Frugal living trend associated with ER

[Dtail]

My friend who is is ~49 lives in his van in silicon valley. He's worked out the kinks of where he can park and for how long and he moves around from friends to friends depending on what social events are occurring. I love it whenever he is my neighbor for a few days and I can just have him come over to hang out on demand with a minute notice.

He finances it with the proceeds from his house that he owns in Silicon Valley and rents out, and doing intermittent programming gigs (he's an incredible engineer specialized in 3D graphics engines and tool chains for games) which he usually regrets because he doesn't really need the money and his time is irreplaceable. It's interesting to see, I wouldn't want the lifestyle, but I'm glad that he's happy and having fun with it. His current pet project, figuring out how to do perfect gourmet restaurant quality poached tea eggs using his tiny rice cookers that the van solar array powers.

A bunch of us appreciate that he is very available for house/pet sitting. Having a large social network of people who have more traditional housing arrangements certainly works out well for him, when he isn't off on adventures.

Sounds interesting, but can't imagine the wife and/or dating aspect of it.

 

[Retch The Grate]

This is the style my friend has. Too small for my tastes for living, but he's not the kind of person who has ever been interested in acquiring tons of material goods.

 

[Retch The Grate]

Sounds interesting, but can't imagine the wife and/or dating aspect of it.

He moved into the van after his divorce, not sure he has any of his dates over to the van, haven't asked.

 

[NW-Bound]

My current motorhome is a class C, which is quite a bit roomier. But because of its size, I have to tow a car behind when going on an "expedition".

I have been thinking about downsizing to a class B like the above for better mobility. When in Alaska, we saw more Bs on the road than anywhere else.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Selling my class C 27 ft motor home with 43k miles for 8k. Private message me if interested.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don't think I'm the type to live in a van or RV full time for but I always thought it would be cool to try living in a tiny house. I don't know anyone who lives in one but our friends in smaller condos seem to have more free time than we do, living in a single family home with a yard.

 

[jcgc50]

We retired in our mid to late '50s. We could have kept our house which had been paid off years before but we didn't think we wanted to continue living where we were. We sold everything and moved into a 30' motorhome and we have just finished over 10 years on the road.

We enjoy public lands and rarely stay in RV parks which apparently federal law requires they be situated by both a major highway and railroad track and be packed like sardines. We've met a lot of people of all ages doing this although the last several years have seen increasing numbers of young people working from their RVs wherever they park.

We did live relatively inexpensively during that time and our assets have increased in that time.

In the last few years, spontaneous travel has become more and more difficult to the point where we both feel it's time to get off the road which we have done. There are just too many people getting on the road believing all the romanticized blog posts of life on the road. We've seen boondocking spots increasingly congested and trashed which has resulted in public land management limiting access. One example near Zion National Park found a young family who had been on the road for 6 months with three small children in an 11' trailer. The husband was hauling off their waste in a hand-pulled tank more than once a day and apparently finding someplace to dump it in the desert surroundings. BLM is now limiting access to that area.

With the U.S. west pretty much on fire every summer it is difficult to figure out where to go.

Glad we had the chance to do it for a few years when good wireless internet was available and it wasn't jam-packed with people. We met a lot of people and made a lot of friends of all ages and we have really enjoyed that.

 

[DeborahB]

And people thought hippies living in vans were strange...

 

[MarieIG]

Here is another Bay Area solution to the housing shortage and an alternative to van living - Rent the Backyard. A start up is building small apartments in Bay Area back yards and will split the rental income with homeowner. Homeowners can make $10,000 to $20,000 in additional income each year, according to the company.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...-silicon-valley-housing-crisis-214444996.html

Not sure what this does to the title of the property and the extent of the obligations the homeowner has to the builder.

 

[Badger]

+1 My wife and I went to New Zealand in March this year, and rented a smaller version of this, based on the Toyota HiAce van chassis. We had all of the above, but the van wasn't very powerful, and the bed wasn't all that comfortable. If you're doing it full-time, you want to be comfortable. We had a hard time stowing all of our adventure gear in the van, and were constantly shuffling gear to get to what we need. This Mercedes looks about the right size!

