Coronavirus - Health and preparedness aspects - II

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Avoid supermarkets? I don't think I could do that for long. I am trying to think of a process to use for shopping, checking out, bagging, unbagging, and disinfection to reduce the chances of infection. When I got to thinking about it, there are various ways for cross contamination at checkout lanes and in shopping carts that you could pick up the virus from someone that used the cart or checkout lanes hours earlier (and I'm not even talking about the handle where you push the cart). The virus can live on a surface for hours or days depending on various factors. And when two objects meet (including with people's hands) even for an instant, the virus can spread from object to object to object.
 
daylatedollarshort said:
So far no change for us. Last week we took a crowded train into San Francisco to see Hamilton, had dinner out twice and and went out dancing at a crowded venue with friends. Maybe we will cut back on going out if things get worse but right now it seems like the odds are still pretty low so I'm going to have fun while I can. I just read an article where someone in New York city mentioned that people there weren't going to restaurants, movies and the theater, even though there haven't been any conformed cases there. That is interesting because we have had some cases here in Northern California, plus the whole debacle at Travis Air Force base, and yet every place we've been to this week has been packed. There have been news stories about business being off in San Francisco's Chinatown, though.
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Well NYC now has their first case in Manhattan.
 
I got to thinking about how we are having cases that seem to be unrelated to travel etc, and began thinking what if coronavirus has been in the US and many parts of the world for sometime this flu season. It is not till people became aware of the China cases that they started testing specifically for for coronavirus. The symptoms are similar to the flu, and deaths do occur with the flu. In fact I kept hearing how bad the flu was this season, with most states being in the "red zone" for flu cases. Perhaps many cases of coronavirus were being chalked up as the flu? Maybe that is just a far fetched theory.
 
simple girl said:
In our area, we received a print out that supposedly is on hospital letterhead which said the CDC told them they have a patient in their facility that "presumptively tested positive for COVID-19".

This may be a hoax, but it might be real.
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Well, it's not a hoax. Two presumptive COVID-19 cases here on the West Coast of Florida. One is in a hospital less than 3 miles from my house.

Department of Health Announces Two Presumptive Positive COVID-19 Cases in Florida

Will be interesting to see what happens to the local store supply now.
 
Hopeful said:
I got to thinking about how we are having cases that seem to be unrelated to travel etc, and began thinking what if coronavirus has been in the US and many parts of the world for sometime this flu season. It is not till people became aware of the China cases that they started testing specifically for for coronavirus. The symptoms are similar to the flu, and deaths do occur with the flu. In fact I kept hearing how bad the flu was this season, with most states being in the "red zone" for flu cases. Perhaps many cases of coronavirus were being chalked up as the flu? Maybe that is just a far fetched theory.
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That theory has occurred to me too... So maybe not so far fetched, especially with ~80% of the CV cases being considered mild.

For me, I'm not changing any of my travel, shopping, eating out habits... At least not yet....
 
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Hopeful said:
I got to thinking about how we are having cases that seem to be unrelated to travel etc, and began thinking what if coronavirus has been in the US and many parts of the world for sometime this flu season. It is not till people became aware of the China cases that they started testing specifically for for coronavirus. The symptoms are similar to the flu, and deaths do occur with the flu. In fact I kept hearing how bad the flu was this season, with most states being in the "red zone" for flu cases. Perhaps many cases of coronavirus were being chalked up as the flu? Maybe that is just a far fetched theory.
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Highly likely during January, however with a global death rate of 3.4% for confirmed cases, it has probably been the long incubation period that allowed us to sit calmly.

To see the 3.4% death rate, just divide total deaths by total confirmed cases https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

The overall rate would be lower as mild cases are not reported and even severe cases in China were refused hospitalization and testing.
 
Hopeful said:
I got to thinking about how we are having cases that seem to be unrelated to travel etc, and began thinking what if coronavirus has been in the US and many parts of the world for sometime this flu season. It is not till people became aware of the China cases that they started testing specifically for for coronavirus. The symptoms are similar to the flu, and deaths do occur with the flu. In fact I kept hearing how bad the flu was this season, with most states being in the "red zone" for flu cases. Perhaps many cases of coronavirus were being chalked up as the flu? Maybe that is just a far fetched theory.
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Since Flu has a very specific test, I would doubt any doctor would "chalk it up" if the diagnostics said otherwise. Are there some completely un-diagnosed deaths out there? maybe, but the idea that Covid-19 is the real suspect behind a very active flu season doesn't hold water.
 
copyright1997reloaded said:
Maybe this year is time for that multi-month do some more of the Appalachian Trail that I keep putting off. No crowded airports - spend as much time as I can away from other humans. :)
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As unexpected as it sounds, you're more likely to catch it on the AT if the norovirus is any indication; the incidence of norovirus transmission on the AT is very high.

