43, FI, inheritance, psychology

So after all life and society has given you, you want to retire? Assuming you are a doctor then you have only been working for 10-15 years. You inherit all this money and want to do what good with it? Retire?

And why not? Life has given him the chance to do what he wants, to live as he pleases, to spend time with his family, etc. rather than working. Plenty of people on this forum (including some other physicians) have done that and no one gave them any grief about it.

After all, this is an early retirement forum.

I think it's great that he's considering the effect of his retirement on the patients and wants to take steps to assure that they get good care afterward. So many others would simply give a minimum time notice and bail.
 
Now I feel I'm too young to retire but also don't want to work so much.
Part of my ambivalence is about honoring my parents, not just my patients. . .
Before the inheritance I had a plan to cut back in the next few years anyway, to 0.8 FTE. I had planned to give 2 years' notice.

Now, I have other options but the suddenness of the inheritance has me verklempt.
I am not looking to retire completely but my days are long and I would like to work fewer of them. I currently work 200 days per year and would like to work 100-150.

Give yourself time to grieve the loss of your parents, which includes taking some time for yourself to deal with your loss and figure out your future path. Your posts indicate a sense of responsibility to your patients, parents and family plus a desire to cut back on working hours. You have the financial means to do whatever you wish but it sounds like you have a strong work ethic and sense of responsibility. It is OK to cut back and find the right balance that allows you more personal time and time with family while also contributing to your chosen field of work.
 
I'm going to give my opinion, as someone who was and still is impossible to replace. I inherited about $1M+ in 2010. Added that to my portfolio and could have squeaked into ER somewhat frugally then. By 2014 I had enough of being chronically overworked and burned out. I gave my notice, and a week before I was set to be done, there was an emergency situation at another hospital staffed by our group and I filled in (it was much easier and way more interesting). The group hired about 5-6 independent contracting physicians to do my job and also had a nurse practitioner fill in once a week (she still does this work). I was hired back on an hourly basis since they never hired anyone to do the job itself, but there were more and more holes in the schedule and I was nearly full time, with more pay but less benefits the last couple of months I worked in 2016. So I gave final notice last April and finished at the end of July. That nearly two year time frame of part time work, taking off and traveling when I wanted to, putting more time into my home and my own health, was a great transition period.

If you enjoy some of your work, but don't want to do so much of it, get out of the directorship, and cut back clinical hours. Depending on your specialty, you may still have long days, or maybe your days will be shorter. Certainly you should work fewer of them. You will continue to feel useful and valuable, and you will have increased time to remember how to live the rest of your life. Think and remember the things you enjoyed doing and think of the things you would like to start doing.

In general, 6 months notice should be enough time. However, there are physician shortages in many parts of the country, and just recruiting a good candidate may take a long period of time. So if you think 2 years notice is helpful, for your organization, then go ahead and do it. Once you have decided to cut back, give a long notice time, as long as you can. Medicine is not like working for a big corporation. They will not kick you out. They will keep trying to drag you back in!

When I first stopped working full time, it was abrupt. I felt rather sad for awhile. I kept thinking I should have had "x" kind of career, but instead I had "y" kind of career. But that quickly eased. But since I ended up continuing to do some work training others, and very part time, easing into ER was so much easier. You are wise to consider the part time path. And I would cut back to half time. Don't just cut to 0.8 FTE. I tried to cut back to 0.8 FTE in 2013, but since my days were 12 hours long, I worked 48 hours instead of 60 hours per week. It was still too much work.

From a fellow physician, 10+ years older than you: remember: time>money. You can't buy more time to live your life. You don't owe medicine any more time than you want to give it. There is no debt to society that you personally have to pay with your time and your life.

One other thing, see a good estate planning attorney regarding the inheritance. As a physician, you are more vulnerable than many to lawsuits, and you want to protect your estate and structure it in a way for asset protection and estate planning. It is money well worth spending.
 
remember: time>money. You can't buy more time to live your life. You don't owe medicine any more time than you want to give it. There is no debt to society that you personally have to pay with your time and your life.


+1. Well said!

OP: Ignore that huge lecture from blueskies123....was rude and way out of context. Spend inheritance for family time and kids' future....will make your parents happy where ever they are! They worked hard to see you happy and thats the only thing which matters!
 
