Phish concerts leave trail of infections

[Mr._Graybeard]

According to the Boston Globe, MGM Grand accepted a negative test result when allowing concertgoers to attend. But the band performed repeatedly over several days, and the resort required only one test. In the jam band tradition, many people attended more than one show. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/11/17/metro/covid-positive-vegas-phish-concerts-leave-long-covid-tail-fans-say/

We attended a concert at a smaller venue last week in Dane County, Wis., where covid containment rules remain in force. A vaccination card was required upon entry and masks were also required.

I'm tired of missing out on cultural enrichments and plan to attend more concerts this season -- but only with full precautions in place. People clearly have grown complacent in my area, and infections are rebounding.

 

[audreyh1]

I think it’s pretty clear now in situations like these people need to (antigen) test every day shortly before the event. Testing a couple days ahead doesn’t cut it.

And Omicron will only make it worse.

 

[disneysteve]

I think it’s pretty clear now in situations like these people need to (antigen) test every day shortly before the event. Testing a couple days ahead doesn’t cut it.

And Omicron will only make it worse.

Exactly. Christmas is going to be a mess as everyone visits family and friends despite all of the warnings not to do so.



If you insist on seeing people, please, please, please do a rapid test immediately before you leave. Not the day before. Not even that morning if you aren't going until the evening. Test yourself as close as possible to when the interaction will occur. And make sure everybody who will attend the gathering is doing the same thing.

 

[RobbieB]

Y&T sold out our 550 seat small venue. Always wanted to see them, but glad I'm not.

Three hours in a sold out house sounds like a good way to get sick.

 

[audreyh1]

From Twitter:

A demo of how fast you can turn positive:

Yesterday morning, yesterday lunchtime, yesterday evening, this morning.

Do LFTs *just* before meeting up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471392764004913152

If you look carefully you can see a very faint line for yesterday evening - that is already a positive result.

 

[VanWinkle]

I'm going to a large venue in 3 days for a Christmas program. I have both vaccines and the booster. I have been subjected to Covid since and have been without symptoms. At this point I have no fear of living life. I understand why some people are still fearful, but I can't live my life that way.

VW

 

[audreyh1]

Y&T sold out our 550 seat small venue. Always wanted to see them, but glad I'm not.

Three hours in a sold out house sounds like a good way to get sick.

We’ve invested in a high quality home audiovisual setup and I enjoy streaming concerts from all over the world.

 

[disneysteve]

I'm going to a large venue in 3 days for a Christmas program. I have both vaccines and the booster. I have been subjected to Covid since and have been without symptoms. At this point I have no fear of living life. I understand why some people are still fearful, but I can't live my life that way.

Who said anything about fear? Where did you even get that from?


You are planning to go to a large Christmas show. Great. Thousands of people were planning to go see the Rockettes Christmas show too. Guess what? They won't be going because all performances have been cancelled due to COVID. So have many Broadway shows. A few NFL games were postponed. Numerous colleges have shut down. Schools are going virtual again. Offices are going remote WFH again.


THERE'S A PANDEMIC GOING ON in case you haven't noticed, and it's getting worse every day. Fear has absolutely nothing to do with it. New York reported the highest number of new cases yesterday ever since the pandemic began.


Ignoring reality doesn't mean you have no fear; it means you're burying your head in the sand and disregarding your own well being and that of everyone around you.

 

[disneysteve]

If you look carefully you can see a very faint line for yesterday evening - that is already a positive result.

Yep. The 3rd one is definitely positive. There was really no reason to do the 4th one. One positive is all you need.

 

[RobbieB]

We’ve invested in a high quality home audiovisual setup and I enjoy streaming concerts from all over the world.

I like those, but no match for live in person Rock & Roll -

 

[VanWinkle]

Who said anything about fear? Where did you even get that from?


You are planning to go to a large Christmas show. Great. Thousands of people were planning to go see the Rockettes Christmas show too. Guess what? They won't be going because all performances have been cancelled due to COVID. So have many Broadway shows. A few NFL games were postponed. Numerous colleges have shut down. Schools are going virtual again. Offices are going remote WFH again.


THERE'S A PANDEMIC GOING ON in case you haven't noticed, and it's getting worse every day. Fear has absolutely nothing to do with it. New York reported the highest number of new cases yesterday ever since the pandemic began.


Ignoring reality doesn't mean you have no fear; it means you're burying your head in the sand and disregarding your own well being and that of everyone around you.

I realize there is a PANDEMIC GOING ON in case you didn't read my post that you quoted. Fear may not be the right word for taking extra precautions to the point that you can't live your life without someone on the internet telling you what you should be doing. I know many people that have become shut-ins because they are in fear of getting sick with Covid. That doesn't mean they should change their behavior, but they have given up something to feel secure. I don't second guess anyone's decision, and I have received everything the CDC has recommended. If the event is cancelled due to the danger, I will not attend.

