A World Without Work

[marko]

Then, humankind and other animals are only hindrance to the machines, and will be eliminated by the latter.

"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that....."

 

[Free To Canoe]

A thread brought back from the dead. I guess AI has been in the news lately.

 

[O2Bfree]

I think that without work, there could be a further rise in mental illness as people who aren't motivated to stay engaged with other activities get stuck in their own heads, maybe turning to alcohol, drugs, food, or other unhealthy behaviors in an attempt to escape. Of course, having to work at an unpleasant job can cause mental illness too, so maybe it'd be a wash.

Also, without work, would education be necessary? Maybe just classes on life skills, like how to take care of your health and how to use technology? I'd think that curiosity about the big questions—how did the universe begin, what is the source of consciousness, etc.—would not go away, so some people would continue working on those. Though maybe at that point such questions would be answered.

 

[Music Lover]

Also, without work, would education be necessary?

Hmm, uneducated population that doesn't work that's reliant on the government for everything.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Aerides]

A thread brought back from the dead. I guess AI has been in the news lately.

It was bumped by a now-departed spam account.

 

[O2Bfree]

Hmm, uneducated population that doesn't work that's reliant on the government for everything.

What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe depends on who is doing the governing—humans who are still working or AI. Or who programmed the AI. Miles Dyson? Harry Mudd?

 

[dixonge]

Tesla is heavily into robotics in all phases of their products. Probably have more robotics than most any other car company, and are developing a humanoid robot for, primarily, doing the heavy lifting in spots too tight for the big robotic arms. While all this robotics might have ameliorated the need for quite a few humans, they have still managed to grow their workforce to around 130,000. So instead of working the line, you might end up transitioning to maintaining and QC'ing the robots working the line.

It's not a zero-sum situation. In the process of modernizing, roboticizing and AI'ing the world, we don't just replace existing jobs, we create many, many more. While the percentage of the population required for employment might slowly slip, I see no sudden 'event horizon' sort of future. But we definitely get to stop being forced to work the truly crappy jobs...

 

[marko]

It's not a zero-sum situation. In the process of modernizing, roboticizing and AI'ing the world, we don't just replace existing jobs, we create many, many more. While the percentage of the population required for employment might slowly slip, I see no sudden 'event horizon' sort of future. But we definitely get to stop being forced to work the truly crappy jobs...

+1
While computers have replaced millions of (drudgery) jobs, look at the millions now employed in the making and maintaining of those computers.

 

[kgtest]

I remember when automation was supposed to bring us the 32 hour work week.

In some regards, it probably has. I write code that automates "testing/validating" software. So I write code to pass data around, and also to navigate web applications, clicking mouse buttons and typing inputs without actually typing it. Well of course I need to command the "test scripts" to do this with code, but yeah I am engineering test automation. I figure, you will ALWAYS need a cog to test something so that it works halfway decent before someone else gets to use it.

I haven't really worked a full 40 hour week in years. I am "available" during a 40 hour work week, but I rarely am sitting at my desk, actively engaged for that many hours. I don't know if I ever have been and I've been at it for 15 yrs. On Friday's its like why bother even signing on. Nobody is working much. Our work gave us the option to do 4 day work weeks which would have been 4 ten hour days, but nobody on my team decided to take the company up on the offer...probably because like I mentioned we hardly work much on Friday's as it is.

I've run to appointments, met up with friends for lunch, went out to lunch with my wife, dealt with personal matters and family affairs..all while on the clock. I still keep getting good raises, and plenty of job offers.

I wonder what a world without human "service" would be like. Nobody to check you into a hotel, nobody to take your order, nobody to talk to while you get your haircut, or to say "thanks for shopping with us". Theoretically MOST service oriented jobs could be automated with AI and robots.

Think the self-checkout lanes, McDonalds and Taco Bell Have them, Wal-mart, and your grocer all have them setup, CVS as well. It's only a matter of time before you probably won't even need to go to a store anymore. Maybe in 20 yrs or so. Everything will be e-commerce. But does that mean the campgrounds will start over flowing now that we all are on perma-vacation, galivanting around to beautiful places??

 

[NW-Bound]

Or will we see more and more homeless people like this?

