your intentions are good, but you will get burned in the end.
 
... Her husband was a house flipper who got totally wiped out in 2009. He's of course reluctant to buy more real estate. I guess I'm wondering if people on here have had similar discussions with friends and how that went.

When I was working, we owned a series of apartment buildings. We did very well with them. When I retired, we consolidated our real estate holdings down to only one. It had been our best performing property, so we thought that was a smart move. We refinanced it and used the cash to buy our retirement home.

In 2008 that city's big employers experienced lay-offs and we lost all our tenants. If we had not had that mortgage, we would have been fine. But servicing the mortgage without rental income ruined us.

In 2016 we bought another rental property. This time there is no mortgage.
 
I would be worried about fraud with a small financial adviser. If i were to use an adviser, I would only chose a large company who would not want to damage their reputation by taking my small potatoes. Merrill Lynch etc. (not advocating, just pointing out that the big guys are safer in my opinion) There are numerous incidents of investors being taken by small local operators. Manufacturing fake statements.....
 
" It is hard enough to adequately tend to my own business without tending to anyone else's."

YUP. What this ^^ guy said.

Also, it sounds like the person in question is quite happy with being clueless.

Anything brought to her attention will not really register, so why bother?

Unless maybe you can show, in indisputable Black and White, and in simple Layman's terms.. " Look, here is the exact dollar amount you lost last year due to your adviser, his fees, and/or his advice."

And even then, believe it or not, they will quite likely continue to do exactly as they have been doing. ( Don't ask me how I know this. )

I believe a young Southerner stated it most succinctly and eloquently a few years back:

" Stupid is as stupid does."

:(
 
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OP, you can help your friend know how much money the FA is costing her, both in percentage terms and absolute dollar value. I recently encouraged a couple to calculate the $$ spent toward FA fees, not even including the well below market benchmark performance, and they decided to ditch the FA. To be fair, they were already considering and discussing this and they just wanted a second opinion and encouragement to get over the inertia to change.


In your case, I also suggest that you have a simple alternative for your friend such as a single target date fund with Vanguard/Fido/Schwab or advisor/robo advisor with same. Seems like your friend's real question concerns RE vs "investments" due to a desire for stronger return than the current 5%. Presumably, she believes she can beat this in RE. I'd suggest talking to her about concentrated risk, unless she has so much $$ she can spread her bets among several units/locations, although this wouldn't be true of a typical real estate investor.
 
1 more thing. There is being right and there is being married.

heh heh heh - Hitched again at 70. :greetings10: :flowers:
 
Nobody asks me for advice and I do the same.
 
No way I'd be giving advice. Anyway it was always considered taboo to discuss finances outside the immediate family. In any event it is unlikely anyone outside the family will ask this guy who drives a 15 year old Lexus and is attired in Dickies work clothes.
 
I only dispense advice when I’m asked for it. Many are puzzled about my early retirement, as in how was I able to do it. They speak in generalities on the subject but no one has directly asked me how I was able to do so...
 
And even then, believe it or not, they will quite likely continue to do exactly as they have been doing. ( Don't ask me how I know this. )

I believe a young Southerner stated it most succinctly and eloquently a few years back:

" Stupid is as stupid does."(
I don't think you can underestimate the fear of the unknown. I have heard people say: "You can fix it yourself. There is a youtube that shows you how!" yet I say let the experts fix it if it is something that only happens once.

In financial affairs, we underestimate all the layers of learning we have had over the years that gives us confidence to take the tiny next step.
 
OP, you can help your friend know how much money the FA is costing her, both in percentage terms and absolute dollar value. ..........
Yea, you'd think so. But you also run the risk of making them mad by pointing out how much money has been wasted and by the way, they make the bad choice. I pointed out that my nephew was getting ripped at over 3% annually by the "advisor" that the fire fighters' union had hooked him up with. Then, I was the bad guy for making him look bad. :rolleyes:
 
Yes that is the problem. I have been successful in convincing my friend but then he was mentored by me into a $400k/yr job. So I have some credibility. Others I have been naturally vague because they are in denial. It is amazing how the Financial Industry has momentum on their side. They have convinced their clients that the skill is like a surgeons.
 
I never give advice unless asked. And even then, I (a) try to first discern if the person is really asking for advice, instead of looking for confirmation for a choice they already desire to make, and (b) always add the caveat of my advice being based on the level of risk I am willing to take, which may not match theirs.
I never give advice, even when I am asked (e.g. even my sister who has asked several times). If the other person isn't interested in understanding investing to begin with, if I give them good advice, odds are they will panic sell one day - too late, after the paper losses have already occurred. And then it will be my fault they lost money and didn't predict/warn them in advance - why didn't I tell them to sell when the gains peaked? No thanks...

I had co-workers ask me to advise them, but it was pretty clear they just thought I'd give them foolproof advice to beat the market and they wouldn't have to know anything themselves. Again, that ends badly every time so I gave them some very basic info and suggested books they might read - I don't remember even one of them following up with my suggestions, they just wanted simply answers. Interestingly, when I did retire at age 57, they were the same people who thought I'd somehow cheated to reach FI (not that they even know what FI is) - and why didn't I do the same for them? They resented that I was able to retire.

I've only been seriously asked to give advice to a few people, all folks who didn't want to learn anything. I give them very basic information and books to read, it's up to them...
 
