Looking for Perspective Regarding College

[Gumby]

My alma mater was ranked by U.S. News & World Report as tied for #4 in "2019 Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs". It is free*, as is the school with which it was tied. I received an excellent engineering education there and later went to an Ivy League law school.

*monetarily, at least.

 

[MichaelB]

My alma mater was ranked by U.S. News & World Report as tied for #4 in "2019 Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs". It is free*, as is the school with which it was tied. I received an excellent engineering education there and later went to an Ivy League law school.

*monetarily, at least.

Not free at all, Some have paid a very high price to help make the world a better place.

 

[Gumby]

I forgot to add that I also had a guaranteed job when I graduated.

 

[Jerry1]

I like the idea of sitting down with you son and deciding what can be done (best use) with the amount in the 529 plus any additional you are willing to spend. If he gets into an Ivey and spends all the budget, he’ll be far enough along to know whether a loan for the balance is a good idea.

I did look at the us news article and it was interesting to see the U of Mich was #5 and that in-state tuition was under $30K. Not sure where you live, but if I could get into a top ten and pay in state cost, that seems like a win win. Top 5, even better.

 

[COcheesehead]

Read the book Outliers. I highly recommend it. The author offers evidence that one of the ways of achieving success in life is first dependent on having the degree. From what school is secondary and highly overrated.

 

[jt999]

Great Idea

So, Northeastern is a school that he is exploring that has a very good co-op program. I don't know all the details but it works similar to how you described below - they have a 4.5 Year Version and Full 5 Year Version from what I understand. My daughter did not do co-ops but she did have 2 internships and I think that really helped her secure a job before graduating. As a matter of fact, she wanted a little bit longer summer but they wanted her to start late June.

Check out Co-op programs. I went to the U. of Cincinnati but as a Math major, where it wasn't available at the time. It originated in their Engineering school and that's how Dad got through. You go to school the first year and then find a co-op employer and then alternate semesters (or quarters?) of school and work. It's better than internships because they pay better and you have the same employer through your whole academic career, with increasing responsibility every time you return. The school and the co-op employer communicate on your progress. When I went there (graduated in 1975), the engineers who found co-op jobs close to home were pretty much able to pay their own way- and graduated with real-world experience and typically an offer from the co-op employer. It does take 5 years instead of 4.

 

[Amethyst]

Many state universities and Technology Institutes have fantastic STEM curricula. I was a hiring manager for a Federal agency for a few years. I won't try to list all the places our top STEM hires came from - you can get a list of "best state universities for STEM programs" and go from there.

Yes, many came to us with a student loan burden, even having attended State schools. Some STEM employers help the employee pay those off. It all depends on competition for the graduate's skill set.

 

[Rustic23]

I would look at Rice University, Houston. It is a top engineering school and there tuition policy is very generous if you qualify.

Rice University Announces Free Tuition for Low and Middle-Income Students. Rice University will offer free tuition to low- and middle-income students starting in the fall of 2019. ... Students whose families make between $65,000 and $130,000 per year could receive full-tuition scholarships.

 

[CardsFan]

So, Northeastern is a school that he is exploring that has a very good co-op program. I don't know all the details but it works similar to how you described below - they have a 4.5 Year Version and Full 5 Year Version from what I understand. My daughter did not do co-ops but she did have 2 internships and I think that really helped her secure a job before graduating. As a matter of fact, she wanted a little bit longer summer but they wanted her to start late June.

As a graduate of Northeastern's School of Engineering (1978), I highly endorse the Co-op model. Real world experience, and income to offset the cost of school. It is a 5 year plan, at least it was then.

When I went there, tuition was $2,200 for my last year, and I was able to earn enough to pay tuition and books, with a little left over (I lived at home in the Boston suburbs). Alas, that is no longer the case. Last time I looked, tuition alone was in the neighborhood of $50k-$55k

 

[Amethyst]

OP is asking about merit-based scholarships, however.

We seemed to get a lot of computer scientists from Purdue. I'm afraid I don't know their scholarship policies.

I would look at Rice University, Houston. It is a top engineering school and there tuition policy is very generous if you qualify.

Rice University Announces Free Tuition for Low and Middle-Income Students. Rice University will offer free tuition to low- and middle-income students starting in the fall of 2019. ... Students whose families make between $65,000 and $130,000 per year could receive full-tuition scholarships.

