11 Years Later - Imminent Retirement and OMY Thoughts

[progmtl]

But in your particular case, with all things considered, it's easy to say, "go now"!

Thanks for the input and the push! I do think I'm getting very comfortable with the idea of leaving sooner rather than later.

 

[Diogenes]

The truth is that some of it is EGO.

Of course! It's all ego. Weightlifting at the gym? It's not for health or longevity. It's not to improve one's capacity to do farm-chores. It's strictly for ego. Can I bench press more than most college athletes? How do I look flexing in front of the mirror? Money, career, material possessions... it's all ego. Not "keeping up with the Joneses", but massaging one's own ego. One wishes to keep up with one's own impassioned belief for where one ought to be, for how high one ought to attain. What others think, is immaterial. What one personally thinks, of oneself... that's the ultimate aegis.

Retirement - early or otherwise - is a suppression of one's ego. Does one feel ready?

 

[progmtl]

Ego, huh.. Interesting. To me right now there is no greater expression of ego than saying, metaphorically:

"I don't need your money. I refuse to do any more corporate bullshit. I now own ALL of my time. I will live my life my way and I don't care what anyone thinks about it."

That sounds a lot better than being a corporate shill so I can look impressive to shallow people.

Just my two cents. I've never been wrapped up in my career as my identity. It has always been a means to an end.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

Ego, huh.. Interesting. To me right now there is no greater expression of ego than saying, metaphorically:

"I don't need your money. I refuse to do any more corporate bullshit. I now own ALL of my time. I will live my life my way and I don't care what anyone thinks about it."

That sounds a lot better than being a corporate shill so I can look impressive to shallow people.

Just my two cents. I've never been wrapped up in my career as my identity. It has always been a means to an end.

Maybe. But when you have more money than you know what to do with but hundreds or thousands of people doing your whim it's hard to give up the ego. Kinda heady to know you direct a lot of people. People stroking your ego. Look at anyone in power. Wonder why they do it and die working? Giving it up is not easy

 

[SecretlyFI]

My identity was also not tied at all to my career and I felt no ego boost from anything that occurred at w*rk, despite holding positions at a director level. I saw my career as a source of money and security for my family. A means to an end, as mentioned above. I hated having direct reports and being a manager. The last 5 years I had no direct reports and was in a special projects role which was so much better. Still, it was extremely easy to walk away earlier this year. Years of planning came to fruition, everything aligned and I'm happy to be retired at 57 with no second thoughts or regrets. It's very heady knowing I have complete freedom now!

 

[progmtl]

Maybe. But when you have more money than you know what to do with but hundreds or thousands of people doing your whim it's hard to give up the ego. Kinda heady to know you direct a lot of people. People stroking your ego. Look at anyone in power. Wonder why they do it and die working? Giving it up is not easy

Well I never have and never will be in such a position. And I really don't want to be. I guess the "type A" personalities might get off on that - and we certainly have a bunch of billionaires in the world who are still "working" (in a sense) and maybe enjoying that power. But it's not for me.

I don't want the spotlight and I'm happy to do my own thing in obscurity.

 

[progmtl]

My identity was also not tied at all to my career and I felt no ego boost from anything that occurred at w*rk, despite holding positions at a director level. I saw my career as a source of money and security for my family. A means to an end, as mentioned above. I hated having direct reports and being a manager. The last 5 years I had no direct reports and was in a special projects role which was so much better. Still, it was extremely easy to walk away earlier this year. Years of planning came to fruition, everything aligned and I'm happy to be retired at 57 with no second thoughts or regrets. It's very heady knowing I have complete freedom now!

This is great, you got one step ahead of me on the career ladder! And yes, having direct reports and managing people is tough - that has been part of my difficulty lately. And the big tech industry is pretty brutal - routine layoffs, big rewards for a small percentage and a whole lot of nothing for most. A new hire asked me if we do cost of living increases and I almost started laughing (sadly). This ain't a union job.