GenXguy said:
Avoid supermarkets? I don't think I could do that for long. I am trying to think of a process to use for shopping, checking out, bagging, unbagging, and disinfection to reduce the chances of infection. When I got to thinking about it, there are various ways for cross contamination at checkout lanes and in shopping carts that you could pick up the virus from someone that used the cart or checkout lanes hours earlier (and I'm not even talking about the handle where you push the cart). The virus can live on a surface for hours or days depending on various factors. And when two objects meet (including with people's hands) even for an instant, the virus can spread from object to object to object.
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I don't believe we can shut-in for four or five months. Maybe if I was a 75 year old smoker I could and could convince DW. But that ain't happinin'



So plan 2 is a reduction/ protection/decontamination protocol. Reduce contact (don't leave the house unless really important). Wear an N95 mask in public. Carry the fewest things in public (leave the wallet, just take the credit card). Use the trunk as a dirty zone (leave all items you or others have touched there). Spray anything you remove (keys, credit card, phone). Driver's area should then remain uncontaminated. At home, use a specific "dirty area" to set items being brought into the house. Spray and wait for contact time, and remove each item. Wash your hands. Presume that your clothes or other body surfaces don't have enough virus to worry about.



This might sound extreme, but I think could become routine. If we learn more about transmission, it could be relaxed, but based on the Diamond Princess transmission rate during quarantine, even the above steps seem less than guaranteed to prevent transmission.
 
Aerides said:
Since Flu has a very specific test, I would doubt any doctor would "chalk it up" if the diagnostics said otherwise. Are there some completely un-diagnosed deaths out there? maybe, but the idea that Covid-19 is the real suspect behind a very active flu season doesn't hold water.
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When I read "Hopeful"s post, I didn't read it that way. With so few being tested and with so many CV cases being mild, it's easy to make the jump that there's a lot more CV cases out there than the current numbers indicate. However, I seriously doubt that CV is the cause of very active flu season numbers.
 
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We have our annual physicals on Wednesday and I am a wee bit nervous about going into the clinic perfectly healthy. Am I risking more by getting the physical and exposing myself to potential virus?

This is eastern Washington, which *may* be ok right now but all it would have taken is someone from Seattle visiting here a week or so ago and giving it to the locals.
 
sengsational said:
A
So plan 2 is a reduction/ protection/decontamination protocol. Reduce contact (don't leave the house unless really important). Wear an N95 mask in public. Carry the fewest things in public (leave the wallet, just take the credit card). Use the trunk as a dirty zone (leave all items you or others have touched there). Spray anything you remove (keys, credit card, phone). Driver's area should then remain uncontaminated. At home, use a specific "dirty area" to set items being brought into the house. Spray and wait for contact time, and remove each item. Wash your hands. Presume that your clothes or other body surfaces don't have enough virus to worry about.

This might sound extreme, but I think could become routine. If we learn more about transmission, it could be relaxed, but based on the Diamond Princess transmission rate during quarantine, even the above steps seem less than guaranteed to prevent transmission.
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I assume you don't have the Jerry Garcia beard of your avatar if you're planning on using the N95...

Anyway, it does sound a bit extreme to me. If the virus is so ubiquitous that such measures are necessary then pretty much everybody will be exposed before long, as very few can or will take the measures you describe. I am taking a milder (and no doubt less effective) approach - avoiding crowds and close quarters contact with others, frequent hand washing. But I am not spraying down every item that comes into the house. Maybe this will be good enough maybe it won't.

I live in a populous suburban area and my wife teaches part time so some exposure to the community is unavoidable. I guess I'm practicing a sort of "harm reduction" strategy - hopefully lessening my risk but not eliminating it. If the virus is so persistent and contagious that I get it anyway then I suspect so will 99% of the rest of people in my area and I'll cast my lot with them.
 
No facial hair, hehe! I realize that sometimes I find myself thinking people here look like their avitar, but some (many) aren't even the right gender.


Unlike many, but like many, our household has no obligation to go out on a periodic basis except for food.
 