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Your feedback, suggestions, thoughts, experiences would be appreciated. Note I would not take any imminent action. I would defer any decisions for a year at least.

Not for me to give advice. Everyone is different, and we all try to find our happiness in our own way.

With little more than minimal means to retire at age 53, some 28 years ago, our retirement was based on hope, and the excitement of being able to explore life on our own terms. While going to live in a 55+ community provided a happy base for life, a big part or the satisfaction came from giving back. The social part came from working to keep activities busy.... planning parties, emceeing events, running a computer class and a community website. Some time on the side to help with local Boy Scouts, and teaching a small business class for the local SBA.

Like you, an educational background major in psych (no graduate degree), with a learned interest in helping others. Perhaps the greatest joy was in helping... counseling others who had problems in retirement , with family deaths, financial hardships, and those situations when a friend was needed.

Ya know, I don't think anyone can say what to do. It's a built-in factor. Nothing wrong with enjoying life, and... really... no obligation to anyone to follow one path or another. People who give of themselves to others don't do it as a matter of conscience, but because it's built in.

Happiness come from doing what feels good... inside and out. :flowers:
 
Hello everyone,

I am back with an update and seeking more advice.

TL:DR : life always throws curveballs.

Shortly after this thread, I was offered a senior director position for the organization and I took it. It meant doing less clinical work, with more of a strategic role but no direct managerial responsibilities. It sounded fun and has been, and I have learned and grown a lot.

But with the pandemic and general physician shortages, I am basically back to doing nearly as much clinical work as ever, plus the senior role, plus my local director role. I still love my work, I’m not burned out, but I am tired. I am starting to feel a little older. Over 50 years old now. I’m still physically very active and AFAIK healthy.

My salary hasn’t gone up much especially considering inflation. Our net worth including the inheritance is about $13 million, but our spending is up to about $250k per year (some inflation, some is due to having 2 teens in club sports, and some is just loosening the reins).

I still feel responsible to my community, patients, departments, staff, colleagues, deceased parents, ancestors, wife, children. I fulfill this perceived moral duty through service. I have hobbies but not hobbies that would occupy 40 hours per week on a regular basis. Long trips and so forth aren’t feasible until kids graduate from high school in 4 years.

I think switching to a shift-type role like 1 week a month of hospital work is going to have to be my pathway out. That keeps me working and gives me lots of free time. It still means closing my clinic practice and that is gut-wrenching to consider but as someone wrote earlier, that’s going to be true in 10 or 20 years as well.

I am now seeing a therapist because I think without this I could churn in place indefinitely.

If you have any further suggestions, my thanks in advance.
 
The unfortunate reality is, as long as you keep giving, they'll keep taking. You are FI so you are in the driver's seat. You need assert yourself and set some boundaries on how much of your life you're willing to give. Beyond that, let the chips fall where they may. Time to look out for number one. While it's admirable that you're compassionate, at the same time, you're not your brother's keeper.
 
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Being tired is part of burn-out.
Seeing a therapist will help you learn to let go. You are in control of that, no one else. And you are not responsible for everything you have put on your own shoulders.

Life will go on and your clinic/patients will also, whether you are there or not.
Time for you to figure out what you want in life now and in the future.

You can go on long vacations, just do it in the summer when your kids are out of school.
Maybe cut out some of the senior/directorship jobs and see patients part time. Or stop cold turkey.
It's up to you. Are the responsibilities that you take on more important than your family, your health, or your time left on Earth?

Take care and go enjoy Life!
There is much to do, see, and be thankful for.
 
Obviously at 13m with 250k spending, you are good financially for the rest of your life. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself as to what you think you might owe the community. In the Corporate culture, everyone is replaceable and easier than they imagine. However it appears that doctors sometimes have a harder time with retiring.
As PB states, it might be time to think about yourself some more. Good health can be a tricky thing as you know.
 
Shortly after this thread, I was offered a senior director position for the organization and I took it. ....Over 50 years old now. I’m still physically very active and AFAIK healthy.

My salary hasn’t gone up much especially considering inflation. ...

I still feel responsible ...
Brain, your saga applies, in generalities, to many of us:

* Hit a major financial milestone in early or mid 40s. Ambivalent about working, but through confluence of factors, chose to persevere.

