- Joined
- Apr 14, 2006
- Messages
- 23,117
Even in NYC people will help you with directions. Heck, we would even carry you there -- if you would just get to the point and ask your question.
Travel in France---French Attitude?
- Thread starter RetireeRobert
- Start date
I have only been to France twice, most recently this pat summer (and only briefly at that). My experiences have always been pleasant.
When in Paris a number of years ago, it struck me that Frenchmen were very much like Americans -- a bit haughty and assuming that every other culture is in some perhaps immeasurable way a bit inferior. Not sure I agree with my perception even, but I think it explains the conflict between the two peoples -- i.e., we're attitudinally so much alike.
When in Paris a number of years ago, it struck me that Frenchmen were very much like Americans -- a bit haughty and assuming that every other culture is in some perhaps immeasurable way a bit inferior. Not sure I agree with my perception even, but I think it explains the conflict between the two peoples -- i.e., we're attitudinally so much alike.
ladelfina
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 2,713
and I am ignored at the local hardware store.
I think it is less the language one speaks than it is the Italians' imperfect ideas about marketing. They can seem either over-aggressive or practically lobotomized. It may also have to do with who is serving you; an owner or a member of their family will likely fall all over themselves (unless they are one of the children dragooned into the biz against their will, which I think is hardware-store-lady's problem).. while an employee gets paid no matter what (I don't think working on commission is all that widespread), so no skin off their nose if you walk out empty-handed.
I've only spent a few days in France, but I noticed a big-city/countryside rudeness difference others have mentioned; that's probably a factor everywhere. But my sister and I traveling together in Sicily did get a very chilly reception in Siracusa. I got the feeling they still keep the women there locked up, as I hardly saw any on the street (1990 or so).
And on my travels I've found the most arrogant/loud/clueless are frequently Germans.. but the American lady throwing dollar bills at a British bus driver and loudly demanding (like he was deaf or might not speak English) "do you take MONEY? You know.. MOONNNNEEEYYY?!?!?!?" took the cake. She gets my lifetime award so far.
The service that you usually receive in restaurants and stores in the U.S. is of a much higher quality than here in Canada. I believe that the reason for this might be that on the whole Americans are somewhat less tolerant of sloppy effort, are more tightly wound and demanding and will speak up when not pleased. Faced with poor service we Canadians will mostly not say anything, shrug off the poor service but still leave a tip and hope for better next time, or just simply not go back.
When DW and I were in the Dominican Republic, we were at a hotel that was according to staff about 20% Canadian, 50% U.S., and 30% asst. Europeans.
There was a line up at the tour desk and once my wife and I got to the front of the line the lady spoke with us for about 10 seconds and then said "you're Canadian aren't you". My response "Ummm, ya how do you know?" She said that she can usually tell just by the way that people approach her desk. Probably a little game she plays with herself. She said that the Americans tend to crowd the desk and are more intense and direct with what they want, and Canadians would stand a step back and were more at ease.
It makes sense that she would notice such a subtle difference since the people that we encountered in the DR were about as laid back as you can get without forgetting to breathe.
When DW and I were in the Dominican Republic, we were at a hotel that was according to staff about 20% Canadian, 50% U.S., and 30% asst. Europeans.
There was a line up at the tour desk and once my wife and I got to the front of the line the lady spoke with us for about 10 seconds and then said "you're Canadian aren't you". My response "Ummm, ya how do you know?" She said that she can usually tell just by the way that people approach her desk. Probably a little game she plays with herself. She said that the Americans tend to crowd the desk and are more intense and direct with what they want, and Canadians would stand a step back and were more at ease.
It makes sense that she would notice such a subtle difference since the people that we encountered in the DR were about as laid back as you can get without forgetting to breathe.
Lancelot
Full time employment: Posting here.
