A pick up on living on $30,000 a year.

[modhatter]

We have had many posts on this subject, and it all comes down to where you live and do you have a paid off house. We all discuss mortgages/rent, & RE taxes as being the big culprit and kind of assume that all other costs must be somewhat similar. But I wonder how varied they can be.

As an example. I consider these expenses highlighted as high and think others may have more reasonable costs elsewhere.

Utility costs: I average approx. $350 per month all year round for utilities for a 1700 sq. ft house in the desert. (about $600 in summer months)
(Winter 68 degrees, summer 77 degrees)

Car insurance runs approx $240 a month for two cars (older cars)

Registration; Around $400 a yr. for two cars.

Cox cable (internet only) $68 mo. and soon to increase (only Netfix and Amazon Prime, along with OTA TV at about $18 mo extra)

Medicare Supplemental Insurance (Plan J -similar to F) $254 mo. for just me.

Dental seems outrageous here. Had a root canal done on front tooth. Took dentist all of 15 minutes. That cost $1,340 and that is without a cap which will be $1,200 more.

Food is hard for me to judge. Loaf of better bread $3.99. Gal of milk $3.49
Orange juice $3.99 Qt., Eggs $3.99 or $4.99 for Eggs Best. Ground beef $5.99+ lb. Don't know if that is high, med or low.

If we stop for an inexpensive meal somewhere, the cheapest meal usually runs around $12 ea., plus drinks and tip.

Home insurance seems normal to me. Runs about $650 a year (not counting an additional $340 for a @ million umbrella.

Real Estate Taxes are reasonable at about $1,800 a year and we don't have state income taxes, so that off sets the higher utility costs and maybe a bit of the high auto insurance costs.

All these costs are regional differences and we all must budget for them. Do you find much of a difference in these cost in your area. I am in the Southwest.

 

[W2R]

Utility costs: I average approx. $350 per month all year round for utilities for a 1700 sq. ft house in the desert. (about $600 in summer months)
(Winter 68 degrees, summer 77 degrees)

$264/month includes water/trash/sewage, electricity($64), natural gas ($37), cell phone, and cable internet.

Car insurance runs approx $240 a month for two cars (older cars)

$121/month for a 2009 Venza

Registration; Around $400 a yr. for two cars.

$66/year for 2009 Venza

Cox cable (internet only) $68 mo. and soon to increase (only Netfix and Amazon Prime, along with OTA TV at about $18 mo extra)

$73/month Cox Cable internet only

Medicare Supplemental Insurance (Plan J -similar to F) $254 mo. for just me.

$217/month, federal retiree insurance supplementing Medicare.

Root canal done on front tooth. Took dentist all of 15 minutes. That cost $1,340 and that is without a cap which will be $1,200 more.

$740 root canal and temporary
$800 crown afterwards

Food is hard for me to judge. Loaf of better bread $3.99. Gal of milk $3.49
Orange juice $3.99 Qt., Eggs $3.99 or $4.99 for Eggs Best. Ground beef $5.99+ lb. Don't know if that is high, med or low.

I don't really know. Not trying to cut food costs.
$271/month groceries
$302/month restaurants (all lunches, some dinners).

If we stop for an inexpensive meal somewhere, the cheapest meal usually runs around $12 ea., plus drinks and tip.

$5 for cheapest meals, not fast food, water to drink. Tip is another dollar or two.

Home insurance seems normal to me. Runs about $650 a year (not counting an additional $340 for a @ million umbrella.

$1653 at old house (flood, wind and hail, and homeowners).
$3109 at new house, not grandfathered in.
Umbrella policies not sold here due to messed up insurance situation.

Real Estate Taxes are reasonable at about $1,800 a year and we don't have state income taxes, so that off sets the higher utility costs and maybe a bit of the high auto insurance costs.

$951 at old house.
Don't know yet for new dream house. .

All these costs are regional differences and we all must budget for them. Do you find much of a difference in these cost in your area. I am in the Southwest.

My opinion from what you listed, is that you live in an area with high cost of living compared with New Orleans (except for house insurance! ). So, if you could keep that down ,or rent, it might be cheaper here. But what are you getting for these higher expenses? Maybe you get to live near relatives, or in a location that you love. It might or might not be worth spending more, depending on how much you like living there.

