Any Retirees in New Hampshire or New England Area?

[KingOfTheCheapos]

I'm exploring the idea of spending May to Nov in New Hampshire and use it as my tax-basis (no sales tax, no taxes on pensions, SS).

Are there any retirees out there in NH who can comment on how its like to live there? In particular I'm concerned whether it's possible to just "shut down" the home during the winter (shut off water at mains, don't heat home etc.) in October.

I'm also curious about the weather and in particular humidity from May to November.

I'd also like some suggestions on towns to live? I understand NH gets taxes mainly from property tax so great places like Hanover are too expensive. I'm looking at a property under $400K.

 

[CaptTom]

I live across the border in Southern Maine.

People do winterize "camps" in ME and NH. A "camp" is what the rest of the country would call a summer cottage or lake house. I've done it many times. I've also missed a pipe here and there, and had a lot of repair work come spring.

Winter can be rough on a house in other ways, too. Heavy snow can and regularly does collapse roofs. Snow drifting up against the walls and in roof valleys can go through thaw and re-freeze cycles, working its way into the framing. Rodents can find a way in and cause a lot of damage. Sump pumps can fail and cause flooding. In some places, theft can be a problem.

That said, it can be and is done. It's probably easier with a condo.

We get a few very hot and humid days - sometimes even a week or two - in summer. We even had three or four this spring already. Not to get into a climate debate, but it is getting worse over time. Air conditioning is a requirement for most people. Inland (Manchester, Concord) is generally as much as 10 degrees F hotter than the coast (Portsmouth, Hampton.) Up in the mountains may also be cooler.

As for towns to live in, that's a personal choice. I will say that the cost of housing is pretty high everywhere except way out in the boonies. And even there, property taxes can often make up for the other tax savings you mention. And of course, it's totally a seller's market in real estate right now. The stories I've heard from realtors I know are just insane. I would not want to be buying now.

 

[pb4uski]

DS lives in NH and we are not far from NH in Vermont... in fact, the nearest HD, Lowe's, Walmart, etc are in NH.

My mom has a three-season home that we do not heat in the winter. I disconnect the water, blow out all the pipes with a shop vac and fill the toilets and traps with RV antifreeze and turn off the power.

We keep our house going year-round. In the winter we set the thermostats at 55F and turn off the water and open the faucets to relieve the pressure. For the six months that we are gone, between propane for heat, plowing the driveway so the propane truck can deliver and electricity is ~$1,500-$2,000 a year, but it would probably cost me something to winterize the place and $200 or so just to keep the electricity on so I would not save all of that $1,500-$2,000 a year.

I'm not keen on leaving the building unheated and keeping it at 55F gives us the ability to use it on short notice if for some reason we need to go home for family emergencies or a quick ski trip. While we haven't done either of those we have returned for a week or so for the Christmas holidays.

 

[zinger1457]

I'm exploring the idea of spending May to Nov in New Hampshire and use it as my tax-basis (no sales tax, no taxes on pensions, SS).

While you may save on some taxes it may be more than offset by higher property taxes. I grew up in MA and looked into houses in southern NH not to long ago and property taxes on an equivalent priced house compared to where I now live were over 3X what I'm currently paying.

 

[Gumby]

This is not a commentary on New Hampshire, as I have only been there to climb in the White Mountains and driving through to get to Maine. It's more of a general life observation. --- I wouldn't let the tax tail wag the life choice dog. Live where you will be happiest. You will soon forget how low the taxes are if you live in an unpleasant or inconvenient area.

 

[nhcycling]

There are a lot of great places to live in NH - Hanover that you mentioned, the seacoast area - Portsmouth, the mountains - North Conway, the lakes region … but property under $400k will be hard to find anywhere in these places. It’s not hot and humid like Florida in the summer.

Property taxes are what they are, I guess I’m just used to them having had a summer place for years and eventually moving to southern NH 12 years ago. There’s not much difference between property taxes in a close in suburban Boston town and southern NH town.

NH, I found you don’t get services in some towns - no town water, need a well. No town trash, go to the dump. Need a generator, yes you lose electricity during storms. Need a snowblower, even in November.

It’s peaceful in the rural area where I am, I love it! We’re still close enough to Boston, the White Mountains and the Maine Seacoast.

 

[pb4uski]

There are a lot of great places to live in NH - Hanover that you mentioned, the seacoast area - Portsmouth, the mountains - North Conway, the lakes region … but property under $400k will be hard to find anywhere in these places. ...

