Big Drop in Life Expectancy

[W2R]

Heh, heh, at 74, I'm hoping for more than 75. I've asked the "Maker" for at least another 10, but I'll take what I get. YMMV

I'm 73, and life has never been sweeter than it is now. I cherish each day! I hope that I can make it into my 90's at least. Well over 100 would be great if I had my choice about it. Obviously I don't but anyway I'm sure not going to wish I was dead. I am having more fun now than I ever could possibly imagine when I was younger.

Here it is 5:11 in the morning and I still haven't gone to bed, because I'm having too much fun. Guess I should end this post and get at least a little sleep tonight though, and continue all the fun tomorrow.

g'night all

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I just hope that whenever it is my time that DWD is legal where I am living. 75 is fine in my books YMMV. But as we all know, one NEVER knows.

 

[athena53]

For RMD purposes, the longevity table was revised last year and (I believe) will be in effect starting 2022.

The tables are based on the mortality of everyone who were born in a certain year - including those who died as children plus those recently died with Covid. So, if you have made it to 60 and are in decent health, chances are that you will live many years beyond the "drop dead" date in the table.

At first I wondered why they'd make such an obvious mistake on developing a table to estimate the remaining lifespan of people who have survived to that particular withdrawal age...it would be easy enough to do.

Then I realized that the way they did it means you have to make bigger RMDs.

 

[audreyh1]

This is what happened to my FIL, except he was at home when it happened. 6 weeks later he was dead at age 85, but he was as fit as a fiddle up to the point of the fall.

Wel I guess in the grand scheme of things it’s better to go that way at 85 - very fit until a few weeks before dying. Lingering on with debilitating cancer and treatments would be far worse.

 

[2177V]

Not just your life, your brain health as you age.

That’s a good habit to adopt because there is a strong link between P. gingivalis the bacteria responsible for periodontal (gum) disease and Alzheimer’s. P. gingivalis has been found in the brain!

One study for example - https://www.perio.org/consumer/alzheimers-and-periodontal-disease

Audreyh1.......Great post since both my Mom and Dad had Alzheimer's before they passed away. If there is anything that I can do to reduce my own risk, I intend to do it! Having a good retirement, good investments and/or good family can all be for naught by this dreaded disease which affects life expectancy.

 

[Time2]

I have breakfast twice a week with several mature fellows. One is mature to the age of 96 years old. He drives to breakfast everyday (just got his license renewed) but the rest of table all agree, he should not be driving. Everyday when he leaves after breakfast, there is a 6" step off the sidewalk to the driveway, he has extreme difficulty making that step. It is to the point where either a waitress or one of us helps him down to the driveway. Doing dishes is more than he can handle, so he eats out every meal. He's lucky he can afford it. He was getting meals on wheels, but then they found out he could drive, so they stopped that. He still gets some joy from life, but it is talking about his grandkids and what they do. He did get excited recently when he saw an article in Smithsonian about a rocket device he built a part for back in the 60s. His mind is still good, but his body is failing him. He recently bought an easy chair that raises to help him get up.

 

[Time2]

Audreyh1.......Great post since both my Mom and Dad had Alzheimer's before they passed away. If there is anything that I can do to reduce my own risk, I intend to do it! Having a good retirement, good investments and/or good family can all be for naught by this dreaded disease which affects life expectancy.

Saw some info about Hyperbaric chambers and treatment of mental decline.
Not just Alzheimers.

https://www.amenclinics.com/services/hyperbaric-oxygen/

 

[Koolau]

Audreyh1.......Great post since both my Mom and Dad had Alzheimer's before they passed away. If there is anything that I can do to reduce my own risk, I intend to do it! Having a good retirement, good investments and/or good family can all be for naught by this dreaded disease which affects life expectancy.

We are "watching" two old friends as they go through this process. It's difficult to see folks who were so vital becoming totally dependent. Fortunately, they have not suffered too much though their spouses have. I saw this in my parents as well. It was in many ways tougher on me than on them. I take at least some comfort in that. YMMV

 

[2177V]

I have breakfast twice a week with several mature fellows. One is mature to the age of 96 years old. He drives to breakfast everyday (just got his license renewed) but the rest of table all agree, he should not be driving. Everyday when he leaves after breakfast, there is a 6" step off the sidewalk to the driveway, he has extreme difficulty making that step. It is to the point where either a waitress or one of us helps him down to the driveway. Doing dishes is more than he can handle, so he eats out every meal. He's lucky he can afford it. He was getting meals on wheels, but then they found out he could drive, so they stopped that. He still gets some joy from life, but it is talking about his grandkids and what they do. He did get excited recently when he saw an article in Smithsonian about a rocket device he built a part for back in the 60s. His mind is still good, but his body is failing him. He recently bought an easy chair that raises to help him get up.

I hope he is using a cane. I had two relatives who passed away because they fell and their heads hit pavement or hard furniture. Falling is like a heart attack.

If you survive the first heart attack, people make life style changes. If you survive the first serious fall, people start using a cane.

The tricky part is surviving your first heart attack and surviving your first serious fall. Some people can be stubborn and they would refuse to use a cane until it is too late.

