What to do with gold coins

[JoeWras]

This is the retail value. You will not get that from a coin dealer. They have to have some room to make a profit. It's like the difference between the trade in value of a car and the retail price. Do shop them around to many dealers and see who will offer the most.

I also liked working with local dealers instead of online dealers because they are my neighbors and put some of their profit back into the local economy. Yes, they get a cut. That's fair.

 

[folivier]

About 12 or 13 years ago I bought 8 Maple Leafs through my broker so there was no premium paid. I still have them and give one to each of my grandchildren at their first birthday. Mostly as a novelty but when they are adults hopefully they'll think fondly of their old pawpaw. If they haven't sold them....

 

[Car-Guy]

This is the retail value. You will not get that from a coin dealer. They have to have some room to make a profit. It's like the difference between the trade in value of a car and the retail price. Do shop them around to many dealers and see who will offer the most.

Actually, that's about what I'd get at a coin show "today" + or - $10... I don't sell to individual coin shops... At a coin show you have lot's of competition (many dealers at one place). So I can usually get the "bid" price. (near spot) They (dealers) make their money by selling at the "ask" price... Or what's called the spread. Which these days can be ~$100+ for 1 oz American Eagles, the last time I looked. At least that's the way it works for me. But YMMV

 

[CRLLS]

Actually in today's market I get spot + (for the bullion being in coin form). A gold bar my be different... Years ago I'd get a little under spot like you said (1 or 2%, maybe), for such a coin, but I guess things have changed since the last time I sold, I got a premium over spot (bid). Of course if I was buying, the "ask" was even higher. YMMV

Agreed. DW sold a 1/2 oz Swiss coin earlier this year at on of the coin and precious metal places. She got a small amount over the Gold value. Now, after another thread here, I wonder if she'll get a 1099-K.

On a side note, they even bought silver plate that other places did not. They didn't pay much. They bought it based on the copper value under the plating.

 

[Trailwalker]

Agreed. DW sold a 1/2 oz Swiss coin earlier this year at on of the coin and precious metal places. She got a small amount over the Gold value. Now, after another thread here, I wonder if she'll get a 1099-K.

On a side note, they even bought silver plate that other places did not. They didn't pay much. They bought it based on the copper value under the plating.

I got a 1099-K when I sold a gold coin gifted by my parents half a dozen years ago. They purchased gold during the 70's when inflation was rampant, and my mother was convinced the end of the world was coming.

Unfortunately, they have none of the sales paperwork so I have no evidence of basis. IIRC, the coin was Austrian. I sold it mainly to see what it was worth. Now that we are living on post-tax savings during the ACA years, I'll probably sell the other coins that I have while income/capital gains are low.

 

[Car-Guy]

Agreed. DW sold a 1/2 oz Swiss coin earlier this year at on of the coin and precious metal places. She got a small amount over the Gold value. Now, after another thread here, I wonder if she'll get a 1099-K.

On a side note, they even bought silver plate that other places did not. They didn't pay much. They bought it based on the copper value under the plating.

One of the nice things about buying and selling coins and bullion "at a coin show" (at least here in Texas) is that almost everything is done in cash and handshakes... Beside their inventory, coin dealers at coins shows carry two things around here, lot's of cash and loaded guns. That's not a joke, I'm deadly serious. (no pun intended)

 

[ncbill]

OP will get the best price if they are willing to go to the trouble of selling them one at a time on eBay.

I'd probably go the coin show route, though, for convenience.

Wouldn't take them to a local shop.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

This is the retail value. You will not get that from a coin dealer. They have to have some room to make a profit. It's like the difference between the trade in value of a car and the retail price. Do shop them around to many dealers and see who will offer the most.

All I can say is that I will pay the OP SPOT + $50 ($1778 + $25 = $1828) for every US Golden Eagle she has (per ounce).
Disclaimer: Obviously they have to be real and it is an offer based on current spot.

 

[Spock]

This is the retail value. You will not get that from a coin dealer. They have to have some room to make a profit. It's like the difference between the trade in value of a car and the retail price. Do shop them around to many dealers and see who will offer the most.

The old rule of thumb was you bought at a premium and sold at a discount to spot (paper market). The last two years has had a couple of windows where gold and silver coins (physical) were selling at huge premiums because physical coins where scarce - ex. c*vid shut down mints, the great silver squeeze when the reddit squad aimed (briefly) at silver instead of GameStop, and then there are the supposed runs on the LMBA, etc. So dealers would pay over spot to restock.