In most of asia leaving any space between one's self and the desk/counter is an open invitation for others to jump in front of you
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
In most of asia leaving any space between one's self and the desk/counter is an open invitation for others to jump in front of you
Same in Latin America. Get the hell to the front of the line, without looking directly at anyone or acting challenging is the play.
Con permiso,...butt...butt... butt.
Ha
ronin
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2003
- Messages
- 1,325
In Italy it's not a line so much as a rugby scrum.
mountaintosea
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2006
- Messages
- 564
I was there in 1993. I went to Paris and Nice and a few other places. It was part of a round the world trip I did for one year. Any way the French were lovely people. I had no problems with them, although I heard plenty otherwise (even from other Frenchmen). France is a great place. But when I travel I try to be humble. Unfortunately I ran into a lot of ugly americanos while traveling. It is embarrassing to say the least!
I was in paris on 9-11 and had nothing but good exp in that country. I am a bit miffed at the usa with us going into any country that the shrub things threatend my daddy.
We have an arrogant pres. and he is trying to govern by the bible. It does not work. We need a new path. One that trys to fix all the bad will that our current addmin. has done.
If it would not be away from family and I would have to sell everything I own, I would love to live in france. It is a wonderful country. and the health care is nationalized. Europe has grown up and we are still in the sand box.
We have an arrogant pres. and he is trying to govern by the bible. It does not work. We need a new path. One that trys to fix all the bad will that our current addmin. has done.
If it would not be away from family and I would have to sell everything I own, I would love to live in france. It is a wonderful country. and the health care is nationalized. Europe has grown up and we are still in the sand box.
RetireeRobert
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
move to france
Is that a left handed way of trying to say USA love it or leave it, I will buy your ticket out, or one of the other lines people say when you show any dissagrement with the polocys of this country?
If not sorry, but you should see that this country one that I love is going down a bad road.
We have a tendancy to name things like the patriot act as if it would be against the constitution to question it. and it is one of the single most civil liberty stripping devices that has ever been signed into law. Under the guise of fighting terror we are giving up our freedom with the catch fraze we need to protect our freedom while they are taking it away.
Those who think with their emotion or religion are more scary to me than people who fly into buildings. I personaly think that bush has done more to destroy this country than all the nine eleven hijackers combined.
This man with his bible in hand and brain in limbo has started a crusade and destroyed this countrys reputation across the world. he backed a tyrant in pakistan one that just killed his opisition, he has went back to the polocys of the seventys where we do evil to "prevent evil" When did we stop wearing white hats, when did we stop being the good guys. I think under nixion we lost much of our goodness.
Bush makes getting a BJ in the oval office look like an easter egg roll
Is that a left handed way of trying to say USA love it or leave it, I will buy your ticket out, or one of the other lines people say when you show any dissagrement with the polocys of this country?
If not sorry, but you should see that this country one that I love is going down a bad road.
We have a tendancy to name things like the patriot act as if it would be against the constitution to question it. and it is one of the single most civil liberty stripping devices that has ever been signed into law. Under the guise of fighting terror we are giving up our freedom with the catch fraze we need to protect our freedom while they are taking it away.
Those who think with their emotion or religion are more scary to me than people who fly into buildings. I personaly think that bush has done more to destroy this country than all the nine eleven hijackers combined.
This man with his bible in hand and brain in limbo has started a crusade and destroyed this countrys reputation across the world. he backed a tyrant in pakistan one that just killed his opisition, he has went back to the polocys of the seventys where we do evil to "prevent evil" When did we stop wearing white hats, when did we stop being the good guys. I think under nixion we lost much of our goodness.
Bush makes getting a BJ in the oval office look like an easter egg roll
RetireeRobert
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
?? It was a way of asking a question. That's all. You say you would dearly love to live in France. I wondered if there is not some way you could arrange to live there and have your family with you. The way you put your post made it sound like that was not even a possibility that had occurred to you.Lot's of things are possible when you put your mind to it, especially when it is something you dearly desire.
