Coronavirus - Health and preparedness aspects - II

[Gumby]

This is the thread to discuss the health and preparedness aspects of the coronavirus COVID-19. There are two other threads - one for the financial impacts of the coronavirus and one for the impact on travel. Please choose the appropriate thread for your comments and do not repeat the same post in multiple threads (see the Community Rules regarding multi-posting).

This is a undoubtedly a situation of concern to many, but it behooves us all to post in a sober and responsible manner. Factual information, with appropriate support/reference, is best. Reasonable and concrete suggestions for action are also appropriate. However, fear mongering and the promotion of rumors is not. As a general rule, before you post, ask yourself "Am I confident this is true?" and "Will this be useful to others or am I just venting?" The "hot topic" designation is turned on to give everyone a pause in which they can answer those questions.

Thank you,

The Moderator Team

 

[LRDave]

Many thanks to the Mods! I hope the community will take this post to heart and keep to the topics of each thread.

 

[REWahoo]

Ok, I'll go first on the preparedness subject:

DW and I just returned from a trip to Costco. No more crowded than usual without obvious signs of more than a couple of folks stocking up in preparation for a big hunker down.

However, the lady checking off our purchases at the door looked at our two bundles of TP and said we were lucky we came in today as yesterday they sold out of TP, bottled water, canned chicken, canned corn, canned green beans, etc...

 

[LARS]

Common sense prevails in situations like these. Avoid crowds where possible. Carry a hand sanitizer (at least 60% alcohol based) when out and about. Wash hands after returning home. And, most importantly, work real hard to not touch your face (mouth, nose, ears) if you haven’t washed your hands.

Beyond that? Live your life.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

I would like to hear what is recommended for rational preparation. The above post implied people are stocking up on staples in preparation for a long “snow day.” Hand sanitizer would seem prudent but has it been proven effective? What about masks? Are they really effective as well?

 

[Gumby]

Here is a study by the National Institutes of Health of the social isolation measures (quarantines/bans on gatherings) employed by different cities to combat the 1918 flu pandemic. As might be expected, they found that early and prolonged intervention by authorities led to lower mortality rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1849867/

 

[stepford]

Just want to give a shout out to the mods for tamping down the fear and rumors. The "other" thread did have some useful information and may have served a purpose in knocking some of us out of our complacency, but it had gotten to the point of fomenting panic.

That said, largely as a result of the other thread and the recent CDC "get ready for potential disruptions" announcement, I've decided on at least a minimal level of preparedness - 2 weeks worth of food for the people and animals in my house. I bought about half of it today and there were no signs of crowds, panic buying or shortages in several Southern California grocery stores. I did see my first shopper wearing a mask though...

In any case, it is my expectation (again largely in line with CDC predictions) that sooner or later we will all be exposed. So any "prepping" I'm doing is just to accommodate potential short term disruptions in supply rather than attempting to create some kind of virus proof environment - which I think is unrealistic for most of us.

 

[NW-Bound]

We just went to Costco, but not to get anything to stockpile. Pantry and the two fridges are still full, and my wife said we still had lots of TP. Just bought some bananas and a bottle of probiotics, because that was what we needed.

Saw plenty of TP at the local Costco.

 

[W2R]

More W2R style prepping!

If the water supply is interrupted, then I think I'd want paper bowls and plates, and plastic silverware so that I didn't have to waste precious bottled water on washing dishes. Therefore I bought 150 paper bowls.

OK, I admit it; I am not a great fan of washing dishes (or anything else resembling w*rk). Don't know if this is prepping or making excuses for using paper plates.

I plan to rely on soap-and-water, instead of hand sanitizer. As for masks, they are getting hard to find and expensive.

 

[FIYes]

I have given some thought to preparedness during the past couple of weeks. If we need to quarantine either officially or self quarantined...we are not prepared.

To what extent should we prepare? I honestly don’t know. I think a certain amount of preparedness is always prudent, but I just haven’t felt this is the time to go all in. My feelings on this could change.