 

[zinger1457]

Sounds like you might live in the Vegas area, I also live in the southwest (AZ) although at what would be considered the high desert so summers are much milder than what you experience.

My utility cost (electric, water, and propane) average out to about $100/month. Trash pickup $66/quarter.

Also have Cox internet but get by with their lower tier $35/month plan.

Dish TV locked into $61/month for 2 years.

Home insurance $420/year

Auto Insurance $620/year for a 2016 Toyota pickup.

If I need dental I drive to the Mexican boarder (25 miles away), root canal and crown for maybe $600.

Property Tax on 2250sq-ft home $2400.

 

[braumeister]

All our equivalent costs are considerably less here in Kentucky, as you would expect.

 

[dixonge]

Utility costs: I average approx. $350 per month all year round for utilities for a 1700 sq. ft house in the desert. (about $600 in summer months)
(Winter 68 degrees, summer 77 degrees)

$120 to $160 (apartment) - thermostat set similiarly

Car insurance runs approx $240 a month for two cars (older cars)

One older car, $37.56/mo - includes Renters insurance - USAA

Registration; Around $400 a yr. for two cars.

$57/year - one car

Cox cable (internet only) $68 mo. and soon to increase (only Netfix and Amazon Prime, along with OTA TV at about $18 mo extra)

$35/mo for 50mb internet + Amazon Prime (paid yearly)

Food is hard for me to judge. Loaf of better bread $3.99. Gal of milk $3.49
Orange juice $3.99 Qt., Eggs $3.99 or $4.99 for Eggs Best. Ground beef $5.99+ lb. Don't know if that is high, med or low.

We cut way back on meat last year due to both cost and calories. We now buy no dairy or eggs, or bread either. So I have no idea what any of those things cost here.

If we stop for an inexpensive meal somewhere, the cheapest meal usually runs around $12 ea., plus drinks and tip.

One thing that is expensive here is restaurants. The only place we could eat inexpensively was In-n-Out. Not very healthy, though. Our favorite vegan restaurant runs around $7-$10 per entree plus drinks, although we normally eat there for breakfast and coffee. Here a single taco on a plate w/ a few miserly toppings can easily run you $5-$7.

That's Austin for you. We pay $875 for a one-bedroom apartment, and it was pretty much the cheapest rate anywhere near where I work, way outside the city center. Tiny studio lofts downtown go for $1500/mo minimum. For Texas, that's damned expensive.

All of this is magnified by comparing it to Mexico where we lived the last few years. All of this is an order of magnitude cheaper there!

 

[MBSC]

Medicare Supplemental Insurance (Plan J -similar to F) $254 mo. for just me.

Plan J is closed to new enrollees meaning premiums are not kept low by new, healthier members. If you are healthy and can pass medical underwriting, you should consider a switch to Plan G. I selected the following without knowing your age or location.

Preferred rates for 76 year old male non-smoker.
Phoenix, AZ: $168 Plan G through Shenandoah Life
Las Vegas, NV: $191 Plan G through Transamerica Life

For me:
Electric: $650/yr (all-electric house in SE U.S.)
Water: $250/yr
Cell Phone: $95/yr
Car Insurance: $600/yr (1 car)
Car registration: $12/yr
Car Ad Valorem tax: $150/yr
Cable TV: $420/yr
Cable internet: $180/yr (2mb)
Home insurance: $500/yr
Property tax: 0.4% market value
Amortization of lumpy expenses: $5,000/yr (new car, roof, HVAC, water heater, etc.)
State income tax: My income is below the minimum threshold.
Sales tax: 1% groceries, 10% restaurants, 7% other.
Milk: $2.99 gallon
Gas: $1.42 gallon

 

[rodi]

Utilities (gas/electric/water/sewer): $262/month average
Car insurance - 2 cars, 1 is liability only: $46/month
Car tags/registration: $229/year... so $19/month
Cable tv/internet/netflix/tivo: $105/month (need to relook at this.)
Medical Insurance HDHP last year (up about $100/month this year): 1155/month (family of 4)
Groceries (family of 4): 915/month

These were all actual expenses pulled from quicken. But groceries were a little lower since we traveled for 9 weeks during the summer. I budget for 1100/month.