I did not appreciate your "burying your head in the sand" quote and would not have been so disturbed by an honest discussion of the subject.

Best to you in the future,

VW

 

[Al in Ohio]

Exactly. Christmas is going to be a mess as everyone visits family and friends despite all of the warnings not to do so.



If you insist on seeing people, please, please, please do a rapid test immediately before you leave. Not the day before. Not even that morning if you aren't going until the evening. Test yourself as close as possible to when the interaction will occur. And make sure everybody who will attend the gathering is doing the same thing.

The problem now is a big shortage on rapid tests that just started a week ago.

 

[Calico]

Who said anything about fear? Where did you even get that from?


You are planning to go to a large Christmas show. Great. Thousands of people were planning to go see the Rockettes Christmas show too. Guess what? They won't be going because all performances have been cancelled due to COVID. So have many Broadway shows. A few NFL games were postponed. Numerous colleges have shut down. Schools are going virtual again. Offices are going remote WFH again.


THERE'S A PANDEMIC GOING ON in case you haven't noticed, and it's getting worse every day. Fear has absolutely nothing to do with it. New York reported the highest number of new cases yesterday ever since the pandemic began.


Ignoring reality doesn't mean you have no fear; it means you're burying your head in the sand and disregarding your own well being and that of everyone around you.

+1000

 

[Sunset]

Exactly. Christmas is going to be a mess as everyone visits family and friends despite all of the warnings not to do so.

If you insist on seeing people, please, please, please do a rapid test immediately before you leave. Not the day before. Not even that morning if you aren't going until the evening. Test yourself as close as possible to when the interaction will occur. And make sure everybody who will attend the gathering is doing the same thing.

We were invited to a family Christmas eve party, normally there is about 30-40 people there.
Unfortunately, the "kids" always have 4-5 friends come over as well. So there will be a large mix of folks, from a larger pool of people.

It's like the warnings from the old days: When you have sex with someone, you are having sex with everyone they had sex with...

We turned down the invitation, as there is no way to even ensure everyone is vaccinated & boosted, let alone careful.

 

[Markola]

It’s the restaurants that are concerning me. We are triple vaxxed but, I must say, restaurants are as packed as ever and no one but staff is wearing a mask, which makes no sense.

 

[disneysteve]

I realize there is a PANDEMIC GOING ON in case you didn't read my post that you quoted. Fear may not be the right word for taking extra precautions to the point that you can't live your life without someone on the internet telling you what you should be doing. I know many people that have become shut-ins because they are in fear of getting sick with Covid. That doesn't mean they should change their behavior, but they have given up something to feel secure. I don't second guess anyone's decision, and I have received everything the CDC has recommended. If the event is cancelled due to the danger, I will not attend.

I did not appreciate your "burying your head in the sand" quote and would not have been so disturbed by an honest discussion of the subject.

Best to you in the future,

VW

Just as you using "fear" may not have been the best word, me using "burying your head in the sand" may also have not been the best choice of words on my part, so I apologize for that.

As a front line healthcare worker, it is incredibly frustrating and exhausting and disheartening to diagnose new COVID cases every day in rapidly rising numbers and still see so many people speaking out against vaccines and masks and social distancing. Right now we are still dealing with the fallout of all the people who just had to have their big Thanksgiving get togethers, which resulted in tons of new cases. That will start to taper off in time for all of the people who just have to have their big Christmas parties and NYE events triggering most likely an even bigger wave of cases that carry us well into January.

Caution and fear are definitely related, but are also part of our survival instincts. There's a reason I won't get up on the roof. I don't want to fall off and break my neck. Can you take it too far? Absolutely. Like you, I know people that barely leave their homes. I think that's an overreaction. I still go to the supermarket weekly or Target or out to dinner. I just put on my N95 and go about my business. But that's not a super crowded environment. I'm not shoulder to shoulder with people for an extended time like I would be at a Broadway show or concert for example. The latter are things I don't think people should be doing right now in areas with high transmission rates.

 

[Midpack]

I think it’s pretty clear now in situations like these people need to (antigen) test every day shortly before the event. Testing a couple days ahead doesn’t cut it.

And Omicron will only make it worse.

+1. Unfortunately reports that Omicron is highly contagious but milder (than what?) will lead a lot of people to conclude it’s not as big a threat. While there may be fewer serious cases per capita, there will be more cases which could overwhelm healthcare resources again.

We’re vaccinated and boosted, still wear masks indoors in public (a clear minority), and we don’t go out as nearly as much as we used to/want to. I watched a legit expert yesterday predict Covid will be with us until about 2024 (edit: and then plateau at some level)…I’m sure we’re all already beyond tired of it.