* Now in early 50s, reassessing. Portfolio has done very well, but career growth (salary, prestige, influence) maybe hasn't.

* Having finally reached the downslope of middle-age, one feels more of a cosmic-imperative to ask the blue-sky questions, the "what's it all about" and how one fits-in, at least career-wise.

In your case, there's the pacing issue of kids growing up and heading to college. Perhaps this pacing issue could be turned into a criterion for retirement, or at least, for going to part-time? How many years, until both kids are out of the house? If it's only 2-3 more years, then perhaps there is merit in persevering with one's current role, and then bestowing release on oneself, to move-on?
 
Might sound harsh, but it’s all just excuses to not retire at this point.

As I glanced thru your thread I was going to say set some deadlines. First at 45 and then at 50. I don’t think you’ve thought enough about what you want to do in retirement.

Remember this, the easiest thing to do is to stay on the hamster wheel. It takes effort, bravery and determination to change our lives to not work. I’m not there either…but kids leaving the nest will be our main milestone.
 
Remember this, the easiest thing to do is to stay on the hamster wheel. It takes effort, bravery and determination to change our lives to not work. I’m not there either…but kids leaving the nest will be our main milestone.
Much as I applaud anyone (within reason) getting off of the hamster wheel, it takes more than bravery. It takes a deep conviction that one is doing the right thing... that one's efforts as an employee have reached a proper conclusion, so that going-forward, it would be more honorable and productive, to cede one's place to somebody else, while one continues in some other avocation, elsewhere. Sure, FI is necessary to do this. But it's not sufficient. Necessary, but not sufficient. Sufficiency comes some some inner-voice, an inner-guidance, that's hard to pin down.
 
Much as I applaud anyone (within reason) getting off of the hamster wheel, it takes more than bravery. It takes a deep conviction that one is doing the right thing... that one's efforts as an employee have reached a proper conclusion, so that going-forward, it would be more honorable and productive, to cede one's place to somebody else, while one continues in some other avocation, elsewhere. Sure, FI is necessary to do this. But it's not sufficient. Necessary, but not sufficient. Sufficiency comes some some inner-voice, an inner-guidance, that's hard to pin down.
Hear you, but I think you’re over emphasizing the importance of work to self in most corporate/for profit environments. We are just a cog, and a very replaceable cog. It’s easy to over exaggerate how important you/we are in a corp with billions in revenue and hundreds of millions in profit.

My points do not apply to vocations which directly help people. Doctors, nurses, teachers, etc etc. There is much higher intrinsic value to these non corp vocations.
 
brainsqueez: Let it go my friend. You get one life to live and we all have finite time so take some chances, look after yourself, spend plenty of time with kids and enjoy life. At 13M, you have plenty to live off and no worries to ever running out of money. You can take many vacations with kids when they are off for spring break/summer/x-mas etc....
 
Hear you, but I think you’re over emphasizing the importance of work to self in most corporate/for profit environments. We are just a cog, and a very replaceable cog. It’s easy to over exaggerate how important you/we are in a corp with billions in revenue and hundreds of millions in profit.
You're quite right, that we're just cogs. But to illustrate the personal element, consider an example. Rufus is a mechanical engineer at Boeing. He started at Boeing as a college intern, ending up in the fuselage structural design section. At Boeing, he learned finite-elements analysis, weldments, composite layup and composite-metal joining. Later, he moved to the landing gear unit, where he worked on hydraulic struts and structural design for landing gear hard points.

After 15 years, Boeing downsized Rufus. The company did just fine without him, and soon he was forgotten.
Rufus was unemployed for 6 months, eventually signing-on with Scaled Composites, a small/boutique aeronautical manufacturer. He was there for 10 years. He led a team that did the landing gear for the company's latest demonstrator, mentoring younger engineers and even getting a patent for a landing gear design... retracts that fold neatly into the wing/body junction, which have a simple safety mechanism to unfold in case of hydraulic/electrical failure. But then, he had an argument with management, and got fired.

For a few months, Scaled Composites struggled without Rufus, and his teammates missed him. But after more personnel changes, the company moved on. Rufus, after an even longer period of unemployment, moved across the country to work for Gulfstream Aerospace. At Gulfstream, he developed a new idea for a wing torsion-box that structurally integrated his earlier landing gear idea. He wrote a paper on the concept, presenting it to his engineering professional society, winning the award that year for "best paper". He also mentored a cohort of junior engineers, one of whom went on to do a PhD thesis at the local university, in consultation with Rufus.

