OP
OP
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Can a 20 amp outlet be used safely on a 15 amp circuit?
Use 3-way outlet in place of 2-way outlet
- Thread starter target2019
- Start date
OP
OP
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
It's not switched. I erred...
I've been looking at commercial outlets as you pointed out. They will work.
Thanks.
calmloki
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I also prefer clamp type connections - had a couple apartment tenants decide that plug in spot heaters were more energy efficient than baseboard. But they were cold, so went with big spot heaters and ran them extended periods. Cord on the heaters would get really warm, and the plug in would get hot due to load and poor connection. Hotter it got the more the spring connection around the spades of the plug would relax. More they relaxed the poorer the connection, until finally there would be sparking at the plug and I got called.
Another time at a city apartment inspection the inspector plugged in his tester and called out lack of ground on a three prong type grounded outlet. This was on a 1940 construction place wired through metal conduit with no ground wire. Inspector said I would pass by either sourcing a two prong type outlet (tough to find these days!) or plugging the round topped ground opening with silicone so it wouldn't accept a three prong plug.
Another time at a city apartment inspection the inspector plugged in his tester and called out lack of ground on a three prong type grounded outlet. This was on a 1940 construction place wired through metal conduit with no ground wire. Inspector said I would pass by either sourcing a two prong type outlet (tough to find these days!) or plugging the round topped ground opening with silicone so it wouldn't accept a three prong plug.
Well it "can" be used safely, but it is not to code. By it's appearance, it will imply that it is a 20amp circuit and someone may overload it. Of course the 15 amp breaker would/should trip, but it's not a good idea. Stay within code.
And I'll add my opinion on the stabs, I will always use a screw connection over a stab when it is available. Much more contact area as already pointed out.
mountainsoft
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
It depends on the outlet. I've seen standard outlets that are "rated" for 20 amps, but they are the standard 3 pin variety where the hot and neutral are both vertical pins. You could certainly use these safely.
However, you shouldn't use a traditional "20 amp" outlet that has a horizontal neutral (or T shaped to accommodate both) and vertical hot pin. Someone may plug in a 20 amp device and trip the 15 amp circuit.
You mentioned you had 12 gauge wire, which is usually used for 20 amp circuits. What size is the breaker for that circuit?
If you actually have a 20 amp circuit you can install the 20 amp outlets which support both 15 amp and 20 amp plugs.
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Well, functionally yes but it's a very bad idea. A 20amp outlet is keyed so a device needing 20 amps can be plugged in --- one of the prongs is different. A 15amp outlet will not accept such a plug. I don't think I've ever seen such a beast but they exist and would overload a 15 amp circuit.
That's exactly the kind of load that has the potential to overstress the small contact area of a push-type connection. Most outlets will never see a full load, so that is our protection against problems with weak contacts.
OP
OP
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I can't say for sure what every wire in the house is, but this leg is 12 AWG, and the breaker is 15 amp. I assume that the original wiring for the house (1975) was 12 AWG, unless I see otherwise.
I think these commercial grade outlets will do what I need. If I can't shepherd hook on the wire I'll use the screw down clamp.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...7202208-92700048704098216&gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds
I never liked using wire nuts to for connectors as I wasn’t sure of my connection. Has anyone used these?
https://smile.amazon.com/Connector-...09452&sprefix=Wire+connectors,aps,213&sr=8-14
Here’s a video I saw on them:
https://smile.amazon.com/Connector-...09452&sprefix=Wire+connectors,aps,213&sr=8-14
Here’s a video I saw on them:
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Quite interesting. When they have ten or twenty years' experience in the field I'll consider them. It is the guys out front who have the arrows in their chests.
Speaking about hot new technologies, maybe 20-30 years ago the hot idea was treated wood basements. I wonder how that ever turned out.
mountainsoft
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Then you have a 15 amp circuit.
Unless you know for sure that every wire in the circuit is at least 12 gauge, I would stick with the 15 amp limit.Those should do nicely. The only issue I have with some commercial outlets is the internal connectors are quite strong. So it can be difficult to insert or remove a plug from the outlet. They should last longer, but usability is important to me also. I installed commercial outlets in our kitchen, only to replace them later with standard outlets. My wife was having too much trouble plugging and unplugging appliances.
mountainsoft
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I'm all for new products, but until they become common place and code approved I'm not taking the chance. I can think of numerous products that were even code approved and turned out to be a bad idea (back stab electrical outlets, threaded female PVC pipe fittings, polybutelene pipe, asbestos, lead paint, etc.). I'm tried and true old school...
As for wire nuts, I usually strip and twist the wires together first, then trim to length. The wire nut is mostly just for insulating the exposed wires, not for the mechanical connection (though I'm sure it helps).
I've been doing electrical work for over 40 years and can only remember one time ever having an issue with a wire nut. I usually toss the cheapo wire nuts that come with light fixtures and whatnot and use my own higher quality wire nuts.
Freedom56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I have used the clear type to wire three additional recessed lighting pods to an existing circuit of recessed lights. They are extremely easy to use and much better than the screw cap connectors. They came with the recessed lighting pods.
RobbieB
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2016
- Messages
- 8,968
If you get the "preferred" outlets (more dough) they have straight rear entry "clamp style" screw connections. The same wire length will go in and clamp securely with no need to wrap around a screw.