Glad to hear that you made your way out and it sounds like you are happy! You're another recent ER person - love to hear about your exits and your experiences since retiring.

 

[CoAndy]

Sounds like you are set financially and the job is hurting you physically(mentally) so i don't see a reason to work past February.

Thanks @aaronc879 and @zangbao . One side of me says it's only an additional 9 months of work - and you get $65k in stock plus a bit more savings in the meantime. But the other side says I don't need it and it won't really change anything about my retirement.

But really, I think mental health (which yes, does affect my physical health) needs to win here. I've always been the guy who stoically sticks it out and powers through the obstacles. But I'm tired of all that - at least in the career sense. Math says I've "won the game" so I think it's time to stop playing. I am very aware of the non-financial hurdles of retirement and that will be the next challenge. Finding meaning, keeping some semblance of structure perhaps. But I have been working non-stop for a very long time (since 1996) with only 3-4 weeks vacation per year and I am just done.

Also, one other thing I should note is that my career does not offer the glide-path to retirement (like perhaps the legal or medical profession might?). Like, work part time or do some consulting with my company. I'm in the cloud computing space with one of the major players and it is all-in, or all-out. There are no part time workers. There are no consultants. The culture is intense.

Op do you have a bunch of PTO or vacation leave accrued that you can take?

 

[progmtl]

Op do you have a bunch of PTO or vacation leave accrued that you can take?

Nope. Another "fun" thing that big tech does is give you "unlimited" vacation!! Amazing, right? Except what it really means is that you get about 4 weeks, give or take, per your manager's approval, but there is no accrual on the books. Meaning there is no liability for the company - they don't have to pony up any money if you leave the company. Neat trick, right?

 

[Diogenes]

Well I never have and never will be in such a position. And I really don't want to be. I guess the "type A" personalities might get off on that - and we certainly have a bunch of billionaires in the world who are still "working" (in a sense) and maybe enjoying that power. But it's not for me.

Ego manifests itself in passel of ways. For some, it's getting more money and flaunting it via more stuff. For others, it's still getting more money, but keeping spending modest and watching the dollar-figure rise in their brokerage account, without telling anyone. For still others, it's the power trip... where to your point, "working" for the most senior/successful people is a kind of play, where the person gives speeches, manipulates this-and-that, gives directives and jets around the world in luxury. It's not surprising that the superstar CEOs or politicians never retire! Their jobs are easy, their daily activities are essentially entertaining (to them), and the ego commands that they remain working.

To your other point, there's a manifestation of ego, in asserting that I don't need this job, I don't need this paycheck, I'm independently wealthy etc. I struggle with the "ego of parsimony"... financially independent on paper or not, I feel humbled by the vagaries of the markets and the economy, and feel reliance on a W2 even if the portfolio does well... to feed the ego of, well, having more and more money.

There's yet another flavor of ego. The priest, the teacher, the guidance counselor... not remunerative professions at all... but a sense that, well, the world needs me, the kids need me, the parish needs me, the community needs me, so I gotta keep working and working, because if I retire, the world would be less enlightened or less at peace etc. This "ego of humility", if you like, is perhaps the hardest to shed of all.

 

[progmtl]

Ego manifests itself in passel of ways.

I'm enjoying this conversation. I have read your posts in other threads and I know you are an elegant communicator. I agree with your comments about the CEOs and captains of industry and how maybe for them it's difficult to give that up. Like I said, type A personalities and people who like "power". I couldn't care less about that crap, myself.

To your other point, there's a manifestation of ego, in asserting that I don't need this job, I don't need this paycheck, I'm independently wealthy etc.

To your point about ego being a part of everything, perhaps this statement applies to me. I wouldn't use the term "independently wealthy" to describe myself, but it is very true that I am PROUD of where I am financially, and how I built it all up from nothing. So perhaps that is a manifestation of my ego.

