Spreads so easily......

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audreyh1 said:
Yet another sad “testing is not enough” story. Seems like we’ve been here before - anyone remember Oct 2020? People don’t understand that frequent testing alone is not enough. You still have to isolate immediately for several days and have a second test after say 5 days to know that you are really were Covid-free, and still remain isolated before joining your Covid bubble, and you are still trusting that everybody else has done the same. And the Covid bubble has to be isolated from everyone else. It only takes a few lax people to infect others. It’s extremely chancy.

I think a lot of people complain about false negatives, but it seems that there can be a long delay between being infected and testing positive and people have to take that into account. Even when infected, you are not going test positive for several days at least.

The cruise ships keep trying this testing ahead method, and they keep failing.

Sure attendees submitted a negative PCR test 72 hours ahead of the event. And then what did they do next? Travel.:facepalm:

In this conference, where they thought their testing strategy was golden, 24 people, or ~25% of the attendees, ended up testing positive after the event. Wow - a super spreader event. Made worse I’m sure by dropping normal protocols such as requiring masks at all times and no social distancing.

Washington Post Story about it https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/16/peter-diamandis-summit-coronavirus-outbreak/

From the event organizer.
https://www.diamandis.com/blog/false-sense-security
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MASKS work!! !00% of the production crew wore masks, none tested positive.
Why would they forgo mandatory mask wearing? Geesh.
 
pacergal said:
MASKS work!! !00% of the production crew wore masks, none tested positive.
Why would they forgo mandatory mask wearing? Geesh.
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Because they felt they must be safe with all the testing. :facepalm:

I'm sure the production crew also observed social distancing as much as possible, and obviously (from photos) the attendees did not.
 
audreyh1 said:
Hey, Ronstar, did your wife resume her maskless indoor exercise class?

Exercise classes at gyms have turned out to be super spreader events. In the cases cited, masks were often not worn. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/gyms-maskless-users-shown-high-risk-covid-spread/story?id=76091541
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I saw that story on the news.

Yep she’s back at class 3 times a week. Luckily there are only 6 ladies still going. They are spread out in the room. They wear masks until they get to their mats, then take off the masks to exercise, then masks back on to leave. Not ideal Covid precautions, but could be worse.
 
I've resumed in person yoga classes. I have had both vaccines and am two+ weeks past last shot. The class currently has 4-6 people in a huge room, we are all 10-12 feet apart and everyone has had their vaccine. We wear masks until we get on our mats. I feel reasonably safe, but who knows?
 
Our gym opens back up on April 12th but after a year of doing yoga and Pilates etc at home using the Les Mills online option we are not inclined to be returning any time soon as a big part of our gym usage was their Les Mills Body Balance (Bodyflow) workouts.
 
I have set up my gym at home so I think I will just continue to work out at home and ride my bike. Much cheaper and safer.
 
Our gyms here in Virginia have been open quite a while. Have not tried to venture back.

A buddy of mine swims and says it is very easy to get lanes even though capacity highly restricted.
 
Ronstar said:
I saw that story on the news.

Yep she’s back at class 3 times a week. Luckily there are only 6 ladies still going. They are spread out in the room. They wear masks until they get to their mats, then take off the masks to exercise, then masks back on to leave. Not ideal Covid precautions, but could be worse.
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I meant to also ask if your DW got vaccinated. If not, hopefully you did.
 
Alan said:
Our gym opens back up on April 12th but after a year of doing yoga and Pilates etc at home using the Les Mills online option we are not inclined to be returning any time soon as a big part of our gym usage was their Les Mills Body Balance (Bodyflow) workouts.
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It took me a while, but I’m very happy with my home set up now. I use both Gaia and Apple Fitness+ for yoga.

Unfortunately the local yoga studio I loved and attended twice a week before Covid, has morphed into a hair salon! I just noticed driving by recently.