 

[SecondCor521]

For RMD purposes, the longevity table was revised last year and (I believe) will be in effect starting 2022.

Essentially correct.

The tables are based on the mortality of everyone who were born in a certain year - including those who died as children plus those recently died with Covid. So, if you have made it to 60 and are in decent health, chances are that you will live many years beyond the "drop dead" date in the table.

Quite wrong.

In the Federal Register, where the new RMD tables were officially published, some quick googling and text search indicates how the mortality was calculated:

"Section 1.401(a)(9)-9, as it appears in 26 CFR part 1 (revised as of April 1, 2020), provides life expectancy and distribution period tables that are used to apply the rules of § 1.401(a)(9)-5 and to make the calculations in § 1.401(a)(9)-6, Q&A-14. That regulation, referred to in this preamble as formerly applicable § 1.401(a)(9)-9, was issued in 2002 (67 FR 18988), and the tables in formerly applicable Start Printed Page 72474§ 1.401(a)(9)-9 were developed using mortality rates for 2003. Those mortality rates were derived by applying mortality improvement through 2003 to the mortality rates from the Annuity 2000 Basic Table (which was the most recent individual annuity mortality table available in 2002).[7] The rates of mortality improvement used for this purpose were the ones that were used in developing the Annuity 2000 Basic Table. The resulting separate mortality rates for males and females were blended using a fixed 50 percent male/50 percent female blend."

(Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...bles-used-for-purposes-of-determining-minimum)

Further, the Annuity 2000 Basic Table is clearly conditional mortality - so in the example cited, it does *not* include children who died but only includes the experience of those who actually attained the age of 60. See for example:

"The life expectancy at each male age is show to its right. For example, the life expectancy of a male age 79 is 10.8 years. This means that there is a 50% chance that a 79 year-old male will live at least another 10.8 years."

(Source: https://www.pgcalc.com/pdf/singlelife.pdf)

Yes, there were some tweaks as indicated above in the Federal Register excerpt, but no, the divisors in the new table are not unnecessarily aggressive. And I already know by looking that the divisors in the new table are very similar but in fact less aggressive than the current RMD table. At least for the most commonly used one for regular RMDs from a traditional IRA starting at age 72 with which we're all familiar.

 

[audreyh1]

Audreyh1.......Great post since both my Mom and Dad had Alzheimer's before they passed away. If there is anything that I can do to reduce my own risk, I intend to do it! Having a good retirement, good investments and/or good family can all be for naught by this dreaded disease which affects life expectancy.

It’s not just life expectancy either, is it.

For many of us the idea of attaining a great age, yet living many years debilitated- either physically or mentally - is horrifying! So I pretty much focus on healthy aging.

 

[SecondCor521]

It’s not just life expectancy either, is it.

For many of us the idea of attaining a great age, yet living many years debilitated- either physically or mentally - is horrifying! So I pretty much focus on healthy aging.

Right - it's "health expectancy". There's a very good book on this idea called "Younger Next Year" which focuses on men for whatever reason. An acquaintance pointed out that there is a similar version for women approximately titled, unsurprisingly, "Younger Next Year For Women".

(The book might use a different term but the idea is clearly in there.)

 

[audreyh1]

I focus on avoiding chronic diseases (metabolic disease - mostly a result of diet which can cause hyperinsulinemia), and focus on brain health. Dementia is also linked to hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia (metabolic disease). In addition to avoiding metabolic disease, the brain needs exercise and adequate sleep to stay healthy.

 

[brett]

When we retired early one of our goals was to do frequent, independent land travels. We each had a long bucket list.

That meant we had to get in shape for some of those long flights-SE Asia, Africa, etc. We both lost weight and got down to where we should be. We started to exercise-lots of hiking. And we started eating better. These made a measurable difference on our health and on our outlook.

Travel helped us change our eating habits. Months of fresh fruit/veg, little fried food, far less red meat/more seafood, and absolutely no fast food or frozen convenience food changed our eating habits for the better when we returned.

We felt so much better. More energy,etc. Our food tastes better now. We can spot any convenience food served in a restaurant. It leaves a chemical taste in our mouth.

I believe this has made a significant different to our longer term health and to our feeling of well being.

 

[Time2]

I hope he is using a cane. I had two relatives who passed away because they fell and their heads hit pavement or hard furniture. Falling is like a heart attack.

If you survive the first heart attack, people make life style changes. If you survive the first serious fall, people start using a cane.

The tricky part is surviving your first heart attack and surviving your first serious fall. Some people can be stubborn and they would refuse to use a cane until it is too late.

He does use a cane.

 

[Estuaryman]

Just wait for the next Covid Variant to start spreading, recalculations will be needed....

 

[Koolau]

I hope he is using a cane. I had two relatives who passed away because they fell and their heads hit pavement or hard furniture. Falling is like a heart attack.

If you survive the first heart attack, people make life style changes. If you survive the first serious fall, people start using a cane.

The tricky part is surviving your first heart attack and surviving your first serious fall. Some people can be stubborn and they would refuse to use a cane until it is too late.

