Aggressive Financial Advisors

20 years ago or so, when I was working in Manhattan, I would periodically get calls from eager young fellows hoping to be my financial advisor (I must have been on some list or something). They would ask if they could come meet with me. Being a nice guy, I would book one of our conference rooms and meet with them for 30 minutes or so and let them make their pitch. Each time, I could see that they were clearly rookies, but I figured that they would benefit from perfecting their pitch even though it was certain I would say no. I was pleasant and attentive, and I did not resent the time I spent with them. In my view, they were just trying to make a living too.

And so it went. We'd meet, they'd pitch and I'd politely say no thanks. All except the time when I found this one guy to be just plain annoying, so I started asking questions to which he didn't know the answers. He tried to bluff his way through, until I stopped him and said "if you expect me to pay you to manage my finances, you have prove that you're smarter than I am and would make me more money than I could on my own. So far, you're not doing that." That guy left with his tail between his legs.
 
+1. The folks on this forum forget how much more comfortable we are with personal finance compared to most folks, even the successful ones.
+1

Just the other day I talked to a couple who were very well off financially. They were telling me how their FA had just informed them about this great way they could take their RMDs and not pay taxes. It was the via the charitable giving option that is often discussed at this site. They do give a lot to their church and other good causes. Smart as they were, they needed the FA to fill them in on that option
 
I have posted here a few times about my minor ordeal with a pushy Fido would-be advisor (Account Executive).

He tried to poach me from another AE during an AE change in 2009. Mr. Pushy wanted to take control of my portfolio, for a fee. He spent 2 hours trying to convince me; I told the office manager afterward I wanted a new AE. He switched me to another man who remained my AE (he was good) for 11 years before I got switched to another man in 2021. That man didn't last long, as he left Fido in 2022 but nobody told me. I found out when an email to him got bounced back to me. I told the office manager and he assigned me to another AE last July.
 
Our financial advisor is a CPA with a tax specialty. Plus the usual finacial planning designations. There was absolutely no pressure to move the entire portfolio over. The opposite was true.

It took me nine months of pre retirment time to find a FA that I was comfortable with and who possessed the skills and background that we wanted. As, or more important, my spouse had to be comfortable with him/her in the event that I got hit by a bus.

Lots of duds out there. When I started I asked a number of colleagues who they would recommend, what firms, etc. Surprisingly not one was particularely happy with their respective FA or FP. It has been 14 years now. Still have the same FA, same firm. He has given us some very good advice-investment, tax, and estate.

We did not need a FP in the true sense of the word. I have no trouble doing this. What I needed was good tax planning advice, good investment advice. With a fee structure that allowed us to easily review the cost/benefit equation.

There are too many clowns who have ended up in the business for one reason or another. We had two of them. One was a brokerage churner. The other was a bank advisor who was about as knowledgeable and as useful as a chocolate teapot. We quickly bailed on both.
 
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I tell them I have an MBA and specialized in applied math econometrics (the truth) along with MSEE and BSCS. I handle all of my own finances and investments and I feel I don't have any deficiencies in my current portfolio.

Northwestern Mutual screener has been calling me and I finally agreed to a 10 minute call next week with a sales team to hear them out. She insisted that they will not waste my time and are merely inquiring to see if there are any opportunities. I'm "taking one for the team" in this case as they are bothering a lot of my colleagues but nobody has taken the time to talk to them (in our internal Slack forums is where this is discussed) so I volunteered. I plan to record the call and inform them it is being recorded. If they terminate the call at that point, then so be it. If they agree I plan to scribe a transcript and put it on the internal forum for others' amusement. I have some things I want to ask them that I am very curious about, specifically what their commissions, loads, fees, rates and penalties are and make it very clear that this is required to initiate any further conversations. If we get past that I want to ask them about the specific structure of what they are proposing if I were to give them a million to manage, including time commitment, guaranteed yields as a function of overall market performance, maximum portfolio churn etc. If they persist I will ask them straight up if they can beat the S&P 500 and if so what are the assurances they can give me that they can do this?

I think I'm ready for them. I feel I'm pretty good at putting the knife into predators like this with a smile on my face in a very professional manner. It should be an interesting call. I did inform the screener that I will be asking a lot of very pointed questions and will expect straight answers.
Looking forward to the narrative. Sometimes you just have to call them on this stuff. Good luck
 
once or twice a year we get the Edward Jones people who knock on our door trying to pitch the Edward Jones overpriced funds. We have a no soliciting sign and the Edward Jones door to door people have a habit of ignoring it. I don't bother answering the door, not worth my time and if they cant read the no soliciting sign or ignore it then why would i buy their product? WE have cameras so we can decide if we want to answer the door or not , if its door to door sorry not sorry. Door to door has been dead to me since the 70's. My mom and dad bought a Kirby vacuum back in the mid 70's. Dad passed in 09 and Mom in 2014 so I inherited the Kirby and it still runs like new.
 
