43, failed early retiree, seeking non-financial advice

[tmitchell]

I can see it’d be difficult to move from a very structured career in the military to retirement. Maybe try to think about finding structure rather than a job. You don’t need to earn, so how about apply your skills to something useful or interesting and take “earning” out of the equation? You’ll probably end up earning anyway but if you’re engaged with something meaningful maybe it won’t feel so much like a job.

 

[SnowballCamper]

Yeah, retiring is much more than a financial decision. I was never a very good cultural match for the Army, but I stuck with it for bonuses and training opportunities until the retirement was too close to pass up. As I result, I too developed the knack for saying things that most other people won't say. This is good for promoting organizational change, but not so much as a teacher, in my experience at the local community college.

With the new freedom, continue to try new stuff until you find something that fits...or develop your skill as a change agent and spin it into consulting...sounds like you're good at it.

For my own part, I found some good volunteer opportunities pre-covid, and started building boats when covid broke out. Volunteer organizations can be like military units in that you click in some, but others are pretty crappy. Good Luck!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

The job I’m doing now is fairly low stress and the money is good, I think that’s why I have a hard time leaving. I’ve thought about the self employed option. My wife has a small business. She likes the work part of that business, but isn’t too interested in the management/financial side. I do have the option of running the business side of it for her. Thanks!

This would be a good option as long as y'all can w*rk together. I would make sure there are established rules of the road that both of you can agree with.

Out of curiosity, is your DW also retired? I am also retired from the military and while my DW *could* also retire, she has refused to do so. Thankfully, she doesn't resent my retirement lifestyle but I could see how it could affect some relationships.

 

[Jkirk]

find a job or start business you like. DH won't retire because he loves what he does. I asked what if we really have a ton of money? said what the hell will he do? So to work he goes. Guess he just likes it.

Yes, my wife doesn’t understand why I’d work if I don’t have to. I like it, for the most part, but there are times when I wonder why I’m doing it.

 

[Jkirk]

This would be a good option as long as y'all can w*rk together. I would make sure there are established rules of the road that both of you can agree with.

Out of curiosity, is your DW also retired? I am also retired from the military and while my DW *could* also retire, she has refused to do so. Thankfully, she doesn't resent my retirement lifestyle but I could see how it could affect some relationships.

That’s a concern I have: we both like to be in charge. We work well together when we have clear lines of responsibility. We’d need to carve up the work first or it could be bad…. Our kids are wide spread in age and my wife never got back into the work force after our first kid came along since she wanted to be home with them. So, I’d say she’s retired. I think she’s thankful that my career gave us a pension that lets us not worry about money anymore, but I think not ever having a career of her own bothers her. I’m being as supportive as I can be for her business, I think it’s good for her. I don’t want to do anything to make it less enjoyable for her. She likes to quilt. We bought her an enormous long arm quilting machine and started an LLC. She just accepted her first job this week. I’m pretty excited for her.

 

[Jkirk]

Yeah, retiring is much more than a financial decision.

I put too much emphasis on the financial part, I think I got that part right. I should have put more thought in the other parts. Oh well, I get to work on that now! I can’t complain, being 43 and not needing to work is a good place to be.

 

[Jkirk]

I can see it’d be difficult to move from a very structured career in the military to retirement. Maybe try to think about finding structure rather than a job. You don’t need to earn, so how about apply your skills to something useful or interesting and take “earning” out of the equation? You’ll probably end up earning anyway but if you’re engaged with something meaningful maybe it won’t feel so much like a job.

Losing the structure was difficult. I was in from age 17 to 42. I had a good career, I worked very hard on something I believed in with a group of people I’d go anywhere with. Going from that to fully retired in a single day was just too much.

I think you’re right. It’s purpose and structure I’m after. It’s convenient that the way I get it now comes with more money, but we just save it all anyways so it’s not making our lives any better.