+1 DS lives in Franconia and works in Lincoln and I have looked for a small house or duplex for him and everything seemed very pricey.... even up to an hour away.

 

[finnski1]

I live in NH (Southwester NH) year round. We do have neighbors from Texas who leave the house from October all the way thru June each year. They shut off the water and leave the heat at 55 deg.
We live in a fairly forested area and at over 1300 feet elevation so the heat and humidity aren't too bad at all. I did finally install a mini split A/C unit last year and have turned it on only two days so far this year. Been here for 33 years now and typically we didn't need the A/C but I hate humidity and am even less tolerant the older (62 now) I get.
The real estate taxes in NH vary wildly by town. For the very reasons you mentioned (no income or sales tax) the revenues still have to be raised somehow. Therefore whenever someone mentions "we have no income tax or sales tax", someone else is quick to reply "yeah but your real estate taxes are crazy."
I am paying about 1.5% on my property, maybe less right now because the prices have gone up a lot and at the moment. I'm sure my value is up from the assessed value. I happen to live in one of the lower tax towns. There are many towns where the rate approaches and even exceeds 3 to 3.5%.
While we were both working full time the overall burden was very low. Once retired it creeps up a little. There are always the occasional story of the little old lady who can't pay her RE taxes because she is living on ss alone and the family homes taxes are more than half her ss check etc. but if you have the means it should not be a problem.

So no taxes on SS or pensions either. The only tax is 5% on dividends above $1200/individual or $2400/couple.
Overall NH is consistently ranked as one of the more tax friendly states though there are several that rank higher. Many of those however are in higher heat zones that I couldn't handle.
I guess it's all relative since I grew up in Massachusetts, not so affectionately know as Taxachusetts, makes NH seem pretty good.

On top of all that NH is a beautiful state with many outdoor natural features etc. We love it here. OF course we also like snow

 

[KingOfTheCheapos]

This is not a commentary on New Hampshire, as I have only been there to climb in the White Mountains and driving through to get to Maine. It's more of a general life observation. --- I wouldn't let the tax tail wag the life choice dog. Live where you will be happiest. You will soon forget how low the taxes are if you live in an unpleasant or inconvenient area.

But it's not an insignificant difference. Here are my calculations.

On a $100K retirement draw in CA I would pay: $4K in property taxes, $3K in state taxes and $7K in sales tax (assuming I spend everything after paying fed tax).

In NH I estimate property tax will be $5-$6K but the other two go away so I'm saving $8-9K a year which is a trip to Europe. Am I missing something?

I didn't just choose NH randomly. I spent last week scouting the South (FA, GA, AL, LA) and it was just too hot humid for me.

 

[KingOfTheCheapos]

There are a lot of great places to live in NH - Hanover that you mentioned, the seacoast area - Portsmouth, the mountains - North Conway, the lakes region … but property under $400k will be hard to find anywhere in these places.

So I'm looking for a simple lake house, retreat or as I've learnt today what you call a "Camp" (learn something new every day!). Will they really cost that much. So long as I'm 30-60 minutes drive from a small town with a decent grocery store I'm fine.

Also so I"m not retiring until 2025.

 

[zinger1457]

In NH I estimate property tax will be $5-$6K but the other two go away so I'm saving $8-9K a year which is a trip to Europe. Am I missing something?

As mentioned above it will vary by city but the places that I looked at in southern NH the property taxes on a $400K house were closer to $10K, there can be a big difference between what someone is currently paying on a house and what a new buyer would pay. Didn't look at lakeside homes, would think they sell at a high premium.

 

[finnski1]

As mentioned above it will vary by city but the places that I looked at in southern NH the property taxes on a $400K house were closer to $10K, there can be a big difference between what someone is currently paying on a house and what a new buyer would pay. Didn't look at lakeside homes, would think they sell at a high premium.

Lake side here in SW NH prices are definitely higher. Property taxes go up proportionately.

 

[nhcycling]

So I'm looking for a simple lake house, retreat or as I've learnt today what you call a "Camp" (learn something new every day!). Will they really cost that much. So long as I'm 30-60 minutes drive from a small town with a decent grocery store I'm fine.

Also so I"m not retiring until 2025.

Search general real estate sites for lake side property, see what you come up with. My summer place is on a smallish lake and you can’t buy a “camp” for less than 500-600k now nevermind a year round house. I’m obviously not familiar with NH real estate just the lakes region which is popular.