My wife and I did the same thing in NZ and had the same experience over 25 years ago. It was great fun for the 2 weeks we were there. Fortunately I knew what it was going to be like since I use to travel for a month every summer in a VW van during the 70s. If my body could turn the clock back 15+ years I would do it again but not on a full time basis.


Cheers!

 

[NW-Bound]

Speaking of high housing costs in the San Francisco area, I just read the story of a young guy who lived full-time in a class C parked on the streets.

He was happy to move down to San Diego, where he was able to rent a parking spot on someone's driveway for $850/month. For that money he was also given water/electric/sewer hookup. He was so happy to be off the streets, where he was constantly in fear of being towed.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Not sure what this does to the title of the property and the extent of the obligations the homeowner has to the builder.

It is not something I would probably do but if the contract isn't loaded with gotchas it could be a win-win-win for the start-up, homeowners who would like extra income and people needing affordable housing.

I'm on the mailing list for a group that helps low income households find housing but unless the supply is increased it is still a game of musical chairs, while the backyard apartment approach actually builds more affordable units.

 

[YoungSaver]

I see a bunch of people mentioning RVs. Just an FYI, van dwelling has nothing at all in common with RVing, except for some 12 volt equipment.

 

[Major Tom]

Just an FYI, van dwelling has nothing at all in common with RVing, except for some 12 volt equipment.

Nothing at all? Really? I don't think you've seen some of the amazing conversions some of these young folk have either done themselves, or are living in.

 

[Major Tom]

Speaking of high housing costs in the San Francisco area, I just read the story of a young guy who lived full-time in a class C parked on the streets.

He was happy to move down to San Diego, where he was able to rent a parking spot on someone's driveway for $850/month. For that money he was also given water/electric/sewer hookup. He was so happy to be off the streets, where he was constantly in fear of being towed.

My goodness - $850, simply for occupying a small part of someone's driveway, with hook-ups? The SO and I went to the Gilroy Garlic Festival over the weekend. I've had it in my mind to move out to a lesser populated area for a while, so I started looking for rentals in that area. Someone is offering a patch of their driveway for an RV, with hook-ups from their house, for $900/month. It might be more rural there, but it's still a commutable distance to Silicon Valley, which I imagine is what is driving the relatively high rental prices in that area.

$850 and $900, for a small patch of land, and you have to bring your own little house? SMH.

 

[NW-Bound]

My goodness - $850, simply for occupying a small part of someone's driveway, with hook-ups? The SO and I went to the Gilroy Garlic Festival over the weekend. I've had it in my mind to move out to a lesser populated area for a while, so I started looking for rentals in that area. Someone is offering a patch of their driveway for an RV, with hook-ups from their house, for $900/month. It might be more rural there, but it's still a commutable distance to Silicon Valley, which I imagine is what is driving the relatively high rental prices in that area.

$850 and $900, for a small patch of land, and you have to bring your own little house? SMH.

Yes. And this young guy was so happy to get that spot. He has not traveled much outside of the SF/San Jose area, and was so excited about San Diego.

There's probably city ordinances against living in an RV parked on the driveway, or even in the backyard for that matter. They may not enforce it, because it is still better than having people camping out on the streets.

 

[Music Lover]

My goodness - $850, simply for occupying a small part of someone's driveway, with hook-ups? The SO and I went to the Gilroy Garlic Festival over the weekend. I've had it in my mind to move out to a lesser populated area for a while, so I started looking for rentals in that area. Someone is offering a patch of their driveway for an RV, with hook-ups from their house, for $900/month. It might be more rural there, but it's still a commutable distance to Silicon Valley, which I imagine is what is driving the relatively high rental prices in that area.

$850 and $900, for a small patch of land, and you have to bring your own little house? SMH.