It's mildly funny when bullion stackers complain the price of metals (spot) are being artificially suppressed yet then are shocked that "dealers are charging premiums way above normal" when supply dislocations occur and thus the paper price detaches from the physical price.

Right now is one of those windows where you can sell your coins above spot. Your local coin shop may not do enough volume that they would need to restock so they aren't paying as much. But the online dealers are short inventory so they are currently paying over spot for coins (and selling for even higher over spot).

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

The old rule of thumb was you bought at a premium and sold at a discount to spot (paper market). The last two years has had a couple of windows where gold and silver coins (physical) were selling at huge premiums because physical coins where scarce - ex. c*vid shut down mints, the great silver squeeze when the reddit squad aimed (briefly) at silver instead of GameStop, and then there are the supposed runs on the LMBA, etc. So dealers would pay over spot to restock.

It's mildly funny when bullion stackers complain the price of metals (spot) are being artificially suppressed yet then are shocked that "dealers are charging premiums way above normal" when supply dislocations occur and thus the paper price detaches from the physical price.

Right now is one of those windows where you can sell your coins above spot. Your local coin shop may not do enough volume that they would need to restock so they aren't paying as much. But the online dealers are short inventory so they are currently paying over spot for coins (and selling for even higher over spot).

As of 12/2 (using PCGS/NGC for gold, JM Bullion for Silver) for reasonably "competitive" online dealer retail prices:
Gold Silver Eagle has a 12.5% premium over spot
Silver Eagle has a 81.7% premium over spot

The above have moved *down* slightly as spot prices have risen, but the ASE premiums over the last year or so have really skyrocketed.

$SLV holdings have decreased this year, perhaps due to your mentioned "run on the LMBA". That is, a lessoned trust in the holders of physical silver in far away places / fear of those assets perhaps not being properly backed.

 

[SecondCor521]

Questions related to this thread but I am not the OP:

1. Assuming a PCGS graded $50 Buffalo 1oz gold proof coin, where/how is easiest to sell at or near PCGS price list price?

2. I suspect the coin may still be in OGP. Does PCGS remove it from OGP when grading? (Does it matter?)

3. For tax purposes, are they collectibles or not?

 

[Graybeard]

I'll toss this out there for the OP to consider and those more knowledgeable can comment.

I remember several years ago gold was sky rocketing in value, it went into the upper $1900/oz and I think even slightly above $2000. Gold was, and I assume still is, taxed as a collectable and back then the minimum was 27%. So if you inherit the coins is your cost basis the value at the time you inherit them? And if you hold them and sell them years later at a higher price, isn't the cap gain taxed at collectible rates which may be higher than 27%?

I say this because I heard a discussion about inheriting a house from a deceased parent, your cost basis is the current value. If you hold the house and it appreciates then you owe cap gains on the current cost basis. So the advice was to sell the house and not have to deal with cap gains one day, the person did not want to live in the house and it would take some time to fix it up to sell and a Covid type real estate boom could create a lot of cap gains.

So maybe the coins are similar? If your cost basis is the current value maybe it is best to sell them now.

 

[SecondCor521]

Gold was, and I assume still is, taxed as a collectable and back then the minimum was 27%. So if you inherit the coins is your cost basis the value at the time you inherit them? And if you hold them and sell them years later at a higher price, isn't the cap gain taxed at collectible rates which may be higher than 27%?

I say this because I heard a discussion about inheriting a house from a deceased parent, your cost basis is the current value. If you hold the house and it appreciates then you owe cap gains on the current cost basis. So the advice was to sell the house and not have to deal with cap gains one day, the person did not want to live in the house and it would take some time to fix it up to sell and a Covid type real estate boom could create a lot of cap gains.

So maybe the coins are similar? If your cost basis is the current value maybe it is best to sell them now.

Whether gold and/or gold coins are collectibles or not is defined by the IRS here: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plan...-accounts#:~:text=Definition of a Collectible

OP's coins may be excluded based on 26 USC 408(m)(3)(A).

The capital gains rate on collectibles may be up to 28%. It gets sorted in the capital gains worksheets.

All capital assets - gold, houses, coins, stocks - get a step up in value to FMV as of the date of death.

Selling a house for a capital gain, even after paying taxes, would still leave you with more money. Usually a sale shortly after inheritance doesn't result in a capital gain because selling costs can be used to produce a capital loss (which may or may not be deductible).