 

[Scuba]

I didn’t go to an Ivy and had a successful career, eventually making it to the C-suite of a $200M company. However, I’ve always wondered if I could have achieved more by going to an Ivy. My college education was good academically, but I didn’t develop any connections to help me build a career or secure Board seats. We don’t have children but if I did and could afford it, I’d encourage a top notch school where the network and connections gained will pay off for the rest of their lives.

Of course, that assumes the kid will take advantage of networking opportunities. I’m sure many graduate from Ivies without doing that.

One thing that might help is asking your son about dream employers and researching where they do most of their college recruiting. Depends on the career he wants. For example, I think it’s hard to get hired by a top investment banking firm without an Ivy pedigree.

 

[joeea]

So, Northeastern is a school that he is exploring that has a very good co-op program. I don't know all the details but it works similar to how you described below - they have a 4.5 Year Version and Full 5 Year Version from what I understand. My daughter did not do co-ops but she did have 2 internships and I think that really helped her secure a job before graduating. As a matter of fact, she wanted a little bit longer summer but they wanted her to start late June.

I hired many Co-Op students through the years for internships (at least two each trimester) and later for full-time work.

It's an excellent program. Virtually all the students were motivated and well-prepared. They were paid well, and learned a lot. The leaders of their Co-Op program were excellent to work with.

Northeastern is a very good school for both STEM and business. It does offer merit scholarships.

 

[PandaBear]

And finally no offense to your DS, who I'm sure is a great kid, but academics alone will not open the door to IVY league schools. Everyone has academics it's the other stuff that tips the scale.

Good Luck and yes you work hard for your money and get to decide where it goes including how much you pay for college educations.

This. My kids went to a pretty competitive high school (a private school in the Bay Area) that for many years had the most national merit semi-finalists in the state. Lots of AP classes, and tons of achievements. Most of these kids don’t get into Ivies.

Regardless of whether you decide you’re willing to pay for an Ivy, look at and apply to many other options or you may have a very disappointed student.

Also consider state schools honor colleges. They often offer separate dorms and lots of academic opportunities.

We found Mizzou, UK, Ole Miss, U of A (or was it ASU), Alabama and USC (SC) to have nice opportunities. I know there are more but thats what we looked at.

Finally, while not in the engineering realm, my dd went to a very average state school and then was accepted in to the number 11 ranked grad school in the country in her field.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It is hard to go wrong with evidence based research on picking a college and major. You can check out salaries by major and college, job prospects by major, graduation rates, etc. using the College Scorecard, Job Outlook Handbook and Payscale reports. This worked out great for our kids. They both have jobs they love with good pay and we were able to retire early, too. We told them if you can make the case for an elite, out of state or international school based on hard data like salaries, then we will consider paying for it. Otherwise, we will pay for 4 years at a state school or pay for cars if they went to community college with the money we saved on 4 year school tuition. One of our kid's entire college degree program costs less than one year of a friend's out of state school costs, and the out of state kid never graduated, while our public school kid graduated and makes near the top of the Payscale reports for post college salary.

 

[LOL!]

This thread is about a non-problem in my opinion. I was early retired with 2 kids in college at one time. Our portfolio was up 2 years in a row by more than the TOTAL cost of a 4-year Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT/Stanford education. With income as high as the jt999 (the OP) reports which is several times my highest income, I realize that posting is about garnering sympathy, but it ain't coming from me.

Basically, somebody has to attend these expensive colleges and it might as well be the children of people who can trivially afford it such as the OP's family. The child probably won't get in anyways since they are very selective, so it is not something to really worry about.

 

[EarlyBirdly]

My Son moved to California, became a resident, and attended Berkeley damn near free.

"Resident" is the key word.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don't think I can stomach ~300K for a 4 year degree (and heaven help us if it's a 5 year program) and I don't want him saddled with loans (under any circumstance). We do have a sizable amount saved in 529 but still have a very significant gap.

Just some food for thought, but for $300K you could buy a house for your offspring in a low - medium cost of living area, plus pay for a state school degree or get a degree alone from a more elite school. If I was given that choice, personally I would pick the house, live mortgage free my adult life, pick a good state school and major with a high ROI, and retire early.

 

[LOL!]

For $300K one can meet and marry a graduate that should have a great job and keep one living the dream for the rest of their life.

 

[cathy63]

So, Northeastern is a school that he is exploring that has a very good co-op program. I don't know all the details but it works similar to how you described below - they have a 4.5 Year Version and Full 5 Year Version from what I understand.