 

[marko]

I remember when automation was supposed to bring us the 32 hour work week.

People are "there" at work 40 hours but maybe are spending 20 of those on tick tok, Twitter, email and such. Seriously, next time you see a cop on a construction detail, they're probably standing there on their phone.

 

[Andre1969]

By then, machines will be self-sufficient. They will be fully capable of any maintenance issues as well as reproducing (mutating) as needed.

"Boy, do we have a vacation for you...for you...for you..."

 

[Badger]

Non-human individual service has been around in various forms for decades. Nothing new (nihil sub sōle novum). Just like McD has introduced kiosk services more food services will copy as well as the non-food services that will follow. With on-line ordering many jobs will be fazed out as new delivery jobs are created. Many of us who have many decades of experience may not like the direction of all the changes but then if we have 10-15 years of time left it may not be an issue to worry about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autom...Avenue,_Manhattan_(NYPL_b13668355-482752).jpg

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Maybe the robots will do better than this?

Or perhaps it was done by a robot and it is a sign they are taking over already?

 

[Chuckanut]

Non-human individual service has been around in various forms for decades. Nothing new (nihil sub sōle novum). Just like McD has introduced kiosk services more food services will copy as well as the non-food services that will follow. With on-line ordering many jobs will be fazed out as new delivery jobs are created.

It's become obvious to me that McDonald's does not want people to enter their stores, line up at the counter and place and an order. That started during Covid, when they stores kept the drive through open but locked the entrance and exit doors. You or your kids need the bathroom? Order food in the drive-thru, then go someplace else. That was the message. Today many McDs have their bathrooms locked because of misuse by drug addicts. That may be a problem if you travel with young ones of the opposite sex.

Oddly, they do offer table service even if you order on the app. But, my guess is that they don't really want to do that. I think we oldsters have sort of forced that issue. Usually, the tables that were occupied had mostly age 50+ people having their coffee and Egg McMuffin at breakfast or a coke and burger at lunch.

Today, the app is the way to go. I have entered McDs to find nothing but a waiting line at the counter and nobody behind it. And if you don't use the app and collect 'Points' you pay a lot more. McD prices have gone way up, and the only way to counter that is to collect the points via the app, then apply them to 'free' food in your order. I quickly found out which sandwiches were the lower point ones. That allowed me to stretch my points. But, be careful! The points expire in about 6 months. I only visit McD on road trips when I need a quick stop. I learned to run my point total down to as close to zero as I can. Especially if the next road trip is more than 6 months out.

No doubt about it. Order on the app before you walk into the store. Also, get as much food as you can with your points. Thankfully, the app allows some customization of the food order. Don't want that pickle on your hamburger? The app lets you remove it. That is the future.

 

[Timeisprecious]

I haven't read the article (sorry, I just don't like reading articles about w*rk) but it reminded me about a story I saw a couple of days ago about the best employers for the millennial generation. One of the companies towards the top was Chili's. So...working at a restaurant is a good place to be? I can say as a former Chili's employee (also known as a 'Chilihead') that I wouldn't consider ANY restaurant as a "great place to w*rk".

+1. I spent over a year working in a McDonald's as a teen - I still won't darken the door of a McD's.

 

[MichaelB]

In the 8 years since this thread first started my views on work and early retirement have not changed one bit. Regarding the original thread topic, I’m quite sure there is a robust future to work, but it won’t include me.

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

+1. I spent over a year working in a McDonald's as a teen - I still won't darken the door of a McD's.

McD was my first W-2 job. First day was taught how to mop by the store manager. I only really ate there if I could make my own food. Last time I ate at McD was June 2019 when I grabbed breakfast and coffee on a road trip (one cool thing with my expenditure logs from 1998-present is looking up weird stuff like this). Might be another 4 years before I go again as I usually brown bag my road trip meals. I can only do the breakfast sandwiches (probably because I was a closer and rarely worked breakfast shifts)!

 

[skyking1]

Mine was working on the family raspberry farm. It has been long enough, I may plant a couple of rows of berries at the new digs.
Ixnay on the enagerie-may though. Not doing the animal husbandry thing.
There are huge swaths of the year where the berries just do their thing.