Each to their own but you couldn't pay me to live like that.

 

[NW-Bound]

Even cheaper is the way some people live completely outside of the city limits and pay no rent.

Some years ago, there was a stir in the media about an LA professional musician/composer who got tired of paying rent. Glenn Morrissette bought an old class B motorhome, and hit the road while still doing gigs. He later upgraded to a larger and more expensive used class B, and traveled the country some more. After a few years, in no small part due to the high fuel cost, he bought and retrofitted a VW van, and is still living in it.

I followed Morrissette over the years. He deleted his detailed chronicles at some point, which is unfortunate because his story was interesting as he traveled across the country. He recently restricted access to his Instagram account, which did not have any narrative other than the few occasional photos of his rig parked in isolated spots in the West.

Just found an old archived Web article which says Glenn took to this lifestyle in 2009. He is about 50 now.

 

[brydanger]

But it sounds like really young people who are pursuing the #vanlife.
They associate it with FIRE.

I can say as someone who has lived in (or at least around) this community for several years that there is rarely a correlation between vanlife and FIRE... but that's not to say that there can't be one.

For us living and traveling in a van was one of the largest components to retiring early (we quit our jobs before my 35th birthday).

As others have said here, my own personal hell is sleeping in a Walmart parking lot (and sleeping in most RV parks or even campgrounds isn't much better)... but like everything else it's all what you make of it...

We lived full time in a self-converted van for 7yeaers traveling/exploring North America and it was the time of our life, but, while we spent our time exploring the backroads, fire roads and parks (and left very little unseen) we almost never paid for a campground and refused to sleep in Walmart parking lots.

What started as a sabbatical to drive from BC to Panama quickly became a new way of living nomadically for us... but it also meant 7years of cutting costs more than any other way I can imagine and allowing our real estate investments to grow.
We didn't view vanlife as a way of running away (and certainly didn't view it as living in strife) but as an opportunity to live with almost zero expenses while being very creative with our finances and investments and choosing when to splurge on the things we wanted (usually experiences/trips with friends on their vacation time).

Vanlife will not inherently lead you to FIRE... but it CAN certainly help teach you about many shared principals (epic downsizing, wants vs needs, what you actually want to do with your time, how much you like your spouse/partner, which part of the country/world you want to live in long term... and yes... how to RE).

For us, it was never meant to be a long term solution, we simply kept checking in with ourselves day by day and knew that when we were no longer perfectly happy that we would move on... either back into a home-base we created for ourselves in Portland or onto something new.

Last year we realized that we didn't want to give up the nomadic lifestyle but wanted the ability to roam a bit further than the van offered, so we moved onto a boat and started teaching ourselves to sail through the caribbean (a lifelong dream).

For most people we meet sailing/cruising, downsizing to a boat was the hardest part of the transition. For us the boat is a massive upgrade from the lifestyle we're used to living, and once again... we couldn't be happier!

 

[Major Tom]

Some years ago, there was a stir in the media about an LA professional musician/composer who got tired of paying rent. Glenn Morrissette bought an old class B motorhome, and hit the road while still doing gigs.

I remember Glenn, and the various articles about him. Though I do not remember many details about his life, I was impressed with the fact that he was continuing to pursue his profession, and didn't seem to be suffering much of a reduction in quality of life, due to living in a class B. He was making it work for him.

It's a shame that he deleted his archives, but I can't blame a person for not wanting a journal of their life up permanently online. A year or two ago, there was a couple with a YouTube channel, who did a great job of documenting all the restoration and maintenance work they put into their class B. There was a lot of good "how to" information in their many videos. Then, one day, they announced that they were deleting their channel, along with all the videos. They wanted to continue their life on the road without a commitment to be constantly maintaining and updating their channel, and without the responsibilities of being, in some way, public figures. I was a little upset at the time as I enjoyed the channel, but couldn't blame them. I didn't know them personally, and had no connection with them, other than watching their videos. It was an odd feeling of helplessness, knowing that I would never hear from them again. I got over it though! For the life of me, I can't even remember the name of their channel now. I hope they are having a magnificent life on the road.

