Pirates

[ziggy29]

Why are cruise ships taking this route?

No clue here -- that region isn't exactly high on my "places to see before I die" list...

 

[NW-Bound]

National Geographic magazine had a great article on Malaysian pirates in October of 2007. Absolutely fascinating. Here's the link:

Malacca Strait Pirates - National Geographic Magazine

I suspect many of the same issues are at play in Somalia.

... I find it hard to believe Pirates can so easily capture a huge moving ship.

I always wondered the same, until I read the same article that Urchina referenced above. It all makes sense how their low tech invasion technique works!

 

[samclem]

Why are cruise ships taking this route?

Maybe it was some kind of ""Outward Bound" or a corproate teambuilding exercise?.
"Jim from Marketing says pirates are moving up fast on the port side!"
"Go see for yourself and tell me if you see anything. I don't trust anyone in Marketing."

Which brings to mind Monty Python's classic "Crimson Permanent Assurance" (pirate) bit!

 

[brewer12345]

US cruise ship outruns Somali pirates' guns - Yahoo! News

Pirates go after a cruise ship but are outrun.

Why are cruise ships taking this route?

Dunno if it is exactly a common route, but in order to avoit the Gulf of Aden you would have to round the southern tip of Africa rather than go through the Suez canal. The round-the-cape trip would make for a looonnnngggg cruise.

Bet they won't be taking any more cruise ships that way for a while, now.

 

[TromboneAl]

Why are cruise ships taking this route?

It' an adventure cruise.

 

[samclem]

Looks like Blackwater has been contacted be a few dozen shipping companies wanting to buy some security assistance. I don't know if the shipping companies will be willing to pay their price, but they'll probably get the job done if the deal is struck. They own the M/V McArthur (previously a NOAA vessel which Blackwater refitted for maritime security duties) and would use it for this mission.

Motor Vessel McArthurPicture 1 of 1

[Close]


"Company spokesmen said the dramatic increase of pirate attacks on merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden had led to parallel cost increases for the shipping industry, resulting in 10-fold insurance increases this year alone. They said that with the added danger pay offered to crews willing to make the journey, pirate ransom demands that reach into the millions, and lengthy negotiations for hijacked ships, if left unaddressed the cost of the piracy boom to the shipping industry -- and consumers buying their goods -- will only increase.
"Some shippers have taken the step of arming their crews, or hiring private security to ride on board cargo ships," the company said. "Rather than having armed guards on a cargo vessel, the McArthur´s ability to accompany a ship and deploy helicopters to patrol the area provides a safer option for the shipping industry."


Chinaco, that looks like one of your MH-6s in the photo (or some other Hughes 500 variant)

I do wonder if that big Old Glory flying on the mast of the McArthur obligates the USN to provide backup if the McArthur's crew bites off a little more than they can chew while protecting a ship from another country. Still, i don't think it will likely come to that. The McArthur can only be at one place at a time--there's lots of water out there and the pirates will be where she isn't.

 

[Westernskies]

Not kidding.

Thinking like yours led to the rise of the taliban and al quada.

Thinking like yours is exactly why the "taliban and al quada" are emboldened to attack US interests at will. What will it take for you to realize that these are offensive, not defensive organizations? How many more innocent people do they have to slaughter around the world for you to come to grips with the fact that ignoring the problem only makes it worse? How many more retarded suicide bombers, car bombs, roadside IED's subway bombs, planes flown into buildings, planes falling from the sky, hijackings, skyjackings, nightclub exposions, or other terrorist plots will it take for the message to get through? These are people whose stated purpose in life is to destroy all infidels and non-believers, (there are no innocents in their minds) and who have demonstrated through their repeated actions their willingness and eagerness to do so. Sorry to burst your idealistic bubble of pacifism, but time-outs and peace talks don't work for these folks, be it in the mountains of Afghanistan, the Gulf of Aden, a London Underground Station, or in a firefight in a Mumbai hotel lobby. They hate everything that is not in keeping with their warped principles of radical Islam- Christians, Jews, the West, Democracy, and Education, to name a few- and seek to destroy us, not to live alongside us in peace and harmony.

Thinking like yours is infinitely more dangerous than those who propose using our military resources to help defend democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and encourages those who would do us harm to escalate their actions, under their perceived belief that our response will be nothing more than hand-wringing.

 

[cantlogin]

...They hate everything that is not in keeping with their warped principles of radical Islam- Christians, Jews, the West, Democracy, and Education, to name a few- and seek to destroy us, not to live alongside us in peace and harmony...
quote]

I wonder how they got that way.

This is getting kind of soapboxy isn't it?

 

[HFWR]

This is getting kind of soapboxy isn't it?

I think I stepped in something...

I suppose that a coordinated military effort to protect international shipping lanes is a reasonable use of military power...

 

[travelover]

I think the larger issue is what happens when we start having more failed nations. IMO, this situation in Somalia is a peek at what is to come as a fallout of the growing financial crisis, global climate change and overall economic globalization.

I'm not convinced that in the long run, a strictly military solution is in order. People will do whatever they need to in order feed themselves and their families.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Good article in NY Times about piracy today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/opinion/05burgess.html

 

[samclem]

I wonder how they got that way.

Prophet motive?

