A great conversation about FI & retiring early

[KiwiFI]

Thought to drop a link to this really interesting conversation about early retirement from the Two Sides of Fi podcast. Not sure if external links are allowed so apologies if not.

Interesting points about retiring from a promising career, the responses from friends, colleagues etc, & from the perspective of a couple. Some great insights here.

 

[Koolau]

Seems to emphasize the emotional side of FIRE.

 

[pacergal]

Good video, it does touch on more of the emotion, I agree.

 

[KiwiFI]

Good video, it does touch on more of the emotion, I agree.

Yes it does... rather then focus on financials, I think it's something a lot can resonate with. i.e. leaving a career behind can be challenging on one's identity. But as mentioned , you are not what you do... it's just one part of you.

Also loved the idea of not "retiring" but graduating. Some great insights.

 

[Diogenes]

So much to which to respond - thanks for the video!

First, these people are 51.... but they look like 31! Some of us may be nominally of a similar age, but we look... older, more worn, more decrepit. What does that imply?

Secondly, these folks have family and a business. Presumably these avocations command a considerable amount of their time, attention, passions and identity. Had these folks been single, with no children, no business to run, and no house... well then, their lives exterior to work might have been... fraught.

Third, evidently the lady being interviewed is/was a mid-career scientist who burned out from the bureaucracy, the administrative overhead, maybe the office infighting and so on. Increasingly, she was doing less science and more administration. Thus the desire to chuck it all, to go a completely different way. Some scientists are deeply miffed by the overhead. Others take it in stride.

Fourth, these folks place a tremendous value on their time. Not all of us, do so. Depending on how we value our time, there are consequences to... well, to everything.

 

[stepford]

So much to which to respond - thanks for the video!

First, these people are 51.... but they look like 31! Some of us may be nominally of a similar age, but we look... older, more worn, more decrepit. What does that imply?

I dunno, 50ish friends that stay in shape and don't drink or smoke look about the same. Look at movies from the 1960s or earlier. It's shocking what 50 year olds looked like.

 

[Koolau]

I dunno, 50ish friends that stay in shape and don't drink or smoke look about the same. Look at movies from the 1960s or earlier. It's shocking what 50 year olds looked like.

I wish I felt as young as I look!

 

[Diogenes]

I dunno, 50ish friends that stay in shape and don't drink or smoke look about the same. Look at movies from the 1960s or earlier. It's shocking what 50 year olds looked like.

There's a difference between facial appearance and overall fitness. One might be able to do 100 pushups, and run a 5K in 24 minutes... but look old. Wrinkles, deep furrows in the forehead, gray hair turning white. The folks in the video just look youthful. We have no idea of their fitness level, or even things like their body fat percentage.

My point is that this youthful look, in particular a young-looking face, is more about amiable disposition, than about diet or exercise. Amiable disposition means a positive attitude overall, good management of stress (or a life blissfully devoid of stress), little practice in wearing a wrinkle-inducing frown. Having such disposition allows one to succeed, whether in early retirement or in a dogged perseverance in one's career.

 

[Koolau]

There's a difference between facial appearance and overall fitness. One might be able to do 100 pushups, and run a 5K in 24 minutes... but look old. Wrinkles, deep furrows in the forehead, gray hair turning white. The folks in the video just look youthful. We have no idea of their fitness level, or even things like their body fat percentage.

My point is that this youthful look, in particular a young-looking face, is more about amiable disposition, than about diet or exercise. Amiable disposition means a positive attitude overall, good management of stress (or a life blissfully devoid of stress), little practice in wearing a wrinkle-inducing frown. Having such disposition allows one to succeed, whether in early retirement or in a dogged perseverance in one's career.

May just be genetic - like my mostly dark hair at 78 (I call it Ronald Reagan hair). YMMV

 

[NeilDH]

Nice discussion. Thanks for the link! I can relate to a lot of it, as I’m sure many of us can.

I left my career when I was at the top of it, with a chance to go higher. But like her, I also could see what that meant and I didn’t like it, so it was a good time to go. I miss the fun parts of my career but also had had enough. (Plus I simulate that fun stuff with my own website now.)

I also dread the “what are you doing now” question, as we’ve posted elsewhere. Some judgment comes with it — and also some doubt on my part (that’s slowly dissipating). I also like “graduating” vs “retiring.” I also am careful not to “jump for joy” around peers still laboring. Besides, I felt more relief at first than joy. I just needed a break as she said. More joy kicked in later.

Did they really stand for the full 45 minutes?

 

[KiwiFI]

Nice discussion. Thanks for the link! I can relate to a lot of it, as I’m sure many of us can.

I left my career when I was at the top of it, with a chance to go higher. But like her, I also could see what that meant and I didn’t like it, so it was a good time to go. I miss the fun parts of my career but also had had enough. (Plus I simulate that fun stuff with my own website now.)

I also dread the “what are you doing now” question, as we’ve posted elsewhere. Some judgment comes with it — and also some doubt on my part (that’s slowly dissipating). I also like “graduating” vs “retiring.” I also am careful not to “jump for joy” around peers still laboring. Besides, I felt more relief at first than joy. I just needed a break as she said. More joy kicked in later.

Did they really stand for the full 45 minutes?

I think they did stand! Lovely couple. A lot of the other pods they do are much more about financials.

You raise a good point. At what stage do you actually celebrate graduation around others rather than constantly minimising it - and yourself - in conversations? I suppose it differs across your many relationships & social circles. What I'm choosing to do is tell people that I've retired from IT & looking for my next project. I've had a 30 yr career, I've done my bit and I'm now out !