But the good times didn't last. Management became more and more crotchety, Rufus felt marginalized, and one day, realizing that he'd hit FI long ago, Rufus resigned. He now sits at home, mostly surfing the internet.

In no case was Rufus irreplaceable. With a few personal exceptions, he wasn't even much missed. The companies for which he worked, went on just fine without him. But along the way, he influenced people in profound ways. He invented things, developed things, patented things. His professional peers recognized him. His name entered the history of his profession, affixed to innovative and seminal advances in design. Though he was never particularly important to his employers, his employers were important to him... less for the paycheck, than for the peer-interaction, the opportunity for interesting work, the chance to learn new things, and to contribute to his profession.

20 years later, Rufus, now an elderly man, is watching TV in the nursing home lounge. He sees a news program showing an aircraft making an emergency landing in a field. It uses his system for retracts! The aircraft lost all power, and the pilots were desperate.... but because of the engineering work that Rufus and his team had done, all 170 people onboard survived the landing. Rufus may never have been much thanked by Boeing, Scaled or Gulfstream, but he just saved 170 lives.... something that he couldn't have done, had he retired "prematurely".
 
You're quite right, that we're just cogs. But to illustrate the personal element, consider an example. Rufus is a mechanical engineer at Boeing. He started at Boeing as a college intern, ending up in the fuselage structural design section. At Boeing, he learned finite-elements analysis, weldments, composite layup and composite-metal joining. Later, he moved to the landing gear unit, where he worked on hydraulic struts and structural design for landing gear hard points.

After 15 years, Boeing downsized Rufus. The company did just fine without him, and soon he was forgotten.
Rufus was unemployed for 6 months, eventually signing-on with Scaled Composites, a small/boutique aeronautical manufacturer. He was there for 10 years. He led a team that did the landing gear for the company's latest demonstrator, mentoring younger engineers and even getting a patent for a landing gear design... retracts that fold neatly into the wing/body junction, which have a simple safety mechanism to unfold in case of hydraulic/electrical failure. But then, he had an argument with management, and got fired.

For a few months, Scaled Composites struggled without Rufus, and his teammates missed him. But after more personnel changes, the company moved on. Rufus, after an even longer period of unemployment, moved across the country to work for Gulfstream Aerospace. At Gulfstream, he developed a new idea for a wing torsion-box that structurally integrated his earlier landing gear idea. He wrote a paper on the concept, presenting it to his engineering professional society, winning the award that year for "best paper". He also mentored a cohort of junior engineers, one of whom went on to do a PhD thesis at the local university, in consultation with Rufus.

But the good times didn't last. Management became more and more crotchety, Rufus felt marginalized, and one day, realizing that he'd hit FI long ago, Rufus resigned. He now sits at home, mostly surfing the internet.

In no case was Rufus irreplaceable. With a few personal exceptions, he wasn't even much missed. The companies for which he worked, went on just fine without him. But along the way, he influenced people in profound ways. He invented things, developed things, patented things. His professional peers recognized him. His name entered the history of his profession, affixed to innovative and seminal advances in design. Though he was never particularly important to his employers, his employers were important to him... less for the paycheck, than for the peer-interaction, the opportunity for interesting work, the chance to learn new things, and to contribute to his profession.

20 years later, Rufus, now an elderly man, is watching TV in the nursing home lounge. He sees a news program showing an aircraft making an emergency landing in a field. It uses his system for retracts! The aircraft lost all power, and the pilots were desperate.... but because of the engineering work that Rufus and his team had done, all 170 people onboard survived the landing. Rufus may never have been much thanked by Boeing, Scaled or Gulfstream, but he just saved 170 lives.... something that he couldn't have done, had he retired "prematurely".

I like the example! Rufus is a ratcheting rockstar! :)

I would put Rufus in the bucket of vocations that he/we can see direct benefit from our work. Very important work.

Most of the tech jobs just don’t have the direct benefit you mention above. I know machinists and mechanical engineers at car companies that have the intrinsic satisfaction like Rufus has. I wish I did, but that ship sailed when I chose my ‘less intrinsic/tangible’ vocation.
 