 

[Westernskies]

Prophet motive?

 

[clifp]

Good article in NY Times about piracy today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/opinion/05burgess.html

Piracy is a crime against civilization makes sense to me. I imagine it is just urban folklore but don't ship captain have a lot of judicial power at high sea?

Have the world's Navy captains, mysteriously lose communications right after capturing pirates, conduct a trial, convict the pirates. Sadly I guess hanging is out of fashion but alternatively put the incarceration of the pirates up to competitive bid. I bet some place like one of the Stans, Vietnam, or Indonesia would be happy to make a small profit imprisoning pirates.

Once pirates realize they'll be rotting away in prison twenty years in one of those gardens spots, it would change behavior.

 

[clifp]

Please somebody tell me that because this an America crew this time that. We will deal with the pirates in a much more aggressive fashion.

What ever happened to millions for defense not once cent for tribute, which was the rallying cry when the US Navy was 3rd rate back in 1800..

 

[tuixiu]

They're holding the Captain hostage in a lifeboat right? What are the options here?

- his employer negotiates a ransom for his release
- attempt to free him and deal with captors

Is option #2 a reasonable military operation in the sea? I'd assume it would involve middle of night and a seal team, but it still sounds dangerous to the hostage.

 

[clifp]

They're holding the Captain hostage in a lifeboat right? What are the options here?

- his employer negotiates a ransom for his release
- attempt to free him and deal with captors

Is option #2 a reasonable military operation in the sea? I'd assume it would involve middle of night and a seal team, but it still sounds dangerous to the hostage.

Ok maybe I've been watching too much "24" and I am sure a rescue attempt would dangerous but. The Captain is only one guy, and the rational behind not negotiating with terrorist/pirates etc is that if we reward a behavior it only encourages more of it.

If, I was in charge, I'd tell the pirates. If the want to live release the hostage. I'd also steal a page from the Russian and Israelis play book, find out some of their names and threaten to kill their families.
Now I wouldn't actually kill families , but I am sure life is so cheap in that region that one could pay rival warlord to kill pirates and their families. In fact part of me hopes some shipping line CEO is sufficiently ruthless to figure out that it is cheaper to take out hit contracts to kill the pirates than to have pay ransom and higher insurance rates.

At some point countries need to fight back, this situation with only one innocent life at stake seems ideal. "Don't Tread on Me" is pretty good slogan.

 

[mickeyd]

My solution~ Hand Grenades and plenty of them, tossed over the side and into those Zodiacs. Err, maybe I spent too much time in the infantry...but I still like my simple idea.

 

[calmloki]

Think i heard the boat w/ pirates & captain/hostage is out of gas. Hard on the captain, but think waiting for a few days might improve negotiations. Shoot - maybe even provide water & rations after a while.

 

[freebird5825]

very good article here...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/10/world/africa/10pirates.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

 

[clifp]

Thanks for the link. I didn't realize it was only 4 pirates. At one point I heard 8-10.
Rescuing a hostage in this situation can't be that hard. Get a bunch of Marine snipers on the Bainbridge wait until night shot the pirates. Problem solved.

 

[samclem]

Piracy is a crime against civilization makes sense to me. I imagine it is just urban folklore but don't ship captain have a lot of judicial power at high sea?

Have the world's Navy captains, mysteriously lose communications right after capturing pirates, conduct a trial, convict the pirates. Sadly I guess hanging is out of fashion but alternatively put the incarceration of the pirates up to competitive bid. I bet some place like one of the Stans, Vietnam, or Indonesia would be happy to make a small profit imprisoning pirates.

Once pirates realize they'll be rotting away in prison twenty years in one of those gardens spots, it would change behavior.

I'm all for tough enforcement and defensive measures, I think they can work. But I don't think we should count on deterrence being very effective in this case. These Somalis are desperately poor, and a successful pirate operation promises money and status that cannot be obtained any other way in that country. They have very little to lose.

 

[Westernskies]

They have very little to lose.

The international community needs to send them a clear message that they have nothing to win.

 

[tuixiu]

I wonder if Navy could signal to the Captain their intentions for a rescue. Could Somalian pirates read morse code from a signal light?

Western - there is always something to win... it's too much ocean, too many potential target ships passing thru, too many poor people willing to roll the dice for a payout that seems large by our standards must be astronomical to them.

I'm completely against threatening their families or hire anyone to kill their families. That is no different than killing the family of someone who robs a grocery store. I'm no softie here if there is a way to kill these pirates, drown 'em, whatever fine but a family member who hasn't done anything makes no sense.

 

[Westernskies]

I wonder if Navy could signal to the Captain their intentions for a rescue. Could Somalian pirates read morse code from a signal light?

Western - there is always something to win... it's too much ocean, too many potential target ships passing thru, too many poor people willing to roll the dice for a payout that seems large by our standards must be astronomical to them.

I'm completely against threatening their families or hire anyone to kill their families. That is no different than killing the family of someone who robs a grocery store. I'm no softie here if there is a way to kill these pirates, drown 'em, whatever fine but a family member who hasn't done anything makes no sense.

I don't agree with threatening or harming their families, either. But, to use a little pirate terminolgy: "no quarter! hang the scurvy dogs from the yard arm.. send 'em to Davy Jones locker...aaarggh"