 

[Jkirk]

If you don't need the money, create daily structure in your retirement life.
Take classes at a local community college, volunteer somewhere of interest, become a Big Brother or child advocate.
Make a list of things to do every day and cross them off so you have a sense of accomplishment.
Read Ernie Zelinksi book "How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free" and complete his Tree of Life exercise.

There are many here who were worried about "what to do all day", a few weeks/months of retirement and it becomes "when did I ever find time to work?"

Get busy living or get busy dying.
Enjoy Life, Retirement is Grand!

I read that book about 3 years before I retired. Excellent idea, I’ll dig it up and read it again!

 

[Jkirk]

That is some good self-awareness you have there. Maybe consider a stint with a therapist to help you determine a better path? You seem to need structure that most ER lives avoid, but you can certainly find it without a boss/job.

You’re probably right. Not sure I can bring myself to do that.

 

[Jkirk]

"My tolerance for BS" was also always extremely low, and I quit a defense contractor job (no military experience) after 5 years. That was in 1980, so the environment was very different than today. At the ned of my career I worked at mega-defense-contractor for 7-8 years, and then small-defense-contractor for 5 years. So I met many ex-service, especially in the last two jobs.

Some stayed in contracting, others found jobs as DoD expanded. I suppose it depends on your goals, what you think is best for your family.

Many defense jobs require a lot of travel, plenty of meetings, and a healthy dose of BS. In larger entities there is more organization. In smaller companies you get the BS, but there was more freedom, at least for me.

My guess is that you'll have a difficult time finding the same type of team environment that got you through 20 years. I'm sure you saw the mission then, but I can tell you from experience that it is difficult to find that feeling anywhere that I've experienced.

The right boss makes a big difference. So focus on picking a boss, rather than letting things work the other way. Maybe you're the pick, meaning go with self-employment? You seem to want that challenge.

What you’re saying resonates with me. I work for a defense contractor now. The project I’m on has a matrixed staff. People support different efforts which results in having different bosses for different activities. That’s the part I don’t like about the job.

 

[Jkirk]

Retired from USN at 44, and lasted a few months before I had to go back to work (DoD contractor) at 45. Needed more money in order to build a new house. But now 4 years later, the BS bucket is pretty full, and I'm tired of cubicle life. More importantly, I no longer need the extra money. Job itself is pretty easy, low stress, good people, and good money, but there's still more BS than I need to put up with (Yup, working at the Pentagon).

In a few months, I'll start a "sabattical."

Enjoy that sabbatical, maybe it will turn into retirement. I retired out of Quantico VA, I couldn’t do that Pentagon commute! Because of the telework opportunities driven by the pandemic, I’m able to work from home in the Midwest for a defense contractor on the east coast. I need to have a plan for what’s next before try to retire again. I was pretty burned out when I retired, so I did it to get away from something, but I didn’t have something to retire to.

 

[Rambler]

I really understand where you are coming from. When I retired 9 years ago, my BS bucket was overflowing. I’ll come back to that, but first:

It sounds like you had a plan to retire FROM something, but not TO something. In other words, you didn’t have a plan for what you were going to do once you retired FROM the military. I had some loose plans on what I was going to do. Problem is, I was too efficient and fulfilled them pretty early on. I found a few new things to do, too, and did those.

Then I got bored, and decided I’d go back to work. So, to do that, I started working on some professional certifications to enter a new industry. As I was doing so, I found a variety of things I just didn’t ever want to deal with again included in the job requirements. So, I dropped that idea. The thing is, whenever I thought about having to deal with the BS again, I started feeling like I always felt on sunday evenings, or like the last day of vacation…ie, a nervous wreck. So now, I’m planning new non-work things to do to enjoy my time.

My advice to you, would probably be to keep working for a while. See if you can find something within that work that challenges you in a way you enjoy, beyond the negative challenge of the corporate bs. While you are doing that, start looking for things you want to retire TO, things that you want to do with your life that you can enjoy. A good thing to do would be to find things you can do together with your spouse, as well as things you can do or want to do alone and also things you may want to do with friends or buddies. I will say this: if you retire again with nothing to retire to, you’ll find yourself bored again.