 

[NW-Bound]

... As an example. I consider these expenses highlighted as high and think others may have more reasonable costs elsewhere.

Utility costs: I average approx. $350 per month all year round for utilities for a 1700 sq. ft house in the desert. (about $600 in summer months)
(Winter 68 degrees, summer 77 degrees)

... All these costs are regional differences and we all must budget for them. Do you find much of a difference in these cost in your area. I am in the Southwest.

I spend a lot of money for housing, but apparently cannot complain about my electric bill. It's $2123 for last year, or $177/month. The home is 2,700 sq.ft., and the temperature is kept at 67 winter, 78 summer. And I also have a pool pump. My highest monthly bill is $350 in August for 2700 kWh.

I am also in the Southwest, the so called Valley of the Sun. By the way, the bill for water/sewer/garbage collection combined is $1610 for last year.

Utilities (gas/electric/water/sewer): $262/month average

My total rate is then $311/month for a comparison.

 

[marko]

Man am I living in the wrong part of the country!

My RE, income and car taxes alone come to $25K.

 

[Looking4Ward]

3300sf home, two late model vehicles.

Last month:

$91 electric
$64 gas
$86 water, sewer, trash
$94 cable & 100mb internet

Last year:

$790 home insurance
$6800 property taxes
$1080 car insurance

Yesterday:

1 dozen eggs: $1.98
1/2 gallon orange juice: $2.35
1 gallon 2% milk: $2.85
Boneless, skinless chicken breast: $1.79lb
Avocados: 2 for $1
Gas: $1.46 a gallon

 

[Tom52]

Utitilities (gas/elec/water/sewer) $216.83/mo. avg. winter 72, summer 78
Car ins. 2 cars full coverage - $60/month avg.
Car registration: $22.87/month avg.
Cable TV + Internet: $122.49/month avg.
Groceries for two adults: $404.12/month avg.
Homeowners insurance: $73.24/month avg.
Property taxes: $225.50/month avg.

This in a fairly low cost Midwest rural community.

 

[John Galt III]

I'm in Pa.

Utility costs: $30/mo water. $100/mo electric. 60 Winter 78 SUmmer

Car insurance : $58/mo includes 2 older cars.

Registration: $36 per year per car. Inspection : $50 per car per year.

Cable: $99 per month for one tier above basic. TV only, no internet.

Medicare Supplemental Insurance : not there yet. Happily using Obamacare with subsidy, so skating by at $36/mo.

Dental: Don't even want to think about it.

Food: Ranges from expensive to cheap for the same stuff, at different stores. I get 80% lean hamburger $3 a pound. Kiwi 25 cents each. Small grapefruit 25 cents each. Pork loin boneless $1.69 a pound. Whole chicken $0.99 a pound (but lots of water added).

Restaurants (non-fast food) are expensive for some reason. One lousy taco $8. What? One overcooked hamburger and fries $10. (no salad) What? Fortunately I have found a place that serves an excellent flat iron steak sandwich for $10.95, so much better than a hamburger.

Home insurance. $300 per year.

Real Estate Taxes: Horrible. $4,500 per year total for county, city, school district taxes (not including water, sewer, garbage, recycling). And always going up, of course. For a modest townhome. What?

 

[audreyh1]

We pay more in Federal income taxes than these folks are living on, so we're definitely in a different club.

Doesn't matter that we live in a very low cost of living area and no state income tax.

 

[W2R]

We pay more in Federal income taxes than these folks are living on, so we're definitely in a different club.

Doesn't matter that we live in a very low cost of living area and no state income tax.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought this thread was based on Imoldernu's original thread. I believe that thread assumed that you had no income taxes or portfolio any more, but just $30K in tax free income. So the point of that thread was to see if one's cost of living (other than income taxes and medical) could be brought below $30K.

Since the present thread does not include all costs of living, I'm not sure how it relates; one could get the overall cost of living in various locations at online comparison websites. Still I provided mine to give the OP a basis for comparison of the particular costs he was interested in.

 

[audreyh1]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought this thread was based on Imoldernu's original thread. I believe that thread assumed that you had no income taxes or portfolio any more, but just $30K in tax free income. So the point of that thread was to see if one's cost of living (other than income taxes and medical) could be brought below $30K.