ArmchairMillionaire23
Recycles dryer sheets
We've been using WAGO connectors in some of our products for 5-6 years now and we've seen less failures than in wire nuts. A lot of the wire nut failures were from improper wire insertion and wires eventually pulled out. But wire nuts are being made cheaper nowadays. The little wings snap off easier than they used to and the inner springs seem to slip more than before. With the WAGOs you can visibly see the inserted wire in the clear plastic housing and the ones with the orange locking clamps make the wires almost impossible to pull out. I believe they've been pull-tested to some pretty high numbers. We tape around the orange clamp tabs to make sure they do not get lifted by wire loops when pulling other circuits into or through the boxes.
I, too was skeptical at first but I am definitely a believer now. We have a few customers who insist on these type of connectors and do not allow wire nuts on their projects anymore. The WAGOs do cost more than wire nuts, though.
427Vette
Recycles dryer sheets
You will not be able to find a stab lock outlet rated for 12 gauge wire. They were outlawed in the 2005, maybe even the 2002 code I believe. Like previously advised just add on some short wires and put your connections around the screw.
The word “code” has been thrown around a lot in this thread. If you are changing the outlets out and depending on their location you may also need arc fault type outlets or an arc fault type circuit breaker to properly protect the circuit and meet “code”.
The word “code” has been thrown around a lot in this thread. If you are changing the outlets out and depending on their location you may also need arc fault type outlets or an arc fault type circuit breaker to properly protect the circuit and meet “code”.
jazz4cash
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Please explain this. Is it due to the nasty chemicals used for treated wood back then? In our area treated wood floor plates for framing finished basements is common. Alternative is layer of poly foam under untreated wood or metal floor plate.
jazz4cash
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I just replaced a 4 way ( ceiling light with 3 switches) wall switch that failed mechanically after 20 yrs. I’ve never seen the push in style connections before. Mine had the option of hooking the wire around the screw. I bought same brand and style switch on Amazon but the push-in connection was not secure at all so I used the side screw. I think it may have also had the option to clamp onto straight wire using the screw but I didn’t try that. Now I have another wall switch with an intermittent short but haven’t looked into yet.
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
That's good to know. I didn't realize there was that kind of field experience Maybe I'll try some, though my current wire nut stock is a hundred or more, three or four sizes.
I don't know the details and didn't then. My point was simply that I am not an early adopter on things like a new way to build a basement. Maybe the wood basement experiments turned out fine. I haven't tracked it.
(The builder of our new lake home is traditional enough for me: poured concrete with foam insulating sheets as forms both sides and the insulation left in place. I'm not quite sure how he'll attach studs or furring strips in the inside but I'll be interested to find out.)
ncbill
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I had the problem of "lost" outlet grounds in a relative's house I sold just last year.
Built in the 1930s, a previous owner before my relative did electrical upgrades which included pulling new Romex to add grounded outlets to the kitchen & bathrooms...but I found many of those were showing an open ground.
Hired an electrician who said the ground bonds at the panel were done with a thin steel ring clamped around the bare copper grounds...he theorized the same was done in the junction boxes but came loose over the decades.
Since hunting for those junction boxes would have required me to rip open finished walls I instead had him replace the upstream outlet on those circuits with a GFCI labeled "no equipment ground" also adding "GFCI protected, no equipment ground" labels to the downstream outlets on the same circuit.
Built in the 1930s, a previous owner before my relative did electrical upgrades which included pulling new Romex to add grounded outlets to the kitchen & bathrooms...but I found many of those were showing an open ground.
Hired an electrician who said the ground bonds at the panel were done with a thin steel ring clamped around the bare copper grounds...he theorized the same was done in the junction boxes but came loose over the decades.
Since hunting for those junction boxes would have required me to rip open finished walls I instead had him replace the upstream outlet on those circuits with a GFCI labeled "no equipment ground" also adding "GFCI protected, no equipment ground" labels to the downstream outlets on the same circuit.
PoorOldCountryBoy
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2017
- Messages
- 235
ERD50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I have to agree with this. Without a real understanding of how house wiring is supposed to work, and the dangers involved (many not immediately apparent), it is really best to get a professional in there.
A pro may see other things seemingly unrelated to inexperienced eyes, that could be a safety issue at some point. Especially in a home with old enough wiring to have a an un-grounded (two-prong) outlet. The last time I saw a two-prong outlet was when my son was renting one floor of an old Chicago two-flat, built in the 20's or 30's. Most of the electrical had been updated, but one bedroom still had some two prong outlets. Probably the originals.
-ERD50
Then you have a 15 amp circuit.
Exactly. My father was an electrician and he and I did a lot of side wiring jobs on weekends (his full time job was with the electric utility). Many's the time he'd use 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp circuit simply because that's what was in the trunk of the car. Perfectly within code, but not to be misinterpreted as justification to think it was okay to put a 20 amp load on that circuit.
BasketCase24
Dryer sheet aficionado
On a kind of related note, my home insurance company just got me a free “Ting” electric monitoring device. It looks for arc’ing and other anomalies in your home wiring, and uses wi-fi to report problems to you, and, if necessary, send an electrician to trouble-shoot and repair. I’m hoping it’s mine to keep and gets me a discount. Anyone else hear of or have this?
Similar threads