If you expected to talk politics, a thread on travel in France is not exactly the place to look, is it
?
ladelfina
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 2,713
Robert, it was you who started this post bringing up an entire country's "attitude".
Have you booked a flight to Paris? Are you planning a visit? You didn't say.
The "attitude" of a country is made up of the single "attitudes" of the people in it, as well as its official face. Your experience of those "attitudes" depends on who you run into. People across the pond may think Americans have an "attitude" and be either welcoming or defensive based on that.
Given your own "attitude" I would say book the flight and you might find out you are pleasantly surprised with your reception in France. I'll be looking forward to a trip report! You've already decided the image of the "American abroad" is "a lot of bunk". Go find out! .. but you will enjoy it more if you can leave preconceptions about both the French and the Americans at home. We're all just people and have a lot more in common than we do differences. If you go with the right "attitude" you will have a lot of fun and lots to laugh about over the antics of the French, the antics of the other tourists and the antics of the Americans.
Have you booked a flight to Paris? Are you planning a visit? You didn't say.
The "attitude" of a country is made up of the single "attitudes" of the people in it, as well as its official face. Your experience of those "attitudes" depends on who you run into. People across the pond may think Americans have an "attitude" and be either welcoming or defensive based on that.
Given your own "attitude" I would say book the flight and you might find out you are pleasantly surprised with your reception in France. I'll be looking forward to a trip report! You've already decided the image of the "American abroad" is "a lot of bunk". Go find out! .. but you will enjoy it more if you can leave preconceptions about both the French and the Americans at home. We're all just people and have a lot more in common than we do differences. If you go with the right "attitude" you will have a lot of fun and lots to laugh about over the antics of the French, the antics of the other tourists and the antics of the Americans.
RetireeRobert
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I originally started this thread when I saw info that France seemed to be rated number 1 in the world for national medical system, and as well as for consumer value of medical treatment.That spurred me to think "France may be the place to go for medical treatment." Unless, I thought, the old stereotype of the French having something of an "attitude" toward Americans was in fact still true.Not being in need of any medical treatment currently, no, I have not planned any visits to France.
ladelfina
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 2,713
When they talk about "#1 medical system" that's based on the aggregate anyway, of nationwide spending and nationalized care. [The popularity, problems and benefits of these systems compared with the US have been exhaustively gone into elsewhere and I do not want to further that discussion here.]
As for "consumer value" I know some people will go a long way for a bargain.. but do consider the expenses of a flight, to say nothing of other logistical complications if you are traveling while sick. French lessons would also come in handy, with a special focus on medical jargon. (I'd hate to be sick and not know what people were doing to me or why, and not be able to discuss options coherently.) If you have a procedure that requires any followup, you will have to pay for interim meals and lodging. Combined with the weak dollar the whole affair would be unlikely to be any great "deal".
If you want info on French health care and insurance, I found this, but cannot vouch for any of it:
Health Insurance in France & French Health Care by FrenchEntree.com
As for "consumer value" I know some people will go a long way for a bargain.. but do consider the expenses of a flight, to say nothing of other logistical complications if you are traveling while sick. French lessons would also come in handy, with a special focus on medical jargon. (I'd hate to be sick and not know what people were doing to me or why, and not be able to discuss options coherently.) If you have a procedure that requires any followup, you will have to pay for interim meals and lodging. Combined with the weak dollar the whole affair would be unlikely to be any great "deal".
If you want info on French health care and insurance, I found this, but cannot vouch for any of it:
Health Insurance in France & French Health Care by FrenchEntree.com
RetireeRobert
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
All very valid considerations.
It has intrigued me, however, reading about the "medical tourism" phenomena. First article I saw related about people going to Thailand for treatment and staying in "resort-like" facilities. And being very satisfied with the whole process, the care, the attention, not to mention saving a lot of dough.
Likely, this process would work best for someone who has an elective procedure to be performed. One where time is not the first consideration. Like maybe a hip-replacement.