 

[bolt]

I cannot understand people that cannot find acceptable RE values.
Everythings over 3/400/500K!
One look online shows otherwise.

https://www.nhlakesrealty.com/affordable-lakefront-real-estate-in-new-hampshire/

Thats one link, i'm sure theres others.
I'm sure theres forclosures & distressed R.E. etc.
Invest your human capital first.(DIY)
Or pay an agent for what only you, know works for you.

I had a pal, right over on any boat, ..alone.
He secured a .gov job here, he then built a number of 1bd/1bth cottages as a dominos row on Lake Winnipesaukee's shoreline in the 70/80s to rent out seasonally.
It can be done, particularly a 3 season units.

The link up above must be through other intermideaties, adding costs, complexities & completely unessary to your search, but might be helpful.
Get in a auto, go look.
Rent for 6-12 mo.here or there to see if you like the area.
Plan, locate, & wait for said R.E.

Good luck & Best wishes....

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Washington State has similar advantages but the weather is better. It is also a seller's market now as well.

I agree about the South. If I had a business, I would high-tail it to Texas--but I don't.

 

[kjpliny]

We looked at a few houses a few years ago in NH. It was obscene then...with property taxes well over $20k per year for the homes with the amenities we were looking for. That is not much more than we're paying now in NY, but it must be absolutely obscene now.

No sales tax in NH, but if you dine out or stay at hotels you're paying around 9% tax. The sea coast was beautiful, the lakes region was way too crowded and touristy, and mountains were nice. We did over 1k miles driving around for a week. Beautiful state, but those property taxes are killer on a nice home with a view and lots of land, especially for retirees.

We drove past this one in Bedford, but it was quite a bit out of our price range.

Taxes are probably north of $30k now.

 

[Graysand]

It's not necessarily idyllic by the lake in lovely NH ! What many realtors call camps here (White Mountains) are NOT suitable for year round living. A lot are even just converted cabins with 2x4 external wall framing. Think about insulation, heating costs, drafts, etc. Consider internet access and cell service. The local grocery store prices are outrageous, and selection is limited. It's a 45m drive to a "real" store, or to a Home Depot or a Walmart. Similarly, even a night out at a restaurant or a movie can be an hour long drive. And you get to drive your own garbage to the dump! Before considering Lakes Region in NH, ask yourself if you can really live that lifestyle. (I thought I could, but the constant long distance driving is truly a drag...) At least it's beautiful in the summer, and there are some hardy folks who do love winter sports.

 

[KM]

I was born, raised, worked and retired in NH. Seacoast region. It’s pretty easy to winterize and leave for the winter. We’ve done so for the past 8 years. Shut off water, some anti-freeze in your traps, and keep the heat 50 or so. But yeah, you’ll be paying a heating bill even when you’re not there…. You also have to think about your roof in a bad winter. DH had to fly home one winter to shovel the roof and another one winter we hired someone to shovel the roof. Depends on how much snow you get and roof slope. Just something to think of…but other than that it’s easy to do and lots of people do it.

Lots of small lakes throughout NH. You could probably find something in your price range, but real estate prices here have gone stupid in the past year, so I don’t envy anyone buying right now. Apparently “work from home” has pushed a lot of MA and NY people to NH (at least that’s what they’re saying..)

As far as taxes go, I’ve never understood why some think our property taxes are so bad. I have 2000 sq ft, .25 acre and pay around $6k. Same as DD in VA (similar houses). Relatives in MD had about 3000 sq ft and we’re paying a lot more in property tax. Because I live on the border of ME, I’ve had numerous friends “buy in ME” for cheaper property taxes. But they soon learned that once they paid their income tax, tax on their car purchases etc….they weren’t ahead. None of us like taxes and there are definitely some states I’d never move to….but NH tax burden is just not that bad (imho).

 

[KM]

Meant to add…..we only use our air conditioning 2-4 weeks in the summer. The humidity here is NOTHING compared to VA or other places more south. Again it’ll depend on where in NH you are, but summers and falls are wonderful here. Winters….not so much. Springs are a mixed bag. And be prepaid for a fifth season, also known as “mud season”, nicely tucked between winter and spring

 

[zinger1457]

As far as taxes go, I’ve never understood why some think our property taxes are so bad. I have 2000 sq ft, .25 acre and pay around $6k. Same as DD in VA (similar houses). Relatives in MD had about 3000 sq ft and we’re paying a lot more in property tax. Because I live on the border of ME, I’ve had numerous friends “buy in ME” for cheaper property taxes. But they soon learned that once they paid their income tax, tax on their car purchases etc….they weren’t ahead. None of us like taxes and there are definitely some states I’d never move to….but NH tax burden is just not that bad (imho).

