Early retirement is bad ...

[Stormy Kromer]

According to this opinion writer,, a Harvard-trained economist.



https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/01/why...akes-youll-regret-says-harvard-economist.html

Obviously he's talking most about people who haven't planned to be FI before FIRE-ing.

He does cite some reasons people are driven to ER, such as running out of physical or psychological steam.

Also cites some interesting stats:



Would be interesting to see the average and median age that people here take SS.


He is doing what he preaches, says he's 71 and plans to "die in the saddle."

Who aked them?.....

 

[FREE866]

I know I should probably articulate this better, but don't have the energy...the author of that article is a dumbass
Do these people actually get paid well to write articles like this?

 

[Gumby]

.... Do these people actually get paid well to write articles like this?

I think they do, and the more they can crank out articles without really thinking too hard about it, the more they make. I just move on; life is too short to get offended.

 

[Exchme]

How about the plain factual error in that article that "85% of people would be better off waiting until 70" to claim SS.

Really? Are there no spouses that earned much different amounts? No one with health problems?

Seems like most writing for the general public is clickbait with big headlines and fluff that's at least partly wrong these days.

 

[Winemaker]

When you have a platform in which you can spout off about those around you that wish you could be in their shoes, then you spout off! It's easier to spout off than LBYM and impress everyone about your learned profession. At 71, he's probably well into the $200,000 salary, and is collecting the max. SS as well as his spouse, whose, if she was a SHM, (most likely not).

 

[Sunset]

Slightly OT, but I've been wondering what all the restaurant and service industry workers who quit during the Great Resignation are doing these days. Surely they didn't have enough money saved to stop working permanently, so are they working in different industries now? And if they are, that implies they could have worked in those (presumably) better or higher-paying jobs even before the pandemic hit. So why didn't they? Do former frontline service industry workers really have so many other attractive job offers/prospects these days? If so, what about the pandemic has caused this to be the case? Very puzzling.

From the very limited restaurants I go in to pick up food I think I know what happened for many.

Pre-covid, with tips they made good-enough to good money, so no need to look for a better job.

Covid hit and restaurants lost a ton of business, so very few tips for the same job. Even now, I see the restaurant that normally would be busy has a couple of tables and that is all. So still no tips.
So any restaurant worker that wants to earn more money has to find some other job.

 

[Magus]

"My current plan is to die in the saddle. My work is just too rewarding — financially, intellectually and psychologically — to give it up."

Every time I read another article like this, I always think about the legions of folks who can't weigh in...because they "died in the saddle" too early & never enjoyed a single day of retirement freedom at all. They may have a different take on this advice. Serious confirmation bias here.

Their spouses/loved ones may have a different point of view as well, as they would likely trade a much lower standard of living in a heartbeat for more time with the person they love, (vs a more secure nest egg to spend alone.)

I also notice it's typically the academic types with tenure & cushy jobs that often pat themselves on the back for continuing to work and advise others to do the same, as if their daily grind is anywhere close to the stress & exhaustion many corporate, healthcare & blue collar workers face.

Well said!

 

[Magus]

How many of these early retirees still have a working spouse? I think a decent chunk of households have decided to go back to one income stream as well.

 

[Turbo29]

How many of these early retirees still have a working spouse? I think a decent chunk of households have decided to go back to one income stream as well.

They may not have much of a choice due to the lack of in-person school in some areas and the difficulty of finding childcare.

 

[jollystomper]

Do these people actually get paid well to write articles like this?

I think they do, and the more they can crank out articles without really thinking too hard about it, the more they make.

I would not say the get paid "well". But the more they write, the more they get paid. The more words they use, the more they get paid (and in some cases, will create a "Multi-page" article that requires multiple clicks to read the whole thing).

The low pay is why they churn out easy "low-hanging fruit" articles. The real "payoff" is gaining followers in social media, which one can leverage into higher paying gigs. This "gig" economy in action .

 

[ExPatKiwi]

Early retirement isn't bad as life is short! I've been keeping a tally of the retirees from the company I work at and to date the average age of death is 66yo (mostly men). I kid you not that the number of wakes I've had to attend for "retirees" that worked all the way to retirement age of 60/65 depending on their pension plan then died soon after is an eye opener. Is it worth it to work to the bitter end to max out the pension? Would you rather retire and spend $100k/yr for 10 years or $1million/yr for 1 year?