Since the present thread does not include all costs of living, I'm not sure how it relates; one could get the overall cost of living in various locations at online comparison websites. Still I provided mine to give the OP a basis for comparison of the particular costs he was interested in.

I'm sure I misunderstood.

I was just commenting. I won't be trying to see if I could keep after tax spending at $30K or less. Just thought it was ironic that I already pay more in income taxes.

 

[karen1972]

Living in NC:

Utility costs: avg $346/month
Water/Waste: $40
Mobile Phone (2 lines): $109
Internet/TV: $90
Electricity: $107

Car insurance $49/month (2011 CRV)

Registration: not sure had to pay property tax when moved here, haven't gotten normal bill yet.

Medicare Insurance ($355 for me, $399 for BF, no subsidy).

Dental is outrageous here too, 1 crown $1640.

Food .. your prices are about right for here too... we are running $1000/month (including toilet paper and such that we get at the grocery store) and that's on a super watched budget...but my BF is a runner and still eats for 3 and we eat mostly fresh produce (currently most fruit is running $1.99/lb ie one apple = $2 and that's at krogers not whole foods) and meat, very little grain.

Home insurance $634/year (Umbrella $160 for a @ million umbrella).

Real Estate Taxes: $1800 (and we have a tiny 1250 SQ FT house).

We wouldn't be comfortable on $30k we can probably squeeze down to $50K+tax. especially since our total out of pocket on medical alone last year was slightly over $10k and I already maxed out my deductible this year.

 

[NW-Bound]

I am sure I can live on $30K if that's all I have. No doubt about that at all. It's simply not the lifestyle I am having, despite calling myself frugal. And I can stay quite comfortable too, if that $30K does not include healthcare cost.

Why, I spent more than 3x that last year, and that does not even include income taxes.

 

[aaronc879]

I couldn't image spending $30K/yr, every year. That's a lot of money to me. Here is my budget for 2016:

2016 Annual Expenses
-Electric:75/mo
-Condo fee
Tax/insurance/maint.:275/mo
-Internet/cell:75/mo
-Car-gas/maint./ins.:150/mo
-Food:175/mo
-Self emp./income tax:200/mo
-Health:75/mo
-misc.:75/mo

Total:$1100=$13,200/yr

This is just my budget for this year not my retirement budget. That wold have to include prorated car replacement and other large purchases but even that would keep me under $20K/yr on average.

This is for a single person in small town upper midwest with paid off condo. I'd happily spend more if I had more but I wouldn't be willing to work longer to get that extra money.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

First I should say I love these posts, gives a good idea of the average costs of living, it would be nice to know the State and even City/town.

Here is ours from 2015 Budget SS.

HOA & Yard Maintenance: $3191
RE Taxes: $8,000
All Utilities (El, Gas, Tel etc: $3,698
All Insurance (Not ACA) $2,750
Car Costs (Lease, Reg.) $7,300


North East Florida (No Income Tax State)


Eggs: $2.20
Milk 1/2 Gal AM: $2.50
Gasoline (Now): $2.00
Lettuce: $1.50
Tomms (1lb): $2.25

 

[modhatter]

To answer another poster's question, what I was saying is we often look at things like the cost of a home in your chosen area along with the real estate taxes and sometimes perhaps state taxes. in determining a more reasonable place to relocate to. (when considering COL)

But all of those other things we pay for like utilities, food, auto and home insurance, internet, cable, gas prices, medical costs etc. seem to have quite a varied price attached to them. Now I understand certain costs being effected by region.

Example: Homeowner's insurance being higher when you live in hurricane or tornado territory. Higher auto insurance when you live in areas with higher auto thefts, accidents or law suits. Higher utility costs when you live in very cold or very hot weather.

But things like internet service cost or cable costs should not be area specific.
Same with phone service. Mobile phone service is usually a national cost. Food also seems to vary quite a bit, which I question. As an example someone mentioned avocados running two for $1.00. Here in close proximity to California (a large avocado capital) as well as Mexico, our avocados run average $1.00 to $1.50 each. Gas is still over $3.00 a gallon here too.