GenXguy said:
Avoid supermarkets? I don't think I could do that for long. I am trying to think of a process to use for shopping, checking out, bagging, unbagging, and disinfection to reduce the chances of infection. When I got to thinking about it, there are various ways for cross contamination at checkout lanes and in shopping carts that you could pick up the virus from someone that used the cart or checkout lanes hours earlier (and I'm not even talking about the handle where you push the cart). The virus can live on a surface for hours or days depending on various factors. And when two objects meet (including with people's hands) even for an instant, the virus can spread from object to object to object.
Click to expand...

I've recently started actually using the store provided wipes to clean the handle of the shopping cart. Other than that, only my usual precautions. I wash my hands before I put my groceries away. At least I'm not getting more germs on the packaging than already is there. I wash my hands before preparing food. Of course, wash raw foods before eating or prepping. I wash my hands after going through the day's mail.
 
Aerides said:
Since Flu has a very specific test, I would doubt any doctor would "chalk it up" if the diagnostics said otherwise. Are there some completely un-diagnosed deaths out there? maybe, but the idea that Covid-19 is the real suspect behind a very active flu season doesn't hold water.
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Active doesn't necessarily mean severe. . This year certainly isn't as bad 2 years ago which result in over 60K flu related deaths in the US alone.

The "quick" flu tests they do at urgent care aren't really the gold standard.So could it be Covid-19 I don't have enough knowledge to make even an educated guess. What about people who thought they just had a bad "airplane" cold and didn't even go to the doctor?
 
REWahoo said:
Why not use one of the new curbside pick up services all the groceries are now offering?
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This may be useful for avoiding the people shopping, especially if you're not feeling well yourself. The items purchased would still be as "contaminated" as if you took them off the shelf yourself. Plus, the person packing your order is an unknown quantity healthwise.
 
Car-Guy said:
When I read "Hopeful"s post, I didn't read it that way. With so few being tested and with so many CV cases being mild, it's easy to make the jump that there's a lot more CV cases out there than the current numbers indicate. However, I seriously doubt that CV is the cause of very active flu season numbers.
Click to expand...

If there are "a lot" more CV cases out there undiagnosed, the mortality rate would then be completely different, maybe more akin to the flu that we don't panic about?
 
gwraigty said:
This may be useful for avoiding the people shopping, especially if you're not feeling well yourself. The items purchased would still be as "contaminated" as if you took them off the shelf yourself. Plus, the person packing your order is an unknown quantity healthwise.
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this time of year I wear gloves when grocery shopping. Use wipes from the store. Use self check when possible. Bag all fridge and freezer food separately.

Get home wash hands...Milk cartons and the like get a quick Lysol wipe. produce can't really do that. Then I wash my hands.

the nonperishable items say in the bags for about 48 hours. We have sub zero temps so I swap out the empty bags and deep freeze them on my screen porch.


I started this routine during the deadly 17-18 season when my DH was waiting for open heart surgery in early Spring.
 
Nemo2 said:
I recall, in Riyadh, we used to rinse fruits/veggies in Milton.

I think this is the same/similar: https://www.amazon.com/MILTON-STERILLSING-FLUID-Health-Beauty/dp/B002GP7ZCI
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I looked it up...bleach. Probably a rinse is required after using this? I have (for my brewing hobby) an acid based sanitizer (Star San), which is a no-rinse sanitizer. Needs 30 second contact time, but I'm not sure of its effectiveness on viruses. It's great for bacteria, but wouldn't trust it for anti viral.
 
Fermion said:
We have our annual physicals on Wednesday and I am a wee bit nervous about going into the clinic perfectly healthy. Am I risking more by getting the physical and exposing myself to potential virus?



This is eastern Washington, which *may* be ok right now but all it would have taken is someone from Seattle visiting here a week or so ago and giving it to the locals.
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I was there last week. But I feel fine! :)
 
Gumby said:
Last week, we made a sign for ourselves and posted it on the back door, which is our primary entrance. It says, simply, "wash your hands". We hope to develop the habit of washing our hands whenever we come in the house.
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That's a good idea, and we've done that.

But consider this:

  1. You drive into the garage.
  2. You put you hand on the handle to open the car door.
  3. You put your hand on the car door to close it
  4. You put your hand on the doorknob of the door to the house.
  5. You put your hand on the doorknob of the door to the bathroom.
  6. You put your hand on the faucet control.

IOW, you have five surfaces that could hold the virus, plus the surfaces of the things you brought into the house.

I guess you could go back and spray/disinfect those surfaces.
 
ivinsfan said:
... We have sub zero temps so I swap out the empty bags and deep freeze them on my screen porch.
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I thought viruses lived longer in colder temperatures...?
 
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