I struggle with the "ego of parsimony"... financially independent on paper or not, I feel humbled by the vagaries of the markets and the economy, and feel reliance on a W2 even if the portfolio does well... to feed the ego of, well, having more and more money.

So it sounds like this is one of your challenges. To remedy this, I recommend just trusting the math! I haven't read dozens of books on investing and early retirement, but I've read a few seminal works. "A Random Walk Down Wall Street", "The Four Pillars Of Investing", even "The Coffeehouse Investor" which was a great primer aimed at the layperson. Realize that the 4% "rule" (of thumb) is inherently conservative. It's meant to survive major crises. We all know about SORR - sequence of returns risk. If you don't hit that early in your retirement then you are, more or less, golden with a 4% withdrawal rate or less.

If you are hanging on to work despite being comfortably FI, then I suggest that your job isn't all that toxic. If you were suffering you'd be thinking twice about staying on! Nothing wrong with working longer if it is not degrading your life too much.

There's yet another flavor of ego. The priest, the teacher, the guidance counselor... not remunerative professions at all... but a sense that, well, the world needs me, the kids need me, the parish needs me, the community needs me, so I gotta keep working and working, because if I retire, the world would be less enlightened or less at peace etc. This "ego of humility", if you like, is perhaps the hardest to shed of all.

For these examples, you are talking about professions that are avocations for some people. One of the challenges of retiring (and especially retiring early) is figuring out how to meaningfully spend your time. And people might look to religion, teaching, or mentoring as ways of bringing meaning into their lives. You have just pointed out professions that are already aligned with those areas, so it is not that surprising that those people are less likely to retire early. They have a profession that gives them purpose and meaning.

 

[audreyh1]

Nope. Another "fun" thing that big tech does is give you "unlimited" vacation!! Amazing, right? Except what it really means is that you get about 4 weeks, give or take, per your manager's approval, but there is no accrual on the books. Meaning there is no liability for the company - they don't have to pony up any money if you leave the company. Neat trick, right?

Wow, that’s a huge change. I worked in tech. I had over accrued and had to take a week off before retiring, otherwise I would have lost it. I got paid a lump sum for the other unused vacation.

 

[GoodLife59]

A recent "One More Year" (OMY) thread had me thinking about my current situation. I've been meaning to post since I am nearing ER and I value the inputs on this forum.

I took a look at my posting history and realized that I only ever posted in 2014 (!!). Here is my intro thread: 40yo, Still Grinding Away, Future Has Promise

I've been lurking for a LONG time. So I guess I'll give an account of what happened since 2014 and where I am now.

In short, little naive me in 2014 had no idea of the crapstorm that awaited me.. 2015 divorce! Wife had been cheating and life turned upside down. At the time of divorce we split assets and I walked away with no house and about $1m in investments. My daughter was 8 and I became a single dad 50% of the time. Needless to say this was a time of shock, anger, grief, and just trying to cope while reinventing my life. I rented for 2 years and then bought a modest home in my same town, keeping my daughter in the same school district (as was stipulated in the divorce).

I won't go on too much about the personal stuff. Life goes on, you heal, you try new things. Eventually I met my current wife in 2019 and we got married in 2022. I also added an addition onto my house and now it is extremely suitable for our needs - I love it! My daughter is now off to college and I have an adult stepson.

--- Financial/ER Stuff ---

I am now 51. I've been working in IT for nearly 30 years. My post in 2014 mentioned how burnt out I was. Yup, I have persevered another 11 years in this career and the burnout level is getting critical! The good news is that after subtracting what I will owe for my daughter's college expenses, I will have a little over $4m invested. My (second) wife has her own assets, approaching $1m. We handle our money separately. I pay 95% of the household expenses and she pays for some of her own things (car/phone/clothing). This arrangement works for us and we plan to continue this even when I am retired.

So I have $4m. Only debt is about $200k in mortgage debt at 2.875% interest ($988 monthly payment) so I will just pay monthly and keep this debt. I can earn 3.5% - 4.25% in CDs and online savings accounts.