The considerations you mention would indeed make me very wary. But it is interesting "medical tourism" does seem to be a growing business. I am wondering if "competition" in the practice of medicine is going to be driven increasingly by global outsourcing. Perhaps a topic for a whole separate thread.
The medical system in France is great if you're French, but it's certainly not the first place I'd think of going for medical tourism. I would think it would be rather expensive for a non-citizen there. I'd imagine the bargains are in places like Thailand, China, India, etc.
Well I just found this thread and since I came back from visiting the folks in Switzerland/France (where I grew up) for the holidays, I thought I would chime in.
I am fluent in French and I can tell you that the Parisians are not only rude to Americans, but they are rude to everyone (me included), so don't take it personally. But I must say I don't find them any ruder than say New Yorkers (I am fluent in English, so the language is not the problem there either). I often fly to Europe via NY and almost every time I am in NY for just a few hours I encounter a rude taxi driver, a rude airline employee, or a rude airport employee (No I don't exaggerate one bit). I got lost once at JFK and asked an airport employee for directions and he just looked at me said "get lost morron". As other pointed out before, get out of Paris, and you'll meet some really nice people.
On the other side I was once in Paris walking around and an American tourist came up to me for directions. He clearly thought I was Parisian, yet made no attempt to even speak French. He spoke directly in English, never said please or thank you, talked to me in a loud voice like I was stupid, never making eye contact with me... To tell you the truth, even though I was fluent in English, understood what he was asking and knew the answer to his question, during a few seconds I was tempted to pretend I just spoke French and couldn't help him. I felt like I was walking down the street and suddenly someone slapped me in the face. But, I ended up helping him anyways, though I was never thanked for it. I am not going to make a gross generalization about American tourists from that one experience, because I know many more Americans, including my wife, who are very well behaved tourists. But those are the people giving American tourists a bad reputation IMHO.
I am fluent in French and I can tell you that the Parisians are not only rude to Americans, but they are rude to everyone (me included), so don't take it personally. But I must say I don't find them any ruder than say New Yorkers (I am fluent in English, so the language is not the problem there either). I often fly to Europe via NY and almost every time I am in NY for just a few hours I encounter a rude taxi driver, a rude airline employee, or a rude airport employee (No I don't exaggerate one bit). I got lost once at JFK and asked an airport employee for directions and he just looked at me said "get lost morron". As other pointed out before, get out of Paris, and you'll meet some really nice people.
On the other side I was once in Paris walking around and an American tourist came up to me for directions. He clearly thought I was Parisian, yet made no attempt to even speak French. He spoke directly in English, never said please or thank you, talked to me in a loud voice like I was stupid, never making eye contact with me... To tell you the truth, even though I was fluent in English, understood what he was asking and knew the answer to his question, during a few seconds I was tempted to pretend I just spoke French and couldn't help him. I felt like I was walking down the street and suddenly someone slapped me in the face. But, I ended up helping him anyways, though I was never thanked for it. I am not going to make a gross generalization about American tourists from that one experience, because I know many more Americans, including my wife, who are very well behaved tourists. But those are the people giving American tourists a bad reputation IMHO.
I was at the service counter at a local shopping center the other day and a woman (not American, but not Estonian either) came right up, cut in line and demanded, in English, that they call her a taxi right away. She was claiming that the taxi's drivers sitting outside wouldn't take her to her destination (wherever that was.) I think her attitude was the problem.
Point is even non-native English speakers assume other people can/will speak English to them when in a foreign country.
Also, I've flown twice from JFK to Europe and found quite a few of the employees there to be quite nasty.
Point is even non-native English speakers assume other people can/will speak English to them when in a foreign country.
Also, I've flown twice from JFK to Europe and found quite a few of the employees there to be quite nasty.