If the cost basis in the coins is higher than FMV, it's probably better to sell and realize the loss, or gift and let the seller have a dual cost basis. If the cost basis is below FMV, usually it's better to inherit them in order to get the step up in basis and escape the taxation on any unrealized gains through death.

 

[CRLLS]

So if the value of gold coins sold are now reported on a 1099-K and the coin was a gift from an employer, what is the basis? We can only guess the value at the time of the gift, maybe 18-20 years ago.

 

[Jerry1]

So if the value of gold coins sold are now reported on a 1099-K and the coin was a gift from an employer, what is the basis? We can only guess the value at the time of the gift, maybe 18-20 years ago.

Sometimes you just have to do the best you can. If the IRS audits you, they’ll have to figure out a better method or walk away. I doubt it would ever be an issue. Given your example, I think it would be fair to look back at the price of gold 18 years ago and 20 years ago and strike an average. If you know it was a year end bonus that is always on a certain date, pick that date for your averages. Showing an auditor a thought out rationale for how you came up with your number will go a long way to putting an issue to rest. Note, I was a government auditor. Not an IRS auditor, but an auditor. Most just want to get the audit done and move on. If you just picked a number at random or used the highest spot price in your timeframe, I would have a finding and I would probably pick the lowest spot price in your timeframe and move on. Of course that assumes that there was some variability in the years chosen. It also assumes that the amount is material.

 

[Poopycat]

Whether gold and/or gold coins are collectibles or not is defined by the IRS here: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plan...-accounts#:~:text=Definition of a Collectible

OP's coins may be excluded based on 26 USC 408(m)(3)(A).

The capital gains rate on collectibles may be up to 28%. It gets sorted in the capital gains worksheets.

All capital assets - gold, houses, coins, stocks - get a step up in value to FMV as of the date of death.

Selling a house for a capital gain, even after paying taxes, would still leave you with more money. Usually a sale shortly after inheritance doesn't result in a capital gain because selling costs can be used to produce a capital loss (which may or may not be deductible).

If the cost basis in the coins is higher than FMV, it's probably better to sell and realize the loss, or gift and let the seller have a dual cost basis. If the cost basis is below FMV, usually it's better to inherit them in order to get the step up in basis and escape the taxation on any unrealized gains through death.

My gosh, you are all so knowledgeable it’s scary! I knew I’d get some good answers here.

My dad passed away in 2010. He had a trust so his assets were passed onto me. I’ll have to look at the details of the trust because I don’t know whether the coins were included in the trust. On a separate note, he also left me (well, my parents left me…it was passed on from my maternal grandfather) mineral rights on some land in Montana and I’m going to have to hire an attorney because I’m worried these rights may not have been included properly in the trust either. I think they were but I’ve gotten quite a few unsolicited offers to buy these rights and I need to make sure I have the proper paperwork together in case I ever decide to sell.

My safe deposit box is in TX so maybe I’ll look for a coin show down there and plan to head down one weekend. Goldline used to be willing to buy the coins back for a premium but I’m sure that premium would be big. I’m just excited that maybe these coins are actually worth something! Goldline had so many Consumer Reports issues that I thought maybe the coins were bogus.

 

[Poopycat]

If they are more than a year old and look like this then they are probably American Gold Eagles minted since 1986... (22 k gold) The reverse design changed in 21 or 22 (IIRC). Regardless, the value is about ~$1875 per 1oz coin on today's market. Any reputable coin dealer should give you that... Easy to sell at coin shows for that too. You can shop them around at a coin show or at coin dealers but they are all going to pay the same (bullion prices + a little for it being a coin) which change slightly day to day. Proof Gold Eagles will be worth a little more but 99% of Gold coin are regular issue. (not proofs)

BTW, American Gold Eagles are not "pure gold" since they have other elements in them to make them harder so they won't scratch/bend or otherwise damage so easily. Regardless, if it says 1 oz on the coin, it has 1 full oz of Gold plus a small amount of the other elements to make them harder..

They look like the ones in the picture, with a date stamp of 2008 if I remember correctly.

 

[Samsung4321]

I have sold bullion coins in USA one at a time for cash. No identification requested and no records kept.

I could find no requirement to declare gold of any value at USA Customs web site, unlike cash where amount $10,000+ must be declared.

Passing through USA Customs, I asked if I should declare gold and they did not know so I did not and carried various one once coins valued ~$9,000.