My plan is to have about $100k annually to spend in retirement. I think my current spend rate is actually a little bit less than that. And there is some fluff in it. I'm thinking I could manage my taxes such that I need about $130k (or at most $140k) gross income to achieve $100k net income. About 70% of my assets are in taxable brokerage/savings accounts. I would plan to live off those assets until age 59.5 and then start pulling from my 401k (has about $1.1m now) and filling up the lower tax brackets. I may delay taking SS past age 62 while pulling from the 401k to be tax efficient and increase my SS payments.

The biggest risk/unknown is health insurance. My wife works full time making about $120k (and building her own wealth rapidly since I cover most of our expenses). She plans to continue working for at least 8+ years, according to her. So we can get health insurance through her employer at a reasonable cost. I am aware that my retirement might at some point trigger her to want to retire, and then we will both need to rethink health insurance costs. But I think we could still manage it. Also, she is able to get health insurance (at a bit higher cost) if she switched to working part time in her job - so that is another option for her/us.

Firecalc gives us 100% success rate. I have about 80% in stocks and will likely pare that down only a little as I raise more cash for retirement risks (market crash). I held through the 1999/2000 and 2008/2009 downturns. It will be scarier if it happens when I'm retired, but I am confident that I will switch to consuming my cash and stay the course.

Right now I'm debating between giving notice in Jan 2026 and retiring in Feb. Or waiting until Nov 2026 which would allow me to vest some stock (currently worth about $65k) plus everything I save between now and then. But I am finding the job to be really stressful and I think I want out - for my mental health - ASAP. Which would be Feb 2026. So there's the OMY aspect of this post. But I think I am at least 80% leaning towards getting out in Feb.

This is really long so I'll stop here for now.

You have more than enough saved to quit. I’d go for it now. You may find you become highly valued and they make sweet offers to convince you to stay. How are your assets organized? Tax deferred? Taxable? ROTH IRA’s?The reason I ask is my wife and I are facing some RMD challenges in about 10 years. So we’re meeting with a fee only fin/tax consultant to give us an analysis and recommendations on how to navigate to, and thru that phase.

 

[Amy T]

I went with a health sharing community for my health insurance. Zion Health Share. I like that it is global coverage. It is a bit different so read all the fine print. I am healthy and haven't had to really use it. But I am happy with it.

 

[Rambler]

I’m late to the party, but I do want to ask a question: are you able to pare after tax expenses back to, say $60k, if the market were to take a 50% haircut AND your wife either had just retired or lost her job? I retired at 51, 64 now, and I remember oh so harshly thinking I might have to try to get work at Lowe’s or Home Depot during the pandemic just in case. I did have a much bigger portfolio, but I shudder when I remember day after day of losing $100k, $200k, and even $300-$350k in market value. I joined this community in 2007, and I lurk from time to time but don’t post much anymore. I just wanted to give you that one little thing to think about. If you can wrap your head around a contingency like that and still make it work, I think you’re good to go. I just offer that up because I do think a market correction is in our future. How big? How long? I don’t know. But sequence of withdrawals is a concern when a correction occurs, and those who can pare their expenses have more chance of long term success. I remember one guy who had a lot of his assets tied up in one company, retired, and then lost 90ish percent when the Great Recession hit, because he was heavy in one bank stock that was hit hard. Best of luck to you.

 

[Ben]

Hey OP! Sounds like you're killing it financially, and have made a great recovery even after a major life disruption like divorce...my hat's off to you!

I'm also trying to decide when to pull the ER trigger, because the nature of my w*rk is also "all-in or all-out." You could turn into a game, getting through the last 11 months. When I was deployed, I kept a "wheel of death" which is basically a counter I built that updated me daily on the number of days remaining until I got to return home. It's a small thing, but had a big impact. You've already won the game in the sense that, if it gets really bad, you could walk away tomorrow.