 

[ut2sua]

... but I didn’t have something to retire to.

OP, you are pretty young even for the FIRE crowd. You will know it when the time comes to slow things down, and it feels like its time to look at life from a different angle. Getting my free time is the most expensive purchase I have ever made in my life (think: getting a Tesla costs 6 figures in 5 years, getting 5 years of free time cost 7 figures for some of us - in lost salary). Pay for it only when you are ready to do so. Good luck

 

[Jkirk]

I really understand where you are coming from. When I retired 9 years ago, my BS bucket was overflowing. I’ll come back to that, but first:

It sounds like you had a plan to retire FROM something, but not TO something. In other words, you didn’t have a plan for what you were going to do once you retired FROM the military. I had some loose plans on what I was going to do. Problem is, I was too efficient and fulfilled them pretty early on. I found a few new things to do, too, and did those.

Then I got bored, and decided I’d go back to work. So, to do that, I started working on some professional certifications to enter a new industry. As I was doing so, I found a variety of things I just didn’t ever want to deal with again included in the job requirements. So, I dropped that idea. The thing is, whenever I thought about having to deal with the BS again, I started feeling like I always felt on sunday evenings, or like the last day of vacation…ie, a nervous wreck. So now, I’m planning new non-work things to do to enjoy my time.

My advice to you, would probably be to keep working for a while. See if you can find something within that work that challenges you in a way you enjoy, beyond the negative challenge of the corporate bs. While you are doing that, start looking for things you want to retire TO, things that you want to do with your life that you can enjoy. A good thing to do would be to find things you can do together with your spouse, as well as things you can do or want to do alone and also things you may want to do with friends or buddies. I will say this: if you retire again with nothing to retire to, you’ll find yourself bored again.

Hi Rambler, thanks for the thoughtful response! You hit the mail on the head. I was very burned out and I needed out. I absolutely retired from something and the thing I retired to just needed to be different.

I’ve actually started a list (getting pretty long now) of things to do when I retire again. With the job, I like the work I do and most of the people I work with. It’s nice to have the luxury of knowing that I can quit any time I want and my standard of living won’t change.

Unless things take a turn for the worse at work, I’ll probably work for a few years. Two of my kids are still young, so I don’t have the freedom to travel at will anyways.

 

[Jkirk]

OP, you are pretty young even for the FIRE crowd. You will know it when the time comes to slow things down, and it feels like its time to look at life from a different angle. Getting my free time is the most expensive purchase I have ever made in my life (think: getting a Tesla costs 6 figures in 5 years, getting 5 years of free time cost 7 figures for some of us - in lost salary). Pay for it only when you are ready to do so. Good luck

Good advice. One good thing about working after retirement is that I’m 100% remote, a little travel, and I work no more than 40 per week. I usually hit my 40 around noon on Friday and I let everyone know that they’ve got their pound of flesh for the week and I’m on family time now. I couldn’t do that in my career.

Regarding my age, that drove me back to work too. We relocated to a very LCOL area to be near family. People here don’t retire in their 40s. 65 year old neighbor would be heading to work at 7am and I’d be on my porch drinking coffee. I already don’t fit the mold in this small town, not working when people my parents age still are made it worse.

 

[Jkirk]

I second the idea that part-time would seem to be a good fit for you, if you can find that job. Part-time is how I ended my career while still working at my same job. Really worked out nice for me, I even structured it to be most weeks Tue-Wed-Thur and had 4 day weekends. Your case is different, but you can search for a part-time position.