Seems gold has a special, silent, place in USA Law.

There seems to be a legitimate gold buyer in every noteworthy USA town willing to buy. Some check just the appearance. Some check tone when hit, weight, size, density, electrical resistivity, XRay fluorescence, ...

Tungsten has exactly the same density a gold but difference electrical resistivity etc.

Beware dodgy dealers (rare) switching for a fake and refusing to buy.

I carry a few gold coins in case my Australian based credit cards cease working.

 

[Jerry1]

I carry a few gold coins in case my Australian based credit cards cease working.

Interesting. Never thought of carrying some gold. Actually, a pretty easy way to carry a good amount of money in a very small package. Not completely liquid, but as you said, in most cities, there will be a pretty easy way to sell gold.

 

[sengsational]

With the $10K or more worth of gold when leaving the country...I think that needs to be investigated a bit more.

 

[CRLLS]

While the import of gold to the USA in any form has no duty, it must be declared on form FinCEN Form 105 if all "currency" exceeds 10,000 value. At least according to CBP.

see:

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Arti...is no duty on,gold coins, valued over $10,000.

FinCEN definition of currency: The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

It is a bit conflicting when it says:

Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement, but still must be declared upon entry.

The form itself says nothing about bullion. I think there is no question about having to declare monetary coins of any country. (>$10,000) Whether the face value of the coins or the gold content value is reported on that form might be a arguable point that might require some legal defense.

 

[Fermion]

About 12 or 13 years ago I bought 8 Maple Leafs through my broker so there was no premium paid. I still have them and give one to each of my grandchildren at their first birthday. Mostly as a novelty but when they are adults hopefully they'll think fondly of their old pawpaw. If they haven't sold them....

I have some Maples also. Very pretty (very soft too, since they are pure gold!).

I like gold. I'd love to have more. I did keep the paperwork for cost basis since they have increased quite a bit in value.

 

[Car-Guy]

Questions related to this thread but I am not the OP:

My opinions below.

1. Assuming a PCGS graded $50 Buffalo 1oz gold proof coin, where/how is easiest to sell at or near PCGS price list price?

"Extremely" easy to sell most any coins at a coin show but good luck getting PCGS quoted prices... PCGS price lists are usually overvalued what you'll get dealer to pay... "Maybe" an individual would, but not a dealer. Get a copy of the latest Greysheet if you want more realistic pricing.

2. I suspect the coin may still be in OGP. Does PCGS remove it from OGP when grading? (Does it matter?)

Typically yes it's removed and no it doesn't matter to most collectors... What does matter if it's graded by PCGS or NGC and by CAC. (In other words, it should be graded by PCGS or NGC and with a CAC sticker.) Note, don't get regular issue bullion coins graded, it's a waste of time and money. Proofs, maybe...

3. For tax purposes, are they collectibles or not?

Proofs are collectables, IMO.

 

[Spock]

My gosh, you are all so knowledgeable it’s scary! I knew I’d get some good answers here.

My dad passed away in 2010. He had a trust so his assets were passed onto me. I’ll have to look at the details of the trust because I don’t know whether the coins were included in the trust. On a separate note, he also left me (well, my parents left me…it was passed on from my maternal grandfather) mineral rights on some land in Montana and I’m going to have to hire an attorney because I’m worried these rights may not have been included properly in the trust either. I think they were but I’ve gotten quite a few unsolicited offers to buy these rights and I need to make sure I have the proper paperwork together in case I ever decide to sell.

My safe deposit box is in TX so maybe I’ll look for a coin show down there and plan to head down one weekend. Goldline used to be willing to buy the coins back for a premium but I’m sure that premium would be big. I’m just excited that maybe these coins are actually worth something! Goldline had so many Consumer Reports issues that I thought maybe the coins were bogus.

If you want to move the whole pile vs. onesie-twosie at a coin show another option is Apmex in Oklahoma City. You can either ship (registered USPS, but they have an insured shipment program) to them or schedule a face-to-face appointment. I've only bought from them so I can't comment on the prices they offer... but the drive might be worth it to get everything done at once vs. vetting multiple buyers.

 

[Car-Guy]

They look like the ones in the picture, with a date stamp of 2008 if I remember correctly.

Dates on regular issue American Gold bullion coins from 1986 until now, don't matter. All the same value. There are a few ASE dates (America Silver Eagles) that do carry a premium over their bullion value.