Life, Longevity, and Health aren't guaranteed. What is guaranteed is that you'll feel the effects of aging, first around age 50, and then around 60, and it gets worse. I waited till 55 to ER, and boy, I sure wish I'd had the ability to FIRE at 50, or better yet, 45. I could have had another decade of prime years where I had the stamina to do the diving and travel I'd always dreamed of.

I did 5 hours of pressure washing today, and it wore me out (age 58). My wife didn't understand that I'm still 18 in my mind (with regards to my physical abilities), but my body disagrees. YOLO. Go for it by 45!
 
Life, Longevity, and Health aren't guaranteed. What is guaranteed is that you'll feel the effects of aging, first around age 50, and then around 60, and it gets worse. I waited till 55 to ER, and boy, I sure wish I'd had the ability to FIRE at 50, or better yet, 45. I could have had another decade of prime years where I had the stamina to do the diving and travel I'd always dreamed of.

I did 5 hours of pressure washing today, and it wore me out (age 58). My wife didn't understand that I'm still 18 in my mind (with regards to my physical abilities), but my body disagrees. YOLO. Go for it by 45!
I am 45 and trying to build the courage to pull the plug. I like the reminder you had about feeling the age and living it up in my prime years! Even though I am FI, I have a hard time leaving a great job with suddenly high income over the past 3 year.... I never had that most of my career so I feel like I should take it while I can. ugh.
 
Life, Longevity, and Health aren't guaranteed. What is guaranteed is that you'll feel the effects of aging, first around age 50, and then around 60, and it gets worse. I waited till 55 to ER, and boy, I sure wish I'd had the ability to FIRE at 50, or better yet, 45. I could have had another decade of prime years where I had the stamina to do the diving and travel I'd always dreamed of.
Not in the least to challenge your perspective, but... could you please note some big-picture examples of things that you could have done in your late 40s or early 50s, if you were already then retired... but were unable to do, because full-time work impeded?

My own view is a bit contrary. I never found for a full-time career to sap my energy or to tax my time. It did however limit where I could live, and consequently what hobbies or lifestyle I could pursue. For instance, if you enjoy mountain-climbing, but live in the Midwest, you're only going to be indulging in your hobby, while on vacation. But if you live and work in Denver or LA or Reno, you can pursue your hobby every day, after work.

Then there's travel. I was fortunate to have a job with lots of business-travel opportunities. Conferences. Client meetings and reviews. These were often overseas, in various parts of the world. Not bragging here... just statement of fact. It was generally possible to take leave while on-travel, combining business and pleasure. Museums etc. Photography. Now, looking back, I wonder: why spend my own money, on airfare or hotels and so on? It was better to travel then. Going forward, I have no particular desire to travel, whether overseas, or even downtown for a music-concert. Maybe that's the effects of age?
 
Not in the least to challenge your perspective, but... could you please note some big-picture examples of things that you could have done in your late 40s or early 50s, if you were already then retired... but were unable to do, because full-time work impeded?

My own view is a bit contrary. I never found for a full-time career to sap my energy or to tax my time. It did however limit where I could live, and consequently what hobbies or lifestyle I could pursue. For instance, if you enjoy mountain-climbing, but live in the Midwest, you're only going to be indulging in your hobby, while on vacation. But if you live and work in Denver or LA or Reno, you can pursue your hobby every day, after work.

Then there's travel. I was fortunate to have a job with lots of business-travel opportunities. Conferences. Client meetings and reviews. These were often overseas, in various parts of the world. Not bragging here... just statement of fact. It was generally possible to take leave while on-travel, combining business and pleasure. Museums etc. Photography. Now, looking back, I wonder: why spend my own money, on airfare or hotels and so on? It was better to travel then. Going forward, I have no particular desire to travel, whether overseas, or even downtown for a music-concert. Maybe that's the effects of age?
Almost the only thing I miss about w*rking for Megacorp was the "free" travel. I often drove instead of flying. I got my car paid for and then had access for excursions in and around my destination. I miss that a lot.
 