 

[Out of Steam]

Still, almost two-thirds of people — between ages 57 and 66 — choose to retire early out their own volition, despite having saved next to nothing. And most of them are able-bodied, without disabilities that would prevent them from staying on the job.

For the 40 years before the pandemic, finding someone willing to take on a new employee over 55 was very nearly impossible. I suspect that within a couple of years, that will again be the case.

 

[Out of Steam]

Early retirement isn't bad as life is short! I've been keeping a tally of the retirees from the company I work at and to date the average age of death is 66yo (mostly men). I kid you not that the number of wakes I've had to attend for "retirees" that worked all the way to retire age of 60/65 depending on their pension plan then died soon after is an eye opener.

I had planned to continue to work at least part-time, but those plans were foiled by the health risks of the pandemic. We're doing well enough without that extra income.

I'm going to a funeral for one such co-worker next week, who died of cancer before 60, shortly after her husband. She had about a 4 year retirement.

When I contacted another former colleague of about the same age to tell her, I found out that she has had a cancer recurrence that is incurable. Again, about 4 years into retirement.

My brother-in-law keeps track of the people we went to elementary school with, and close to half the men are gone at 62/63.

This week, a local friend invited me on a hiking trip to Colorado this summer. The money might be better spent on the house, but I didn't hesitate before saying yes.

 

[aja8888]

Working after retirement

We live in a 55+ retirement community of single family homes, about 430 of them. Two local neighbors I know personally are working part time, one at Home Depot, the other as a courtesy driver for a Mercedes dealer nearby. Both need the income (they told me) and one is in his early 80's, the other is 79. There are more here still working as I see the cars heading out every morning.

It's a lot more common than one thinks.

 

[ERD50]

I think they do, and the more they can crank out articles without really thinking too hard about it, the more they make. I just move on; life is too short to get offended.

True, but what gets me is the whining from the industry "No one wants to support journalism any more, oh poor us!!!!"

Well, maybe a lot of people got tired of what most media tries to pass off as "journalism"?

-ERD50

 

[daylatedollarshort]

DH gets a monthly retiree newsletter with all the retirees and employees who passed away in the last month. Many passed while still working or within a few months of retirement. No regrets on retiring early at our house. Even if something unexpected happened now, we've had over a decade of fun times.

 

[explanade]

I'm going on 8 years this fall.

The tech industry I left has seen huge compensation growth since then. If nothing else, I would have accumulated a lot more stock, which probably would have equated to a high 6 or 7-figure greater amount for my assets.

Of course my retirement assets have also grown a lot in that time as well.

Don't have the slightest FOMO or OMY regrets at all. I'd have potentially a million more in assets, probably more considering that I increased my spending after FIREing.

Reclaiming all that time is way more invaluable.

Now we could have some crazy stock market decline like 2008 and maybe it doesn't bounce back as quickly as it has since 2009.

Then I might regret not making the pile bigger. But I can easily reduce spending if that's what happens.

 

[GenXguy]

Then I might regret not making the pile bigger. But I can easily reduce spending if that's what happens.

Good luck with that. With inflation as high as it is, I'm having to INCREASE my spending about 15% to 20% over the last year despite not increasing my consumption. And this problem isn't going away anytime soon. And when inflation finally drops back down to a real 3%, that doesn't mean prices are dropping, it just means they won't continue to increase as fast as they have been. So, we are going to continue to see high prices.

There have been some anecdotes about people dying soon after retirement, but you can look up the charts how long a 60 year old (for example) is expected to live. It's more than a few years, let along a few months.

I'm in my mid 50's and would be retiring myself this spring if it wasn't for skyrocketing inflation sidelining those plans for a year. It's a worst case scenario how things have turned out. When they talk about wage inflation helping to compensate workers at least partially for higher prices, that doesn't help me as I'm relying on my stash (not wages or inflation adjusted pension). And even seniors who got a little more on their SS check found they had to spend a lot more on their Medicare premiums, leaving them strapped to pay expenses with what's left over. So, OMY it is for me, at least.