I also did go back to a total stress free part-time job for about 7 months after retired for about 18 months. That job was working at a local auto parts store, which was completely different than my career as an engineer, but had some interest for me as my hobby is old cars. I was only working the job two (sometimes three filling in extra) 8-hour days for a little structure, something to do and get out of the house interacting with people some. Ultimately that was enough after 7 months and I quit when DW and I went south snowbirding. Upon return it was covid shutdowns and never went back. No more work for me now, I don't need the structure or interactions. Being retired does take a little time to adjust and figure out what your days and weeks will spend time on.

I still have a small home based side business that I have had for 14 years now. Also related to my old car hobby, so it is not really like work. It is very part-time and does not interfere with my normal everyday activities. I guess that still is technically some work, but I mostly do the business as a tax benefit as opposed to the actual profit.

I met an old retired Marine working at a Home Depot a while back. As he was showing me where something was, he explained how much he loved his job. He said:

“I show people where stuff is. If a few minutes, I’m going to cook hot dogs on the grill for customers for a while. Then I’ll show people where stuff is.”

I still think about that guy. I’ve thought that may be fun. Get a job at the hardware store helping people find the hammers.

A retired friend of mine calls it “catch and release.” He just keeps trying new things. Most things, he drops and moves on to the next thing.

 

[target2019]

What you’re saying resonates with me. I work for a defense contractor now. The project I’m on has a matrixed staff. People support different efforts which results in having different bosses for different activities. That’s the part I don’t like about the job.

That would drive me crazy, too. In the final job I was matrixed by the customer. That is why I could get through five years before pulling the plug. To a large extent I was able to avoid the defense contractor management BS, and get treated like an adult by the customer and her team. I was in the same location, which was pretty relaxed, lots of trees, herd of deer, etc.

From another comment you made, local hardware store sounds great. "Catch and release," indeed.

Having the active clearance is valuable. You might find a better fishing hole for awhile.

 

[Jkirk]

To a large extent I was able to avoid the defense contractor management BS, and get treated like an adult by the customer and her team.

It’s a team of 30 or so people that manage a specific kind of IT projects for the Marine Corps and I’m 1 of only 2 retired Marines on the team, so I do get treated pretty well since I have a perspective that they need. Overall, it’s a good fit. They literally created the position for me, wrote the position description based on my resume.

I’ve just noticed that I have a short fuse for wanting to quit now that I don’t need the money. Every few weeks, some shenanigans will irritate me, I’ll update my budget spreadsheet to exclude the pay to triple check that I don’t need it, and gripe to my wife about the job while she just nods and tells me to quit. Then the next day is good and I’m all better for the next few weeks.

 

[target2019]

It’s a team of 30 or so people that manage a specific kind of IT projects for the Marine Corps and I’m 1 of only 2 retired Marines on the team, so I do get treated pretty well since I have a perspective that they need. Overall, it’s a good fit. They literally created the position for me, wrote the position description based on my resume.

I’ve just noticed that I have a short fuse for wanting to quit now that I don’t need the money. Every few weeks, some shenanigans will irritate me, I’ll update my budget spreadsheet to exclude the pay to triple check that I don’t need it, and gripe to my wife about the job while she just nods and tells me to quit. Then the next day is good and I’m all better for the next few weeks.

What helped me was to evaluate the job yearly, and make the decision to commit for another year, or just close up shop. So I put off my soul-searching to December, and thought a lot about the position then. But a year's too long for you.

 

[Jkirk]

What helped me was to evaluate the job yearly, and make the decision to commit for another year, or just close up shop. So I put off my soul-searching to December, and thought a lot about the position then. But a year's too long for you.

I love that approach!

 

[gauss]

I retired from the military in 2020 at age 42 when my pension reached the point of supporting our lifestyle. We also have enough in savings and retirement accounts to provide a nice safety net and lifestyle upgrade when our youngest kids are grown and my wife and I are 55. Kids’ college is also funded.

I lasted 3 months in retirement, got terribly bored (depressed if I’m being honest) and went back to work. I have a dilemma. I need the challenges, structure, and team environment that work offers, but my tolerance for BS is extremely low now that I don’t need the money that a job brings.