And that maybe where the problem lies. If you are French (or German, or Italian...) for example, travelling to America, you are expected to speak English because otherwise nobody will understand you. But you are also expected to speak english even if you stay in your own country because anglophone tourists won't make the effort to learn your language. In both cases, much is demanded from the French, Germans, Italians to learn English and accomodate anglophone tourists wherever they are in the world. I think this is the kind of things that breeds resentment...
As far as medical care in France, I think it is great and that it has improved dramatically in the past few years.
Given the fact that I have the French citizenship through my mom (mom's family is French, Dad's is Swiss), I have the opportunity to reenter the national health system free of charge until next year. I was covered under that system while going to college in France 10-15 years ago, but I exited the system when I moved to America and have been covered only by private insurance companies ever since. But I am getting a bit uneasy about the private health insurance system here, and I am particularly worried about the possibility of being denied healthcare coverage due to pre-existing conditions. So I will probably choose to reenter the French national health system at the end of this year. It isn't cheap (premiums would be about 170 euros per month), but I feel like if suddenly I became uninsurable in America, at least I would have a place to go to to get great healthcare at a great cost. Plus they would also cover me while I am in the US for medical, dental and vision though only up to what it would cost for similar procedures in France. Since for now I have private healthcare insurance and intend to keep it for as long as they will keep me, that means that the French national health system would pay me back for any unreimbursed expenses such as copays and deductibles.
Given the fact that I have the French citizenship through my mom (mom's family is French, Dad's is Swiss), I have the opportunity to reenter the national health system free of charge until next year. I was covered under that system while going to college in France 10-15 years ago, but I exited the system when I moved to America and have been covered only by private insurance companies ever since. But I am getting a bit uneasy about the private health insurance system here, and I am particularly worried about the possibility of being denied healthcare coverage due to pre-existing conditions. So I will probably choose to reenter the French national health system at the end of this year. It isn't cheap (premiums would be about 170 euros per month), but I feel like if suddenly I became uninsurable in America, at least I would have a place to go to to get great healthcare at a great cost. Plus they would also cover me while I am in the US for medical, dental and vision though only up to what it would cost for similar procedures in France. Since for now I have private healthcare insurance and intend to keep it for as long as they will keep me, that means that the French national health system would pay me back for any unreimbursed expenses such as copays and deductibles.
Last edited:
saluki9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 2,032
Congratulations! You have just made the broadest statement ever in the history of the internet.
Sounds like you might need to travel a little more! In my travels I've only been robbed twice, and once was by one of those always friendly, happy go lucky Europeans.
Glad to know that we here in America invented violence
BTW: Anybody who thinks everybody in Europe is friendly hasn't visited Germany. That being said, the French have always been very nice in all the times and cities I have visited there.
georgeclairepiper
Confused about dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 8
Went to France several years back with my wife to visit my daughter who was doing some work there. i second what's been said about Paris. it was fast-paced like New York, except in New york at least we speak the language. Even the waiters at the cafes in Paris were short with us. You're in a service business! But then all three of us went to the southwest by train and visited some coastal towns. The attitude was entirely different. Nothing but nice!
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
ladelfina
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Messages
- 2,713
FI-EHRRDreamEHRRR.. you have ze Frainch citizenSHIP and ze Frainch acczont in your blood, n'est çe pas?
Seriously, that sounds like a good reckoning and you are lucky to have the alternative!! €170 now = ~ $250; I've never heard of a monthly comprehensive plan so cheap for a "regular person" in the US. I'd heard (3-4 years ago) that the Italian non-citizen temp. resident fee was on the order of €400 p.a... but I imagine France is more organized and professional and thus more costly than here.
IF you are an EU citizen, you would be eligible for, and should look into getting should you come over here, a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) that would also give you access to (some?/all?/aspects of?) other EU countries' systems should you be traveling w/in the EU. [Do check on particulars of this, which appear to be in flux.. I know little of it, not being an EU citizen but only able to access Italian health care through my marriage to an Italian citizen --if I were to travel to other EU countries, I would probably take out travel health ins. for myself.]