First, I'm going to say sorry for your loss, because my final parent recently died and I keep hearing that phrase as my siblings and I navigate the similar situation of receiving a large inheritance. I would have preferred that neither of my parents had dementia, and we had more time together, but you get what life hands you, how you deal with it is what really matters. We are planning out our families future, while honoring our parents wishes, which included us standing on our own and making our own way, which is the reason why we were all successful ourselves (but acknowledging our privileges as well). But dumping a large amount of money on someone will always have repercussions. We are mitigating our tax situations, while we are also thankful for the situation we live in because of the place we live in, and willing to pay our fair share of those taxes that created and support it. Something I learned from Nick Hanour's TED talks.

My take on it is a little different because of my situation, as I fully retired about 14 years ago at 43, basically on an enlisted pension after 26 years of hard military service. I won't go into too many details, but suffice to say there were many 100+ hour weeks, and my normal away time from my family was 285 days in a year while stationed on boats for 10 of those years, not to mention the nasty situations and conflicts I was part of. My ribbon and medal racks were made up of "I was in the wrong place at the right time, many, many times." So when I was lucky enough to be in a position to retire, I chose that option instead of finding another job to slave away at. And it was time for younger people to step up, as I was blocking the way. The old adage of the happiness level above the $75,000 income status applied to me. While it hasn't been a lavish period of "gone fishing," as you previously mentioned, I've kept myself very busy with hobbies and interests, and all of the many "But what will your do? Comments at my retirement were unfounded." So I can say that the advice previously posted here to START THE TRANSITION while keeping your desire to help your patients best interests sounds really wise to me. Nobody is indispensable (as many on here who have FIRE'd have commented), but the American work ethic in relation to what the average American makes vs their bosses has been seriously in-equalified for most of my life. And the GINI co-efficient supports this.

But I can address the concept of not having to worry about basic expenses while enjoying doing "whatever I thought was interesting" instead of having to do whatever my boss told me I had to do. The former is much, much, MUCH better. For that person and society as a whole.

Plan for a departure, and find a hobby or cause you can contribute to and make a difference in the world. Be thankful for the hard work you and your parents have done to put your family in the fortunate situation your in. I volunteered as an independent at the voting booths for many years. And then for various campaigns that advocated for the masses, instead of our polarized and purchased political system. Oh yes, and VOTE, not enough of us do, for various reasons, both intentional or by force. Hopefully we'll transition into a ranked choice system if enough of us are educated on it, and we eliminate the gobsmaking amounts of money used to influence it. But that's my purpose, go find yours.
 
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Almost the only thing I miss about w*rking for Megacorp was the "free" travel. I often drove instead of flying. I got my car paid for and then had access for excursions in and around my destination. I miss that a lot.

Back in the day, when I was at Megacorp, when we had to fly, they would buy us whatever the best economy refundable fare was if it was domestic. If it was international, then it was business class.

Now, what we were allowed to do was call the travel office and have them exchange the plane tickets to whatever we wanted, so long as the cost did not exceed the price of the original ticket they were purchasing for us. I was living/working in CA at the time. I was courting DW, who was in NJ. They had me traveling to some Air Force bases in the midwest consistently every few weeks one year. I'd have them change the return flights to go via EWR over an extended weekend. Worked out wonderfully.
 
Back in the day, when I was at Megacorp, when we had to fly, they would buy us whatever the best economy refundable fare was if it was domestic. If it was international, then it was business class.
By law, we had to fly economy class, even if it was across the Pacific. Fortunately we had a travel booking system where we could select carriers and flights, so long as our choice was not more expensive than the "default" choice. And because the default was often stupid, it wasn't hard to find a better deal AND a better flight.

After a while, one learned how to concentrate flights on one career or alliance of careers (the big three, anchored by Delta, American or United). Because the tickets were refundable, they were of a "higher rating" than the cheapest fares paid by tourists... meaning that airline points accumulated quickly. Eventually one could reach at least the lowest tier of "elite" traveler status, meaning occasional and then frequent upgrades, lounge access and so on. Nice perks!

Upon leaving that job, the cadence of my travel curtailed sharply. Gone were the Medallion and the Platinum and the Diamond and whatever... not immediately, but after a year or two. Now I'm just a rank bottom-feeder tourist. Still have most of the points and miles (they eventually expire), but boarding in Group 5 and sitting at the back of the bus (er, I mean, airplane) is a jarring feeling.
 
You have assets, you have a glide path, you have options. It comes down to weighing the competing factors and making what is, in your case, a very personal, decision.
 
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