I think there's also something to be said about leaving on top of your game and before the burnout manifests itself in job performance or "quiet quitting." IMHO there is no reason to burn your reputation on the way out by letting burnout take control...only you can decide when that point comes, but maybe something to consider. Leaving before this point, keeps your reputation intact and provides a way back in case you ever need to rely on your skills/reputation to return to work in the future because your finances went sideways unexpectedly.

The last point is regarding planning. Most folks on here are wizards in this area I suspect, so at the risk of preaching to the choir, I have found a combination of Boldin (for long-term planning, running scenarios, Roth conversion timing, etc.) and YNAB (because I'm a control freak when it comes to budgeting), work extremely well. I'm not selling anything here, and have no vested interest, but just passing along from one burnout to another.

I hope you get some peace about your decision one way or another and wish you the best. To the point some others have made here (now I'm preaching to MYSELF), none of us can get time back...so something for us both to consider as we navigate the decision to ER.

 

[brett]

Perhaps I am a contrarian but I never found this retire early decision such a difficult one.

For me, the first was the financial aspect. Numbers are black and red. Not really difficult. Do I have enough cash flow to support my lifestyle. If there are golden handcuffs or salient pension income dates get a clear understanding of them. Made certain that our respective forward tax planning was managed.

The next was job. Like, dislike, causing angst? I was fortunate. My financials were ready several years earlier than I was ‘ready’
My IT job was stressful, with lots of travel, but I loved it. Had the opposite been true my date would have corresponded with my earliest financial readiness date. You cannot buy time with good health and happiness.

After that..what next. We had a one year plan. No real plan after that until we fully understood the lifestyle and travel possibilities. What was my spouses view on our year one go forward plan?


When I was ready.. I was ready. Certainly I could have continued for a few more years and accumulated more monies. But to what end?

For us is was financial readiness (not greed or striving to have a higher net worth), happiness, and overall health and well being.

Never sweated over the decision to retire early for even 10 minutes. It became a very straightforward decision once the components were broken down. My spouse did not work. She was more concerned than me. She viewed me as a bit of a workaholic.

I walked away and never looked back. It was easy. Besides, we were far too busy looking forward.

 

[brett]

I know two OMYers...former colleagues One died of a heart attach 12 months after retirming at 65. He had the financials to reitire at 56. Never got to take his kids and grandchildren on that cruise he often talked about. He was afraid to miss out on his employment income. Somehow he felt that it was easy money. Not so easy in the end.

Another one retired at 65. Ten years later he is still a miserly so and so. Does his net worth every week and brags about it us as though it is an olympic sport. No one rcares other than him. Sad.

That is all he seems to have to talk about. Pity his spouse. Just imagine working for 45 years, being financially independent for at least 10/12 years leading up to retirment and still having the principal focus counting your pennies with a view to increasing net worth every month, every quarter, every year.

Those two really taught me something about taking, and enjoying, early retirment.

 

[progmtl]

You have more than enough saved to quit. I’d go for it now. You may find you become highly valued and they make sweet offers to convince you to stay. How are your assets organized? Tax deferred? Taxable? ROTH IRA’s?

I'm just noticing some replies to this thread, so sorry for the late replies! Thanks for the support. I have decided that Jan 6, when my manager is back in the office, I will tender my resignation (with target retirement date of Jan 30).

Thankfully, about $3m of my $4m nest egg is in taxable/accessible accounts (brokerage, savings, CDs, plus a small amount in a Roth IRA). So my plan is to use those funds, at least until I turn 59.5. Then I will consider pulling from the $1.1m in my 401k. Of course I will keep my taxable income as low as I can and it will depend on whether my wife is still working. But I suspect she will be retired or part time by then, allowing my to pull money from the 401k and reduce the impact of later RMDs.

 

[progmtl]

I went with a health sharing community for my health insurance. Zion Health Share. I like that it is global coverage. It is a bit different so read all the fine print. I am healthy and haven't had to really use it. But I am happy with it.