I’ll have to check out Les Mills Bodyflow.
 
audreyh1 said:
Yet another sad “testing is not enough” story.
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I love case studies. The problem is selection bias (we don't hear about big events that do it right).

I still posit that the problem is mostly the lag between test and the gathering; if they did "at the door" lateral flow antigen tests (which could sell for $1 in quantity), it wouldn't be a super spreader event. That's not to say "zero transmission", but if the problem we're trying to solve is having 25% of attendees acquiring the pathogen, as in this example, that requires a lot of virus in the air. Anyone spewing that much would certainly not be negative on the antigen test.
 
sengsational said:
I love case studies. The problem is selection bias (we don't hear about big events that do it right).

I still posit that the problem is mostly the lag between test and the gathering; if they did "at the door" lateral flow antigen tests (which could sell for $1 in quantity), it wouldn't be a super spreader event. That's not to say "zero transmission", but if the problem we're trying to solve is having 25% of attendees acquiring the pathogen, as in this example, that requires a lot of virus in the air. Anyone spewing that much would certainly not be negative on the antigen test.
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You are saying the daily antigen test would have caught them, even though the daily PCR test did not?

The first positive test occurred two days after the event ended. At which point the attendees were notified to get tested, and a bunch also tested positive.
 
I think we'd all be better off if people would just do the things that are required to quash the pandemic (socially distance, mask, get a vaccine when eligible) instead of trying to figure out a way to evade those requirements.
 
audreyh1 said:
It took me a while, but I’m very happy with my home set up now. I use both Gaia and Apple Fitness+ for yoga.

Unfortunately the local yoga studio I loved and attended twice a week before Covid, has morphed into a hair salon! I just noticed driving by recently.

I’ll have to check out Les Mills Bodyflow.
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We used Gaia for yoga as well then noticed Les Mills online which has just about everything they have ever done back about 5 years. There is a 30 day free trial option then for us it is just under £100/year so will be probably be cheaper for US customers. You can access it in various ways including an app on the Firestick or an app on your tablet or phone that you can broadcast to your TV.

We have our own weights and stretch bands plus hills and moors right outside our house for aerobic exercise so I doubt we will be going back to the gym now that we have a much cheaper and more convenient option that we enjoy.
 
audreyh1 said:
You are saying the daily antigen test would have caught them, even though the daily PCR test did not?
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Yes, absolutely.

While everyone is running around with their hair on fire yelling about "test accuracy" and "gold standard", they forgot to note two very important, I'd say "critical" facts about what we want to know in this situation.

We want to know if a person is 1) shedding high quantities, 2) right now, as the person walks in.

Let's see how a PCR test holds-up. One fact is that people who get over the disease show PCR positive for a long time (a week or two) after they are no longer shedding 'live' virus. So that test would be a false positive for our purposes. Then there's the time lag. 3 days is common, and often it's longer. If you look at the acquisition Ct curve, you see it goes from nothing to it's 'max' value in 2 days. That means a negative three days ago says nothing about viral shedding today.

The lateral flow assay technology is close to 100% accurate at finding people who are shedding large amounts of virus, and it tells you in 15 minutes. To me, in the eyes of public health, it's a crime that this technology has been hampered.
 
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I ended up getting a TV installed on my workout room wall with an Apple TV box. I actually run the yoga sessions simultaneously on my TV and an iPad so I can see the video/instructor from two different locations - works well for those body contortions.
 
Gumby said:
I think we'd all be better off if people would just do the things that are required to quash the pandemic (socially distance, mask, get a vaccine when eligible) instead of trying to figure out a way to evade those requirements.
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Exactly.

My sister was telling me a story from her place of work that happened last week. For background, they have been socially distancing at her work and split up into work bubbles, for example she was moved into an office with 5 others while the other person that does her job worked in a different office. Just before Christmas she caught Covid and when she went back into work discovered that all 6 in her office had also caught it but no one else.