On a positive note, I realize that we are in a favorable position should we need to get ready for a quarantine. We are retired so we don’t need to worry about going to job each day. Many people don’t have that luxury. I think about the many, many people who live paycheck to paycheck, they can’t afford to hunker down and miss work. Also, we have the advantage of starting with a fairly full pantry...DH has a tendency to overbuy when he finds a good sale at the grocery and I am fond of Costco. Hey, with my Costco fondness we are already good on toilet paper [emoji3]. However, I also know that while we wouldn’t be hungry in a couple of weeks, our meals could start to get out of balance.

What have I done with all this in mind? Only a few little things. I was in Costco a week ago and along with toilet paper and laundry detergent, I picked up some canned chicken. I also picked up some multivitamins. I considered but did not pick up an extra can of coffee and some shelf stable milk. I probably will get the extra coffee next time because it would definitely get used. But stocking up on something we don’t typically use like powdered milk...I’m not there yet.

One thing I will think about is cat food and cat litter. Again these are items that will definitely get used and will keep.
.

 

[Pellice]

We just went to Costco, but not to get anything to stockpile. Pantry and the two fridges are still full, and my wife said we still had lots of TP. Just bought some bananas and a bottle of probiotics.

Saw plenty of TP at the local Costco.

Like you, I have too much food in the house. But I wonder about future shortages of Chinese-produced household items. For example, furnace filters. I need to replace my furnace filter, and I do have a spare. But I could see that as the sort of thing that disappears for a while. It's on my list to pick up at Costco next week. (Heaven forbid a FIRE'd person goes to Costco on a weekend!)

By the way, Costo.com's freeze-dried emergency food stocks, usually an interesting section, seem to be all sold out. But their excellent big package of individually wrapped salmon portions is on sale!

 

[REWahoo]

Don't know if this is prepping or making excuses for using paper plates.

Who needs an excuse for using paper plates!?!

 

[steelyman]

Who needs an excuse for using paper plates!?!

Not me. I keep 3 different sizes in the pantry at all times.

 

[NW-Bound]

Like you, I have too much food in the house. But I wonder about future shortages of Chinese-produced household items. For example, furnace filters. I need to replace my furnace filter, and I do have a spare. But I could see that as the sort of thing that disappears for a while. It's on my list to pick up at Costco next week. (Heaven forbid a FIRE'd person goes to Costco on a weekend!)...

Yes, we use so much stuff from China it's hard to stock up on everything. Where do you put it?

About food, my wife likes to buy stuff on sale, and we always have more than we need. And I have been the one to check out the stock to rotate it. She only buys.

I welcome a lockdown so we can eat all that food. I suspect we have way more meat than canned or frozen veggie, but well, maybe this will get my wife to eat more meat. She only buys, and does not care to eat it.

 

[W2R]

Who needs an excuse for using paper plates!?!

Not me. I keep 3 different sizes in the pantry at all times.

Thank you! You are making me feel much less lazy than I really am.

 

[ls99]

Who needs an excuse for using paper plates!?!

I do. At my camp. They serve as fuel or fire starter in the woodstove.
At home... ditto. at least during heating season.

And at 14 acres, if needed the camp is good isolation from the rest of the world.
Can use local wildlife as meals on the hoof, until needed.

 

[Corporateburnout]

A promising news on a potential CV vaccine.

An Israeli company MIGAL has a vaccine that may be available for production in 90 days.

https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENC...weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101

 

[razztazz]

A promising news on a potential CV vaccine.

An Israeli company MIGAL has a vaccine that may be available for production in 90 days.

https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENC...weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101

Ninety days, eh? Who'd want to take it?

 

[Sunset]

We also went to Costco today.
The gas station had tiny lines, which is unusual, but could be because gas here is expensive $2.61 at Costco ($2.79 other places).

The parking lot was pretty full.
Inside there was no panic buying, we bought 12 lbs of brown rice which had an expiry date of 10 months from now.
Also got 2 packs of toilet paper, there was a lot there.
Spent $185 in total which is about twice what we normally spend.

Will have to pick up my booze at Binny's as they are having a sale and it's cheaper than Costco Also Costco no longer had the Kirkland Rye.

 

[brewer12345]

I would like to hear what is recommended for rational preparation. The above post implied people are stocking up on staples in preparation for a long “snow day.” Hand sanitizer would seem prudent but has it been proven effective? What about masks? Are they really effective as well?