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It is amazing how the Financial Industry has momentum on their side. They have convinced their clients that the skill is like a surgeons.

+1

I can't count the number of times I have heard people say they need an FA because they are 'bad at math'. :(
 
+1

I can't count the number of times I have heard people say they need an FA because they are 'bad at math'. :(
Well, if they were good at math would they spend $10,000 a year for a FA to shuffle their million dollars of investments? No, they'd say "Holy Sh!t, this guy is making like a thousand dollars an hour off me".
 
I don't try advising friends about investing. If they ask me any questions, I'm happy to answer them but I don't volunteer anything because I don't know how any one individual might take that.
 
Yes. One friend wanted to buy individual stocks, so I have recommended some over the last decade. She is now retired with about 3/4 index funds and 1/4 stocks.

All the rest I answer questions with the standard response - all index funds, adjusting the equity level to risk tolerance.
 
I don't try advising friends about investing. If they ask me any questions, I'm happy to answer them but I don't volunteer anything because I don't know how any one individual might take that.

I will bring up the topic, as otherwise people are shy or don't want to show they know nothing.

I find the easiest way is to ask for opinion, "I'm thinking of buying emerging stocks, is that a good idea".

Heck, sometimes I've found my friend is brilliant, and I'm the one needing advice :blush:

If they don't talk to friends/family about it, then the only other choice is do nothing or your local friendly 5% front end load banker FA :mad:
 
Only a few people have ever solicited my advice. I recommended a few books, Bogleheads Guide to Investing, etc. To my knowledge, none of these people ever read any of the books I recommended.
 
I’m a teacher at heart. I don’t give advice. I try to help people that ask by trying to help them understand. That conversation has a lot less land mines. If I know someone is about where I am or more, I’ll converse wherein opinions will be shared, but if you agree with my opinion, you’re still taking your own advice. In OP case, I’d simply explain that for me, my opinion, is that more real estate is not something I would do. And then I’d move on to if you want me to help you understand your current situation, I’ll help point you in the right direction. For example, why don’t you discuss this with your investment advisor and, while you’re at it, plan a couple of hours of meetings for him/her to explain why it’s a good or bad decision and how it would fit in the overall investment plan.

As a lot of you know, I have an FA. I went there with eyes wide open. Point is, that if you are going to pay someone that much money to manage your finances, you better trust them and if you’re not going to accept their advice or follow their plan, you really need to ask yourself what the heck you’re doing with that person.

In the OP, it sounds like the person might get irritated about questioning the FA situation, but I think questioning is entirely reasonable. I assume the FA would disagree with being this heavily weighted in real estate yet the person wants to do it anyway and then get upset because she doesn’t want anyone questioning her trust in the FA? That right there would cause me to politely bow out.
 
I believe I live something akin to a "Millionaire Next Door" lifestyle. I've got enough, but really don't have any impetuous to spend it on stuff. Since I retired early, people/family/friends must think I must have an insurance settlement of something (?) - you surely can't be retired at 55 from just saving and investing ! . So I think it kind of funny when I get unsolicited advice on how I should invest. They appear to think that I should be doing something else so I could "do better". "You should take your SS early so you'd have more spending money". LOL. So - No - I do not give investment advice other than spend less save more.
 
I've given some advice to family when asked. Some are more willing than others to really listen. I thought my closet brother would when he was looking to retire early, but when he was trying to decide whether to start SS at 62 or wait, I pointed out a pretty big flaw in his spreadsheet. I couldn't get him to see it, and finally decided it was more or less a toss-up anyway, so why bother. I don't offer anything beyond what they ask, other than to say if they have other questions, just ask. It's usually the BILs or SILs who push their spouses to ask me because they don't see me as the little kid they grew up with, I guess.

During the dotcom run-up, some co-workers and I used to discuss stock tips and investing in general. One guy really had a knack for picking winners, but I came to realize he wouldn't share his tips until a stock really started to do well, and it was often too late to jump in. Not so helpful. I'm sure he never told us about some losers, but he'd talk about his net gains in his account and they were a lot bigger % than mine. But I did learn some things from him and others about the stock picking process. Some of it had me shaking my head though. He's presume a profit margin and a company's new product, and then say if they got x% of the market and sold a million of them, they'd make this much profit per share, so the stock would go up to this price. He'd be multiplying numbers he pulled out of his azz and I wouldn't buy it. Then a few months later the company would soar past his target, but that was the dotcom era and if his numbers proved out or if it was just part of irrational exuberance. Also, it happened he got married before the bubble burst, and his wife said she wasn't comfortable with all that risk so he got out.

Another friend of mine has commented a couple times that she'd like me to take a look at her finances. She mentioned on a hike once that she had her money at VG and was in total stock/intl/bond and I laughed said that was perfect. But I later learned she wasn't doing things like taking full advantage of an HSA. She never quite followed up with a plan to sit down and look at it. Maybe it'll still happen. I'd be more hesitant except she's obviously bought into the simple VG strategy so it'd just be a matter of optimizing for taxes where possible.

I wrote up a few page document of education and advice for my son. I know he's looked at it but not really absorbed it. When he started a new job he asked details about the 401K and other benefits and I told him, then said that doc I'd sent him really had all this, and he said "Yeah, I know, but that's at home and I'm at work now."
 
99% of people have no interest in learning how to get rich slowly, with sacrifice. On the other hand, if you know how to get rich quick with no sacrifice, they'd be interested.
 
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