And what about food? Once while traveling from the East Coast (Florida) across the country to the West Coast pulling a travel trailer, we stopped in a super Walmart to pick up some food items. It was one of the southern states (can't remember which one), and I was floored by the costs. I saw the bread I usually paid around $3.49 to $3.79 for $2.49. I saw many other items that were considerably cheaper as well. Now this was in a poorer area than where I lived, but these were name brand items and the costs were considerably less.

So, I question if things that have no contributing factors effecting cost, are just priced lower, like food, internet, cable, etc. Are they just priced lower because incomes are lower? Have others found this to be true?

And yes to the poster above me, to make sense of any of it, we need to know where people are located. At least the state would be helpful to make a comparison (though that can vary wildly as well) As someone guessed, I'm in Nevada.

 

[karen1972]

And what about food? Once while traveling from the East Coast (Florida) across the country to the West Coast pulling a travel trailer, we stopped in a super Walmart to pick up some food items. It was one of the southern states (can't remember which one), and I was floored by the costs. I saw the bread I usually paid around $3.49 to $3.79 for $2.49. I saw many other items that were considerably cheaper as well. Now this was in a poorer area than where I lived, but these were name brand items and the costs were considerably less.

So, I question if things that have no contributing factors effecting cost, are just priced lower, like food, internet, cable, etc. Are they just priced lower because incomes are lower? Have others found this to be true?

And yes to the poster above me, to make sense of any of it, we need to know where people are located. At least the state would be helpful to make a comparison (though that can vary wildly as well) As someone guessed, I'm in Nevada.

I think the cost of food is so dependent on labor which is why costs vary so. Its everything from what the farmer gets, to what the driver, the butcher, the grocery store worker makes.. add to that the cheaper lease price and the fact that the owner doesn't need to make as much to still feel rich. The average driver in my parents small town would make $10/hr, the average driver in Chicago made $35/40. It is also very dependent on how far the food needs to travel...so places like Wisconsin which still has a lot of farms, the prices are way down (supply/demand) vs. Illinois so many farms were squeezed out to the way way outer burbs which meant sky high farmer market rates because they have to truck it in 50 miles, they have to worry about wilting/etc so more produce goes bad.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

So, I question if things that have no contributing factors effecting cost, are just priced lower, like food, internet, cable, etc. Are they just priced lower because incomes are lower? Have others found this to be true?

We've saved a lot by shopping and getting our cars serviced in further out suburbs even within the same metro area. I graphed the prices for 60K service work by various dealers on one of our cars and the further out into the suburbs the dealers were located, the cheaper and cheaper the prices got. I am sure part of it has to do with rent but I also think some of it is just what the market will bear. I think we saved something like $400 driving 40 minutes from home instead of going to the dealer in town.

We grocery shop mainly now at an outlet store 20 minutes from home and the prices are half of neighborhood retail grocery store.

 

[modhatter]

I think the cost of food is so dependent on labor which is why costs vary so. Its everything from what the farmer gets, to what the driver, the butcher, the grocery store worker makes.. add to that the cheaper lease price and the fact that the owner doesn't need to make as much to still feel rich. The average driver in my parents small town would make $10/hr, the average driver in Chicago made $35/40. It is also very dependent on how far the food needs to travel...so places like Wisconsin which still has a lot of farms, the prices are way down (supply/demand) vs. Illinois so many farms were squeezed out to the way way outer burbs which meant sky high farmer market rates because they have to truck it in 50 miles, they have to worry about wilting/etc so more produce goes bad.

Yes that is a good point. I considered the cost of miles driven from farm or distribution center to store. But the drivers are not local. They usually hail from where the food is distributed from. Produce is more farm dependent on agricultural areas, but items like bread, canned foods, etc. can come from all over.

But did not consider cost of real estate, taxes and labor for supermarket, which could be a big nut.

daylatedollarshort: You would think prices would be lower when there is competition. But if there is only one dealership in the city, then it would stand to reason, the one located in a more rural area could cost less.

That often times does not play out that way for many business, where there is little completion.

 

[FUEGO]

Southeastern US: almost all our costs are lower, and sometimes much lower. We have a similar size house FYI.

Our car insurance was $240 for 6 months for 2 people, and now that we dropped to 1 car it'll be even lower.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

current electric bill 38.13
current gas bill 16.05 (last month 12.07)
cell phone 11 bucks-Republic wireless
property taxes 300 per month on property purchased in '96