Agreed. Had a friend who was 74. Played tennis every day. Did all his own maintenance. Took care of his wife. He had a freak fall (trip hazard.) Got a brain bleed and was gone in 2 months. Not even a chance for a cane. YMMV

 

[2177V]

Agreed. Had a friend who was 74. Played tennis every day. Did all his own maintenance. Took care of his wife. He had a freak fall (trip hazard.) Got a brain bleed and was gone in 2 months. Not even a chance for a cane. YMMV

In my mom’s case, her doctor prescribed medication to minimize her risk for a heart attack. The medication is a type of blood thinner. When my Mom had a fall, she had brain bleed like your friend. The irony is her blood thinning medication worsen her condition past a possible recovery.

A blood thinner is a anti coagulant. However when you have a brain bleed you want your blood to coagulant. Her medication that was intended to help her live longer ended up taking her life. When I get older, I will definitely listen to my doctor about the pros and cons of any future medication. I am leaning toward not taking any medication to reduce my potential for a heart attack. My wife is taking low dose Bayer aspirin 81 mg which is a very mild anti coagulant but not the prescription strength anti coagulant which I intend to avoid.

 

[Dd852]

In my mom’s case, her doctor prescribed medication to minimize her risk for a heart attack. The medication is a type of blood thinner. When my Mom had a fall, she had brain bleed like your friend. The irony is her blood thinning medication worsen her condition past a possible recovery.

This is exactly what happened to my mother - on blood thinners, a fall, and then the brain bleeds were fatal. It is a terrible choice to be confronted with - heart attack or brain bleed. I think in her case she was probably over medicated at the end with all sorts of drugs that were not well coordinated.

 

[2177V]

This is exactly what happened to my mother - on blood thinners, a fall, and then the brain bleeds were fatal. It is a terrible choice to be confronted with - heart attack or brain bleed. I think in her case she was probably over medicated at the end with all sorts of drugs that were not well coordinated.

My Mom was 88 when she fell. The drug she was taking was Warfarfin. When the emergency room doctor looked at her medical records and found out my Mom is on Warfarin, he informed the family to expect the worst.

Like you stated, it is either death by heart attack or brain bleed. I think the surviving family decided to lobby for low dose aspirin in the event our doctor wants to us to take a blood thinner. Warfarin is a dirty word in our family.

 

[audreyh1]

It seems to me that once you turn 80, it might be time to ease off medications for chronic disease. I guess if you’ve had open heart surgery or stents maybe you still need some blood thinner, but medications in general for primary prevention at that age? Maybe not.

Some medications do cause problems in very elderly - like developing low blood pressure leading to balance problems, etc., so be careful about BP medications as you age. Some statins can lead to symptoms of dementia in elderly.

 

[2177V]

It seems to me that once you turn 80, it might be time to ease off medications for chronic disease. I guess if you’ve had open heart surgery or stents maybe you still need some blood thinner, but medications in general for primary prevention at that age? Maybe not.

Some medications do cause problems in very elderly - like developing low blood pressure leading to balance problems, etc., so be careful about BP medications as you age. Some statins can lead to symptoms of dementia in elderly.

I agree. However, my Mom is the type of person who simply "trusted" her doctor.

The family decided to get independent consultation and/or internet research to verify our doctor's drug recommendations and get a better idea of the pros and cons and consider all of the alternative drugs.

My Mom was in bed at night and she needed to go to the bathroom. She fell and hit her head on some wooden furniture in complete darkness. In hindsight, my Mom should have used a low level night light so she does not have to walk around in complete darkness in order to save a few pennies by turning off all of the lights.

 

[W2R]

My Mom was in bed at night and she needed to go to the bathroom. She fell and hit her head on some wooden furniture in complete darkness. In hindsight, my Mom should have used a low level night light so she does not have to walk around in complete darkness in order to save a few pennies by turning off all of the lights.

I think this incident is a good lesson for all of us who are over 60-65 or so, even those who are not medicated. Motion activate nightlights are cheap and can prevent a lot of falls! You can get ones that plug in, and/or you can also get battery operated ones that work even during a power outage.

I had a lot of bad falls before my cataract surgery and knee surgery (due to wobbly walking and terrible vision) and tried my best to prevent further falling. It hasn't been as much of a problem since my surgeries, but still I am glad I have those nightlights.

 

[2177V]

Ever since my mom passing due to her falling at night, I use nightlight since I sleep easily as long as the nightlight is positioned which my eyes are in a shaded area. I have an Alexa smart home device so I will soon be buying an Alexa command light so I can simply say “Alexa turn on the light”. Better than the silly clap on device. Motion sensor is also an option but since I am converting my entire home into a smart home with thermostat control and intruder alerts, I decided on using smart home device technology.

 

[Chuckanut]

In hindsight, my Mom should have used a low level night light so she does not have to walk around in complete darkness in order to save a few pennies by turning off all of the lights.

+1

I have several motion activated night lights plus one hall light I leave on all the time. Once a visitor criticized me for wasting electricity and adding to the Earth's carbon issues. I told him that one call to the EMTs for a preventable fall plus the trip to the ER, plus the followup, would probably used about 100 times the energy that these lights consume over the rest of my life.