 

[Markola]

^^^^ Really? What changes by 2024? Only 49% of Americans bother with a regular flu shot. I’m assuming it’s with us forever.

 

[Midpack]

^^^^ Really? What changes by 2024? Only 49% of Americans bother with a regular flu shot. I’m assuming it’s with us forever.

I’m sure he didn’t mean it will disappear, so I edited the post above. But herd immunity will improve and unfortunately the most vulnerable will die or become reclusive. Annual Covid vaccines may become the norm.

As you know coronavirus isn’t new, it’s been around for decades if not longer. Most variants don’t jump (from animals) to humans, and not all previous variants have been as dangerous as this one SARS-CoV-2=Covid-19.

And as you know, on average there are still 36,000 flu deaths per year in the US alone. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have some ongoing mortality from Covid we choose to accept. [just my opinion]

 

[Aerides]

Just a reminder of the sticky top thread which applies to all covid threads and posts:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f55/new-area-for-covid-19-topics-readme-102567.html

Threads discussing vaccine positions, personal risk tolerance, behavior judgments, etc., go downhill very quickly and have proven non-viable for positive interactions.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Not to anyone's surprise, infection rates are rising strongly in the western Great Lakes region. I just bought some pricey opera tickets as a treat for DW. It's not till May, so perhaps the surge will burn out by then. ... Or another booster will become available. We're always near the head of the line for our shots!

DD and I attended a performance by Rhiannon Giddens last month, before the surge really kicked in. The show was in an old opera hall that has a limited number of box seats that provide some isolation. I've always liked sitting in the boxes, but the virus makes them all the more desirable. Also, the hall is in Dane County, which has taken the virus seriously. Their precautions are obvious in the relative infection/death rates -- Dane's the lowest of all Wisconsin counties, even though it's among the most populous.

One thing I've noticed is that infection rates don't necessarily rise proportionally with population density. Some more rural areas are seeing the worst of it per capita. I heard a theory that people in sparsely populated areas are at particular risk because resources like supermarkets and restaurants are limited. Everybody's homes are spread out, but they all meet at the same checkout lane, gas pump, etc.

 

[jollystomper]

I find it interesting that the sports outbreaks have occurred among the players, and not the fans. In addition, the players outbreaks all appear to be asymptomatic. I have seen no reports of outbreaks occurring among NFL/NHL/NBA sports gatherings in arenas or stadiums.

As for concerts, I apply nuance to the concert type. A concert were the audience is mostly passive is not likely to be as risky as a concert were folks are shouting/dancing/mosh pitting/banging up against each other.

For the low percentages of colleges that have had outbreaks, would not be surprised if on campus behavior (think "hookups") is a factor. Of course, personal behavior in that regard is rarely investigated.

I have health care workers in my family who are on the front lines, but do not generalize... they see the nuances, and we discuss them, and that gives me comfort.

This is clearly not going to go away, it is cyclical, and just as the flu will cyclically take out people, covid will as continue as well. it does not seem logical to put ones hope in expecting this to go away. In fact, I expect all of us will get covid at some point. However, as the current variant seems, it might just mean that the variants will get milder (requiring no hospitalization), and we deal with it likewise. I'll say no more, I have already blasphemed enough .

 

[audreyh1]

The problem now is a big shortage on rapid tests that just started a week ago.

Picked up several 2 weeks ago. Very glad I did.

 

[audreyh1]

+1. Unfortunately reports that Omicron is highly contagious but milder (than what?) will lead a lot of people to conclude it’s not as big a threat. While there may be fewer serious cases per capita, there will be more cases which could overwhelm healthcare resources again.

We’re vaccinated and boosted, still wear masks indoors in public (a clear minority), and we don’t go out as nearly as much as we used to/want to. I watched a legit expert yesterday predict Covid will be with us until about 2024 (edit: and then plateau at some level)…I’m sure we’re all already beyond tired of it.

Just having completed a 3 day drive across 5 southeastern states I can tell you most places masking indoors in public spaces is almost nonexistent. People have blown Covid off.

Looks like an excellent environment for Omicron spread to me.

 

[disneysteve]

While there may be fewer serious cases per capita, there will be more cases which could overwhelm healthcare resources again.

Exactly. Unfortunately, many people only think in terms of ICU occupancy when they talk about overwhelming the healthcare system but there's a lot more to it than that. As I've mentioned before, urgent cares across the country are swamped, totally overwhelmed with record numbers of patient visits.


My urgent care opened today at 9:00. We closed for the day due to capacity at 10:45. By then, we were already booked solid until closing time. I'm sure we turned away at least as many patients as we saw if not more. I've been doing this for over 5-1/2 years and this is totally unprecedented.