A year in to that first post-retirement job, I grew tired of things and changed jobs. Now almost a year into my second post-retirement job, I’m growing tired of things and thinking about quitting. Seeing a pattern, I’ve found the problem and he is me.

I planned for early retirement for 20 years and found that it wasn’t all that I imagined it would be. Anyone else experience something like this?

I got involved with a couple of volunteer gigs after retirement. They definitely challenged me. Both of the are what I would call "white collar" volunteering as opposed to "blue collar".

10 years later in my upper 50's, I have finally found and trained a replacement for myself on one of the gigs and it feels like I am retiring all over again (In a good way).

Both of my gigs were annual committments that I renewed annually. They both ran about 6 months during the year and then I had 6 months off to take care of my life. The problem was that both ran during the same 6 months.

This worked for me. YMMV.

-gauss

 

[Jkirk]

I got involved with a couple of volunteer gigs after retirement. They definitely challenged me. Both of the are what I would call "white collar" volunteering as opposed to "blue collar".

10 years later in my upper 50's, I have finally found and trained a replacement for myself on one of the gigs and it feels like I am retiring all over again (In a good way).

Both of my gigs were annual committments that I renewed annually. They both ran about 6 months during the year and then I had 6 months off to take care of my life. The problem was that both ran during the same 6 months.

This worked for me. YMMV.

-gauss

There is a wildlife preserve near my home that seems to have a pretty well developed volunteer program. That’s near the top of my list for when I retire again. I think feeding wolves and bears and doing some trail maintenance sounds like a pretty good day.

 

[aaronc879]

I don't understand the concept of wanting to work if not financially required. I would have retired at 18 if I didn't need the money so can't relate on that issue. That said, I agree with others who suggest self employment. Do you have skills that you could lend out for a price(contract work?)? This allows you to work when you want to on jobs you want to and take off when you want to.

 

[Jkirk]

I don't understand the concept of wanting to work if not financially required. I would have retired at 18 if I didn't need the money so can't relate on that issue. That said, I agree with others who suggest self employment. Do you have skills that you could lend out for a price(contract work?)? This allows you to work when you want to on jobs you want to and take off when you want to.

For the first part, sorry, I can’t explain why I’m wired this way. I’ve been working a job since I was 13 and I did odd jobs around the neighborhood before that. When I tried to not work in 2020, there was this big hole in me. I felt useless, and it’s important to me to feel useful. I suppose I obtain fulfillment or draw my sense of self worth from being useful. ??

For the second part, I like that idea. I need to learn more about consultant work in my field. I could see the job I’m doing now leading to that.

 

[ScoopKona]

I grew tired of things and changed jobs. Now almost a year into my second post-retirement job, I’m growing tired of things and thinking about quitting.

You have described my work life.

I have had four distinct careers so far, and I'm now working on my fifth -- the first career was made miserable by the internet. It *was* a good career. Then everything I liked about it evaporated.

So I sat down with my girlfriend (now wife) and we talked about what I wanted to do next. I decided to brew beer for a living. ("Porn star" was considered and dismissed/vetoed.) So I went back to school and did that for 20 years. While doing that, I became a landlord -- a career in real estate went from "side hustle" to "main income generator."



By the time I was 40, I didn't really need to work anymore. So I went to culinary school and became a chef -- not because I needed the money but because I thought it would be fun.

And it was -- until I had hit the goals I set for myself. Once I wasn't learning something new every day, it ceased to be fun. So then I retired "for good." And now I'm a gentleman farmer.

The point to all this rambling is that if you're burning out on jobs fast, and don't need the income, then I suggest that you grab a pen. Write down the top 10 or 20 things you'd like to do -- no matter how unlikely. Write down even the pipe dreams.

And then see if there are any common threads that you can weave into something that doesn't leave you unfulfilled/depressed/burnt-out.