Which reminds me - the latch on one of the cupboard doors on my class B broke last night. Time to head out and install a new one. That's the thing with these older vans - it's important to keep up with the maintenance. Thank goodness I have an older class B, or I'd have a lot of spare time on my hands, and nothing to do

 

[NW-Bound]

I first learned about RV'ing when I read Andy Baird's blog, which I knew only because it was mentioned on this forum, by Martha if my memory serves.

Playing vagabond and doing boondocking, either in the wilderness or stealth camping in a town, felt adventurous and appealed to me, and that started my interest in getting an RV. And knowing what I don't know, that started me on reading and researching on the Web about different aspects of RV'ing.

And while full-time RV'ing is not for me, I found that I enjoyed doing road trips with an RV.

Now, 9 years and 50K miles later, I am glad I did it. And I will continue for a while. Ah, the pleasure of pulling in to a trail head, taking a hike, then going back to your motorhome for lunch and a nap, before continuing on down the road. No visit to disgusting public toilets, no looking for a motel to spend the night, a restaurant to have a meal unless I want to. That's why I have spent so much money on gas, and still think it is worth it.

PS. I bought my class C used with 25K miles. At this point, I have spent more on gas and tires than the purchase cost. Had I bought a new one, the depreciation would dwarf the operating costs.

 

[explanade]

Can you keep up on ER and other websites while RV'ing or sailing?

 

[Major Tom]

I first learned about RV'ing when I read Andy Baird's blog, which I knew only because it was mentioned on this forum, by Martha if my memory serves.

I learned about Andy from you, NW-Bound. He inspired me too. I liked his detailed and thoughtful approach to his newfound lifestyle. Living in his class C LazyDaze seemed to add a great deal of enjoyment to his life. It was a welcome contrast to those who seem to have been pushed into the lifestyle by circumstances, and are getting by the best they can.

Can you keep up on ER and other websites while RV'ing or sailing?

In the past, people who needed a regular connection to the internet used satellite services. I believe they were pricey. In addition to that, they necessitated deploying an unwieldy satellite dish, either permanently on top of the vehicle, or on the ground wherever you were camping out. In recent years, most have gravitated to the use of data plans with their cell carriers. For some, the data that already comes with their cell plan is sufficient. They either browse the internet on their phones, or use their phones as a hotspot, to supply other devices (tablet, laptops etc) with the internet. You can also use a MiFi device. It's a separate piece of equipment, about the same size and shape as a cellphone, which receives the signal from the cell carrier, and creates a WiFi signal that can be picked up by your devices. Plans, and amounts of data vary. Some providers advertise "unlimited" data, but once the data usage gets to a certain point, they severely throttle back the speed. Others are truly unlimited. Some completely cut you off once you've used your allotted amount of data. I'd quote plans I have seen recently but they change so often, it's best to research those for yourself.

Of course, you can also use whatever free WiFi you come across, but your use of the internet is going to be limited to the times you are close to a coffee shop, public library, or similar. Also, with these public networks, there are the security issues (best not to do your online banking on the free WiFi at Starbucks!)

 

[explanade]

So nobody who's RV'ing streams Netflix?

They haven't cut the cord?

Mobile data is not enough to binge seasons of shows.

But I guess people living in RVs and boats aren't couch potatoes.

 

[Major Tom]

So nobody who's RV'ing streams Netflix?

They haven't cut the cord?

Mobile data is not enough to binge seasons of shows.

Plenty of RV'ers stream videos to their hearts' content. The last time I checked, Sprint were offering 100GB/month with their MiFi device for around $65-$70/month. That's a lot of data. I don't even use that much at home! Verizon used to have true unlimited plans. I'm not sure what the latest is on their offerings.

Sure, mobile data is enough to binge seasons of shows. You just have to make sure you have the right plan