DH used to have co-op students from Northeastern on his teams at work. He always thought it was an excellent program and I know the company hired several of them full-time after graduation. Of course he also has stories about a few who saw it as more of an opportunity to experience Southern California than to gain work experience, and he had to have a few "shape up or ship out" conversations and a couple of them did get fired.

My Son moved to California, became a resident, and attended Berkeley damn near free.

"Resident" is the key word.

I guess this was a while ago? Berkeley is far from free for CA residents nowadays, and you can't claim residency until you've lived here for at least a year and can prove that you've supported yourself from your own earnings for two years. This is probably not a viable path for OP's son if he wants to start college next year.

One other thing to look at is the 4-year graduation rate for whatever school he attends. Cal Tech, while probably just as expensive as an Ivy, is a great engineering school that graduates over 80% of its students in 4 years. A lot of state schools (including the UCs) can't make that claim, and when you figure 5+ years there vs 4 years at the more expensive private school, the cost differential can shrink quite a bit.

 

[imoldernu]

I posted this on another site, but think it might belong here too.

This is going to sound snotty... but it's not meant to be.
For the student AND the parent... the college decision should be the number 1 priority, and accordingly, the preparation may well be the most important part of the next four years... monetarily as well as for future well being.

Unfortunately the selection process does not always reach to that level. Too often it is influenced by preconceived notions ... "We can only afford community college", "The guidance counselor suggested 'XYZ' or, "Your cousin Joey went there".

I'd like to cite as example that I know of (My Daughter in Law's work with her three children to work with and select the optimal school, and cost.) For each of the two sons and one daughter, she spent many.. many hours... researching, writing, visiting and seeking out the best combination of aid and future potential. This involved much work on the part of the kids, too.. as now, many schools not only look at grades, SAT scores or records of achievement outside of school... but also require the writing of essays.

In each case, submission of admission requests to as many as seven or eight colleges. I thought "crazy" at the time, but here's what happened. (I should add that all three kids are somewhat above average, so that helped.)

#1. Four year renewable scholarship for the first four years, and now in the second year of post graduate for which he also received a large subsidy.

#2. Received a Stamps scholarship
Stamps for four years... 100% Tuition, room and board, books, and $10,000 for an international trip during the last years of school. (he now has offers for postgraduate scholarships for his doctorate.

#3. Full tuition scholarship @ U of F in Tampa, and now a paid Associate in the Advanced Psychology Program pursuing PG degree.

Along the way dozens of rejections or failure to receive scholarship offers. Never talked about it this way, but I would guess many hundreds of hours in research and prep.

At this point, in today's dollars, I would guess between $800K and $1+M... and maybe more.

More discipline than I could muster, but a wonderful payoff, allowing my Son and DIL to retire @ 60, with no debt.

 

[imoldernu]

Instead of quoting... best thing to do is to go to Niche, for specific ratings, costs and admission policy.

And, about "need" being required... yes and no... My school nominal costs is about $65K/yr, but the average scholarship is $41+...
Annual scholarship fund is $35M, for 1800 students.

Check it out here, for Bowdoin, and any other school.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/bowdoin-college/

 

[RobbieB]

I'm pleased to see that my old school is #23 and priced below it's neighbors on the list.

Go Blue!

 

[Osprey]

Georgia Tech has a co-op program and interesting research opportunities.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Georgia Tech has a co-op program and interesting research opportunities.

I know a young man who just graduated with highest honors in computer engineering from there—he could have gone anywhere including Ivies and no question that his parents would have paid, and he picked Tech.

 

[SnowballCamper]

1. Choice of major is most important decision. This is difficult for a 19yo to do (allow him to change his mind). The important part is to choose one with income potential (Engineering over liberal arts is a great start). Twenty years of moderately satisfying work can earn you the ability to do what you want for 30+ years.

2. Choice of school is about the culture at the school. This means to go visit, and talk to current students (especially the ones not giving the tour).

2a. Once school starts, pick classes from only the best professors until the choice of major is final.

3. I think the advantage for highly selective schools is only the network. For an introvert like myself, that wouldn't be capitalized upon. If the student is an extrovert, then he'll get the advantage of that network.

4. Scholarships come from many more sources than the school. Make the student apply for them if you can't "afford" the bill. BTW, with your income you can afford the bill, it's just a matter of what is more important to you.