There is a guy she used to really like who works in the warehouse but has been an absolute pain this last year complaining very loudly all the time that the company wasn't doing enough to protect its workers even after the outbreak over Christmas where the bubble system worked and no one outside that office was infected. Last week he asked a coworker if he would give him a lift into work and then while at work his wife called him to say that she had tested positive for Covid. He then objected loudly when he was told to go home immediately and self-isolate as per the current law. (In such a situation the rules are currently that he immediately gets sick pay plus £500 as an incentive to stay away until cleared by Test & Trace but this is still a lot less than he would get while working). This guy came to work knowing that his wife had Covid symptoms and had been tested, rather than wait 24 hours for her results to come back, and he also caused a co-worker to be exposed so he also now has to go home and self-isolate.
 
sengsational said:
The lateral flow assay technology is close to 100% accurate at finding people who are shedding large amounts of virus, and it tells you in 15 minutes. To me, in the eyes of public health, it's a crime that this technology has been hampered.
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I agree, and it is often used in local hotspots where a mobile testing station is moved in and everyone without symptoms is encouraged to be tested, plus they will do door to door testing which happened recently in a neighborhood a few miles from us after a case of the S. African variant was discovered.

It was controversial when it was first used on tens of thousands in Liverpool but the argument for the LF test is exactly what you say, they want to find asymptomatic folks who are shedding lots of virus and this test is fast and cheap even though it will miss folks with low levels of Covid.
 
Well I have to admit I was wrong. On 2/6 after UNC beat Duke in basketball about 1000 UNC students took to the streets in Chapel Hill for a celebration party. No social distancing and not many masks. I and many other residents of Chapel Hill were concerned this was a super spreader event and would lead to a spike in cases. Has not happened. Cases in my county are dropping, the positivity rate in my county is only 1.5% and as of yesterday there were only 15 positive on campus. So I guess a bunch of college age people partying outside for about an hour is not a super spreader event after all.
 
harllee said:
Well I have to admit I was wrong. On 2/6 after UNC beat Duke in basketball about 1000 UNC students took to the streets in Chapel Hill for a celebration party. No social distancing and not many masks. I and many other residents of Chapel Hill were concerned this was a super spreader event and would lead to a spike in cases. Has not happened. Cases in my county are dropping, the positivity rate in my county is only 1.5% and as of yesterday there were only 15 positive on campus. So I guess a bunch of college age people partying outside for about an hour is not a super spreader event after all.
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Sometimes it feels good to be wrong...:flowers:
 
Alan said:
Exactly.

My sister was telling me a story from her place of work that happened last week. For background, they have been socially distancing at her work and split up into work bubbles, for example she was moved into an office with 5 others while the other person that does her job worked in a different office. Just before Christmas she caught Covid and when she went back into work discovered that all 6 in her office had also caught it but no one else.
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Wow - amazing about your sister - that all 6 in the office caught Covid at the same time. But no one else. Hmmmmm.
 
audreyh1 said:
Wow - amazing about your sister - that all 6 in the office caught Covid at the same time. But no one else. Hmmmmm.
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The source turned out to be likely the mother of one of her co-workers who passed it onto him before she took seriously ill and died. The Perspex screens around the desks and distance between the workers obviously did not help during the course of 8 hour days. No A/C, and in the winter the only window in the office was opened at the top only so obviously not enough air changes.
 
Ronstar said:
I saw that story on the news.

Yep she’s back at class 3 times a week. Luckily there are only 6 ladies still going. They are spread out in the room. They wear masks until they get to their mats, then take off the masks to exercise, then masks back on to leave. Not ideal Covid precautions, but could be worse.
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Ah, the "Magic Mats" that repel airborne viruses. I'd like to get one of those :)

My yoga studio had in studio classes in the summer following the same protocol. I thought it was crazy to be in a room all breathing the same air. Luckily, they also had zoom classes for those of us concerned about in person classes. Now everything is on Zoom. Once my vaccine is fully actuated, I would like to get back to in person classes but will still wear a mask even with the protective powers of the yoga mat.
 
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