You want at least two weeks of shelf stable/frozen food that is hopefully the things you would normally eat. Same for your pets. Any medication you use (whether OTC or prescription) would be a good idea to stock up on. It might not be a bad idea to have on hand any cold/flu medication you would normally take. A box of disposable rubber gloves would be a good idea, as would sufficient stores of anything else you routinely use (toiletries, paper towels, TP, cleaning products, booze, etc.). Hand sanitizer isn't a bad idea although it is unclear how effective it is on the WuFlu. If you can find Hibiclens locally or on line it definitely will kill pretty much anything.

If this is all stuff you will buy/use anyway, I would go ahead and get a month's worth. The cost is trivial for most board members and, like I said, you will use it anyway.

It doesn't matter whether or not masks work because they are pretty much unobtanium at this point.

 

[Bongleur]

Disinfection of surfaces & skin

I'll repeat this. It takes 78% or 80% ethyl alcohol to kill the tested coronavirus (not Wuhan) in 60 seconds. 70% takes 10 minutes of wet contact. Purel is only 62%.

B.A.C takes 10 minutes are various concentrations.

What I don't know is if its OK to use denatured ethanol on your skin. There are various chemicals used for denaturing. Otherwise, need to pay the 27% Fed tax on drinking alcohol. Or buy a still and some potatoes.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/pdf

Persistence of coronaviruses on inanimate surfaces and their inactivation with biocidal agent. Kampf2020

 

[Gumby]

I think this is a good exercise for all of us in making sure that we are prepared for whatever life may throw at us, and not just financially. Plenty of natural disasters (e.g. - hurricanes) can and have disrupted supply chains for extended periods of time.

For that reason, the young wife and I have for years made it a practice to maintain sufficient supplies to make it through two months or so without the need to resupply. So, for example, suppose we use about one jar of mayonnaise per month. At any point in time, we have one partially used jar in the fridge and two on the shelf in the pantry. When the one in the fridge is empty, we take out one from the pantry and put mayo on our shopping list for the next trip to the grocery. We do that for all our regular comestibles. It helps, of course, that we have plenty of room to store stuff.

If it becomes necessary to stay in our home, I would go out to the grocery at the last minute only for some fresh meat, vegetables, dairy and eggs. But these are just nice to have. We could still survive without.

 

[explanade]

I looked for wipes but the common Clorox and Lysol ones use quaternary ammonium compounds, which are harsh and have some suspicion of adverse health effects.

There are 70% alcohol wipes but more for medical, not cleaning purposes.

They're all off the shelves in any event.

Local Target has Purell wipes in travel sizes, 15 for $1.50. But they're not alcohol like the Purell bottles.

 

[LARS]

I'll repeat this. It takes 78% or 80% ethyl alcohol to kill the tested coronavirus (not Wuhan) in 60 seconds. 70% takes 10 minutes of wet contact. Purel is only 62%.



B.A.C takes 10 minutes are various concentrations.



What I don't know is if its OK to use denatured ethanol on your skin. There are various chemicals used for denaturing. Otherwise, need to pay the 27% Fed tax on drinking alcohol. Or buy a still and some potatoes.



https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/pdf



Persistence of coronaviruses on inanimate surfaces and their inactivation with biocidal agent. Kampf2020

FWIW, CDC is saying on their webpage first Defense is washing hands; however, use of hand sanitizer with at least 60% is mentioned as well:

"Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after going to the bathroom; before eating; and after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.

If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty."


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/prevention-treatment.html

 

[Sunset]

I'll repeat this. It takes 78% or 80% ethyl alcohol to kill the tested coronavirus (not Wuhan) in 60 seconds. 70% takes 10 minutes of wet contact. Purel is only 62%.

B.A.C takes 10 minutes are various concentrations.

What I don't know is if its OK to use denatured ethanol on your skin. There are various chemicals used for denaturing. Otherwise, need to pay the 27% Fed tax on drinking alcohol. Or buy a still and some potatoes.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/pdf

Persistence of coronaviruses on inanimate surfaces and their inactivation with biocidal agent. Kampf2020

My plan for disinfecting surfaces is my long time friend bleach.

For my skin, soap & water, and we have couple of bottles of hydrogen peroxide which is great for cuts, and safe to use on skin.