 

[Dtail]

For the 40 years before the pandemic, finding someone willing to take on a new employee over 55 was very nearly impossible. I suspect that within a couple of years, that will again be the case.

+1
Happened to me at 55 y.o. although voluntary.
Then after searching for 15 months, retired at 57 and will never work again.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

And even seniors who got a little more on their SS check found they had to spend a lot more on their Medicare premiums, leaving them strapped to pay expenses with what's left over. So, OMY it is for me, at least.

DH's Medicare payments only went up $22 a month, so so for us not much compared to his SS increase.

 

[FI_RElater]

Good luck with that. With inflation as high as it is, I'm having to INCREASE my spending about 15% to 20% over the last year despite not increasing my consumption. And this problem isn't going away anytime soon. And when inflation finally drops back down to a real 3%, that doesn't mean prices are dropping, it just means they won't continue to increase as fast as they have been. So, we are going to continue to see high prices.

There have been some anecdotes about people dying soon after retirement, but you can look up the charts how long a 60 year old (for example) is expected to live. It's more than a few years, let along a few months.

I'm in my mid 50's and would be retiring myself this spring if it wasn't for skyrocketing inflation sidelining those plans for a year. It's a worst case scenario how things have turned out. When they talk about wage inflation helping to compensate workers at least partially for higher prices, that doesn't help me as I'm relying on my stash (not wages or inflation adjusted pension). And even seniors who got a little more on their SS check found they had to spend a lot more on their Medicare premiums, leaving them strapped to pay expenses with what's left over. So, OMY it is for me, at least.

I can appreciate that... In my modeling, years ago, the one factor that was most concerning was inflation: consistent inflation at 5% and above resulted in failures or required a significantly higher nest egg

[Had we experienced this same inflation conditions we would probably also have done OMY; fortunately we didn't in our earlier years...now in seventh year. Our retirement was predicated on NEVER going back]

 

[Out of Steam]

With inflation as high as it is, I'm having to INCREASE my spending about 15% to 20% over the last year despite not increasing my consumption. And this problem isn't going away anytime soon. And when inflation finally drops back down to a real 3%, that doesn't mean prices are dropping, it just means they won't continue to increase as fast as they have been. So, we are going to continue to see high prices.

Of course, that happened because wages for most low-to-moderate wage jobs were depressed for almost 40 years, generally paying less than double in 2019 what they paid in 1980. Even by the usually understated official figures, prices more than tripled in this period.

 

[Badger]

I also notice it's typically the academic types with tenure & cushy jobs that often pat themselves on the back for continuing to work and advise others to do the same, as if their daily grind is anywhere close to the stress & exhaustion many corporate, healthcare & blue collar workers face.

I retired as a full professor but also successfully worked in industry for a decade. There was stress in both jobs but with different characteristics. When I chose to return to academia that "cushy job" came with a big cut in pay but a lifestyle I enjoyed. I enjoyed the academic environment but took an early retirement due to health concerns. You must have a different experience to know what the typical "academic type" thinks. Most of my colleagues would disagree.


Cheers!

 

[Gumby]

An extremely high number of my law school classmates became professors after graduation. Most of the rest went into various government agencies. A few went into investment banking. Almost no one went into private practice as a litigator like I did. But I knew from the start I would not enjoy being a law professor, because I mostly did not like law students -- imagine spending every day in a room full of generally wealthy, overly ambitious people, none of whom have a clue, but all of whom have an opinion. No, thank you. I will admit that going to law school in my thirties and after having been in the military probably colored my views.

 

[street]

An extremely high number of my law school classmates became professors after graduation. Most of the rest went into various government agencies. A few went into investment banking. Almost no one went into private practice as a litigator like I did. But I knew from the start I would not enjoy being a law professor, because I mostly did not like law students -- imagine spending every day in a room full of generally wealthy, overly ambitious people, none of whom have a clue, but all of whom have an opinion. No, thank you. I will admit that going to law school in my thirties and after having been in the military probably colored my views.

I think from any degrees a person can get a lawyer/attorney is an education that can take you into many different types of work.
Law students get into many manager type jobs of all sorts of businesses. I have a daughter in-law that is an attorney and works in private law firm as a partner.