The property tax rates in the areas of southern NH that I looked at ranged from 2.2- 2.4%, where I live its .8%. I agree, they will get your money one way or another.

 

[friar1610]

Not trying to influence you for or against NH. Just want to point out that NH taxes interest and dividend income at 5% although there is an exemption of some amount - don’t recall how much. So, if a significant amount of your income comes from interest and/or dividends, you might want to plug that into your computations.

 

[Gumby]

But it's not an insignificant difference. Here are my calculations.

On a $100K retirement draw in CA I would pay: $4K in property taxes, $3K in state taxes and $7K in sales tax (assuming I spend everything after paying fed tax).

In NH I estimate property tax will be $5-$6K but the other two go away so I'm saving $8-9K a year which is a trip to Europe. Am I missing something?

I didn't just choose NH randomly. I spent last week scouting the South (FA, GA, AL, LA) and it was just too hot humid for me.

New Hampshire may be perfect for you, for a variety of reasons. I certainly have always enjoyed it there, and I most certainly do not intend to dissuade you from choosing it.

But this raises a question for those making retirement plans - how should you account for the state tax burden? According to this site https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494, Connecticut, where I live, has the 5th highest tax burden in the country. Of the 4 states ahead of us, I would only consider moving to Maine, which is just barely ahead of us. My retirement plan always assumed that we would stay in Connecticut (as we have). I was unwilling to consider a plan that required us to move to a lower cost state. Did it require us to work a little longer? Probably. But I would rather choose where to live in retirement because that is where I want to live, not because that is where I have to live to make the numbers work.

 

[doneat54]

I'll weigh in here. MA resident since '88, and bought a lakefront NH 2nd home in '19. Retired in Jan '17, DW will retire next May. Plan is to sell MA home next spring and live at the lake full time.


NH is WAY less expensive to live than MA. Posts above about tax rates are valid, but keep in mind that RE tax rates vary greatly, and rates in towns on the MA border are high. At our place in south central NH, tax rates, and utilities are WAY less than MA, even with lake front property. As for winterizing, it can be done. Lots of great tech, NEST thermostats, temp monitors with cell phone alerts, cameras, etc.

 

[onabreak]

We have a second home in Mount Washington Valley. Property taxes vary a lot by town, but many towns in the valley have pretty low tax rates because they have a lot of second homes that don’t use as many town services like schools. Don’t assume all towns the same.

We use in winter a lot, but some neighbors use in summer months and rent to skiers in winter (one seasonal renter) If you are ok with renting, this may be option for you as well depending on location.

 

[finnski1]

The property tax rates in the areas of southern NH that I looked at ranged from 2.2- 2.4%, where I live its .8%. I agree, they will get your money one way or another.

Those rates look about right to me. My town is pretty good being under 1.8%.

I think the real benefit tax wise for NH is during your working years, not the retirement years.
We have lived here for 33 years now and grew up in MA.
As an example. Couple working, doing pretty good and has an income of $200k/year.


MA: income tax(5%) 10,000, spend 20k on things that are sales taxable(6.25%) = 1250 and a 400k home at .8% =3200
total tax burden=$14700
NH income tax =0, sales tax =0, property tax at 2.3%=$9200
advantage nh by $5500/yr
Now retired at 60, manage your income to $50k/yr and buying taxable items drops to $5000
MA: 50kx.05 +5k x.0625 +3200 re taxes=6012.5
NH: 50k x 0 +5k x0 +9200 =$9200
Advantage MA by $3188/yr

So if you are going purely by the numbers you would actually be better off to live and work in NH and retire to MA than the other way around as people seem to think they should do to escape the "Taxachusetts" dilemma.
I also realize this is but one of infinite scenarios and the numbers could possibly work out very differently depending on which town one lives in either state or the household income etc.
Just wanted to pint this out and as someone said earlier "don't let the tax tail wag the dog" or something like that.
We love where we live and have no plans to leave for any potential total tax savings which would be minimal in the grand scheme of our finances and overall happiness.