 

[KiwiFI]

I dunno, 50ish friends that stay in shape and don't drink or smoke look about the same. Look at movies from the 1960s or earlier. It's shocking what 50 year olds looked like.

Look at the actor Rob Lowe. Quit drinking 30 years ago and the man doesn't look a day over 45. He's 60 !!

 

[Koolau]

Look at the actor Rob Lowe. Quit drinking 30 years ago and the man doesn't look a day over 45. He's 60 !!

I often wonder if that youthful look is due to having some w*rk done (plus professional make up). Back in the day, they could de-age folks by taping their skin back to temporarily erase the lines. It's sort of a temporary face lift. They did that for Howard Stern for the movie "Private Parts."

Now they can erase lines (de age) with software.

 

[brett]

I retired early, but not too early. I was a bit of a workaholic. Lots of travel. Stress at Qends and Yend.

What surprised me was a number of comments from friends who had not seen me for some time.

In the interim we had both made some significant changes to our lifestyle. Much healthier eating, exercise, lot of interestng travel, etc.

I partially attribute my very good health 13 years later directly to some of those lifestyle choices that we made at the time. Plus good genes.

The comments were the same. You look younger, better, healthier (which I was) and happier (an understatement).

 

[Diogenes]

At what stage do you actually celebrate graduation around others rather than constantly minimising it - and yourself - in conversations? I suppose it differs across your many relationships & social circles. What I'm choosing to do is tell people that I've retired from IT & looking for my next project. I've had a 30 yr career, I've done my bit and I'm now out !

This is relative to society's expectations. Running with the theme of "graduation", consider the age of graduation for high school. Normal age is 18. A person who does it at 17, might be lauded as being quick or talented. It's something of which to be proud, or in any case, not to hide, even if it's awkward to still be only 17 during the following autumn, as a freshman in college. But what if a person manages to graduate from high school at age 14? That would be freakish and bizarre. How would a 14-year-old mingle with peers, advance to the next stage (presumably college) and so on? Some cover-story would be needed, or at very least, very ginger and deft management of one's reputation.

So too, I think, with early retirement. Early-ish retirement, say at age 60, is no problem. Some people might be envious, but to retire at 60 is something of which to be proud; no explanations or excuses are necessary. But at age 51? That's akin to graduating from high school at age 14... even if, at 51, one might plausibly have had a 30-year career. If indeed retiring at 51, one likely has to spend some years - maybe 5 or 6 - with a low profile and a cover story.

 

[Koolau]

This is relative to society's expectations. Running with the theme of "graduation", consider the age of graduation for high school. Normal age is 18. A person who does it at 17, might be lauded as being quick or talented. It's something of which to be proud, or in any case, not to hide, even if it's awkward to still be only 17 during the following autumn, as a freshman in college. But what if a person manages to graduate from high school at age 14? That would be freakish and bizarre. How would a 14-year-old mingle with peers, advance to the next stage (presumably college) and so on? Some cover-story would be needed, or at very least, very ginger and deft management of one's reputation.

So too, I think, with early retirement. Early-ish retirement, say at age 60, is no problem. Some people might be envious, but to retire at 60 is something of which to be proud; no explanations or excuses are necessary. But at age 51? That's akin to graduating from high school at age 14... even if, at 51, one might plausibly have had a 30-year career. If indeed retiring at 51, one likely has to spend some years - maybe 5 or 6 - with a low profile and a cover story.

I think your numerical evaluation is pretty good. 50 is a LOT younger than 60 when it comes to FIRE. I never got any pushback retiring at 58 though, as you mention, a bit of envy ("Boy, are you lucky!")

My mom skipped two grades in primary school and finished a year in college at age 17. For her "reward" she did 63 years of employment though most of that was self employment (Heh, heh, she FIRE'd at 80.) She taught me well! "Don't let this happen to you, son."

 

[Music Lover]

If indeed retiring at 51, one likely has to spend some years - maybe 5 or 6 - with a low profile and a cover story.

There are millions of people that had govt jobs and retired at 55 or earlier. I don't know why anyone would need a cover story unless maybe they had friends and relatives that might hit them up for money. We don't have any of those but if we did they'd have been identified early and basically ignored.

 

[NeilDH]

I downplay only among my ex-career peers, as FIRE is virtually unheard of in my field. But what you say about govt workers, and that includes others, is why I got more support in my family and some other places than I expected.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I looked young for 60 years, often mistaken to be my son's sister. Then I turned 60 and I now have turkey neck! I still don't have wrinkles otherwise but turkey neck is a dead giveaway that I am finally OLD!

 

[Diogenes]

There are millions of people that had govt jobs and retired at 55 or earlier. I don't know why anyone would need a cover story unless maybe they had friends and relatives that might hit them up for money. We don't have any of those but if we did they'd have been identified early and basically ignored.

Which is why 55 is something of a demarcation-age. Above that, is still quite "early", but sufficiently "late", that it appears "normal". Below that, as in the video prompting this thread, one has to make justifications, or other allowances.

This also applies, I think, to our own psychology. A person might reach FI at 45, or even earlier, depending on career-progression and spending-habits. But the gulf between FI and RE might be extensive, in that age bracket. That's because of psychology and delay in feeling of readiness, beyond merely financial readiness. On the other hand, a person who is, say, 58, might decide on RE immediately upon reaching FI.