Thanks for this info. If I am in a situation where my wife's employment (or lack thereof) is no longer providing health insurance, I will definitely consider all options.

 

[progmtl]

I’m late to the party, but I do want to ask a question: are you able to pare after tax expenses back to, say $60k, if the market were to take a 50% haircut AND your wife either had just retired or lost her job? I retired at 51, 64 now, and I remember oh so harshly thinking I might have to try to get work at Lowe’s or Home Depot during the pandemic just in case. I did have a much bigger portfolio, but I shudder when I remember day after day of losing $100k, $200k, and even $300-$350k in market value.

$60k would be tough, given that I still have a (small) mortgage payment, plus property taxes, insurance, etc. That adds up to $20k by itself. But I don't expect to have to do that. I have enough cash to live for at least 5 years (along with ongoing dividend payments) without cutting the budget at all.

I remember seeing my assets drop during the 2000 tech crash (even though they weren't that large at the time), and then during 2008/2009 (losing about 35% overall in my portfolio). I also have been thinking we are due for a drop. That's why I have been building a large cash cushion.

I think it would take a second great depression type of event to really shake the foundation of my retirement planning. And if it happens, I'll adjust as I have to (find work, cut budget, whatever). But I take solace in the fact that most retirement planning, including the 4% rule of thumb, is conservative. And I am already being more conservative than that. If I wanted to insure against all possible outcomes I could never retire.

 

[progmtl]

I think there's also something to be said about leaving on top of your game and before the burnout manifests itself in job performance or "quiet quitting." IMHO there is no reason to burn your reputation on the way out by letting burnout take control...only you can decide when that point comes, but maybe something to consider. Leaving before this point, keeps your reputation intact and provides a way back in case you ever need to rely on your skills/reputation to return to work in the future because your finances went sideways unexpectedly.

Thanks so much for your post Ben! I wanted to quote the whole thing in my reply but it seemed excessive to do so.

I quoted this section because I strongly agree about going out on a high/responsible note. To be honest I am dreading going back to work on Monday Jan 5. But it will only be 4 more weeks. I will give my manager and my team whatever I can during that timeframe. Then I can walk away feeling honorable and not burning any bridges.

I also very much agree about the importance of time. I'm getting close to age 52 and if I want to do all these projects and interests that I have in mind I will eventually run out of energy or health to do them!

I wish you all the best in navigating your own burnout and finding your exit at the appropriate intersection between financial stability and mental health.

 

[progmtl]

When I was ready.. I was ready. Certainly I could have continued for a few more years and accumulated more monies. But to what end?

This is my mindset right now. Based on my priorities in life, more accumulation is pretty much irrelevant. The math looks safe. If it turns out not to be safe, then crap we are all in some trouble. But otherwise it is not going to change my life materially to work 1-2-3 more years. And I doubt it will make me happier (certainly in the short term it will make me miserable!)

 

[progmtl]

I know two OMYers...former colleagues One died of a heart attach 12 months after retirming at 65. He had the financials to reitire at 56. Never got to take his kids and grandchildren on that cruise he often talked about. He was afraid to miss out on his employment income. Somehow he felt that it was easy money. Not so easy in the end.

Another one retired at 65. Ten years later he is still a miserly so and so. Does his net worth every week and brags about it us as though it is an olympic sport. No one rcares other than him. Sad.

Yeah I don't want to be one of those statistics! I am pushing myself already during this final month of work to build healthier habits around exercise, etc. I want to enter retirement with positive momentum. I want to build muscle, lose fat, gain energy, sleep better, and start to entertain the many hobbies/passions/interests that are bouncing around in my mind. And I need to become someone who makes these 30 years of grinding worthwhile - it eventually gave me the freedom to become a better actualized person.

 

[Koolau]

Congratulations on making your decision. Keep us posted on the actual retirement date. Sounds like you have things planned out well. All the best to you.