There are too many clowns who have ended up in the business for one reason or another. We had two of them. One was a brokerage churner. The other was a bank advisor who was about as knowledgeable and as useful as a chocolate teapot. We quickly bailed on both.
Dad tried getting into the field after he retired as a metallurgical engineer. He actually DID know investments- had been managing his own for 20 years or so. He really worked hard to build up a client base and spent a lot of time explaining various investment products to a nice older couple. When he followed up with them they told him that they'd talked to him because the nice lady at the bank wanted to sell them investments and she suggested they talk to someone at a brokerage to learn about them. A few others reported that when their CDs came due and they told the bank officer they planned to take the money and invest it at AG Edwards, the nice bank officer sold them investments instead.:mad:

He eventually got disillusioned at being pressured into selling whatever AG Edwards wanted to push. When he died at age 89 after 18 months in LTC (Mom had died 5 years earlier) I inherited $244,000. And that was one-fifth of the estate (I have 4 siblings). Yeah, he knew what he was doing.
 
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I worked for an independent, semi-retired CFP for a couple of years. Extremely well-regarded by his peers, and one of a very small list of financial experts in the state who are requested by attorneys (both prosecuting and defending) to testify in court.*

* A lot of otherwise qualified people don't like to be asked, as it requires reading all the documents involved in the lawsuit. He said that half the time, he had to tell the attorney that the claimant had no case, because they were using a broker whose only requirement was the infamous "suitability" risk assessment.

He has a select group of clients - a year before I came onboard, he "fired" 80% of them, sending them to other firms interested in taking them on. The customer service bar was very, very high there. It was quite an eye-opener to see how much hand-holding some of the widows needed; these were essentially our parents (my MIL was just like this), where the wife didn't work and the kids, if any, were grown and mostly lived well out of the area.

These widows had a valuable home and usually a big chunk of insurance $$$. They could budget for groceries but large sums and tax issues were out of their league. My ex-boss used to say half-jokingly that he spent half his time having to encourage retired clients that it was okay to now spend money on their own needs, and the other half having to rein in clients from spending too lavishly now but not looking to the future.

The latter, BTW, is VERY common for a widowed parent to give 'assistance' to one [grown] child or grandchildren who is always needy, but the other kids are getting zip and the parent is endangering their own future for when s/he hits their 80's and 90's.

The problem for almost all middle-class earners is that small accounts take as much time for an FA to manage as big accounts do - and very often more, because so much financial education is involved.

What most consumers do not realize is that really good firms actually don't do much, if any, "hard" advertising. They are getting clients as referrals or generational accounts. They prefer to be recognized by their peers rather than by "free dinner" seminars.

You don't use a good CFP to make the biggest investment gain. A good CFP is looking at your entire financial picture because they know, after talking with you, what your goals are. They want you to inform them when major lifestyle changes occur (death, marriage, birth, divorce) because they can be a resource when needed.

I contacted my ex-boss for a referral to three different firms when looking for a CFP to advise my MIL. I gave him our parameters (she definitely needed hand-holding if we weren't around!) and we eventually selected one of them, a independent firm which later we chose to handle our own retirement portfolio as well.

Do I need a firm to do my investing? No. I did it for our accounts for decades and achieved very good returns. But it does take time, and in retirement I didn't want to deal with it any longer. The firm handles our account in a tax-advantaged manner, and except for oversight, it's worry-free.

The CFP firm is our partner in continued financial planning. If you cannot or prefer not to have one, that's great and I'm happy for you. For us, having one relieves me of worries should I pass, because global finance trends is my interest, not my spouse's nor our heirs.

Using a firm is not cheap. But neither are serious financial mistakes, any number of which I have seen from the professional end.
 
Update: I took the call yesterday and had a nice chat. I explained my situation and they asked if I had CPA and legal advisors. I told them yes, told them the hourly retainer I was paying them and I told them in spite of $275-$400/hour that this is California and that is what professional advisement costs. Their only response is that they don't charge that much. I also told them when I talk to my advisors I have everything lined up because I know the timeclock is ticking and I don't waste time on small talk.

They moved to tax avoidance and tax planning. I told them my CPA takes care of that, he is a close friend since college and our professional relationship is just that, although we are friends when I'm on the clock he is my professional advisor and our friend-stuff is set aside. CPA and lawyers have some sort of ethics code that apparently draws this distinction and business is business is business.

They asked about my asset allocation, my cash position, retirement spending plan, etc. I told them having many times FI allows me to hold a high percentage in SP500 while being able to handle severe market corrections without degrading lifestyle so I'm satisfied with my high equity standing. I think they were getting the idea that there wasn't much room for them to maneuver at this point.

They asked me about my tax planning. I told them my CPA is working on that and informed me that I will always be in a high AGI situation for as long as I live and to accept that I will always be paying a lot of taxes and that there are plans for charitable contributions to be made based on how comfortable we are giving away money at points in our senior years.

I thanked them for reaching out, mentioned that many of my colleagues are clueless about their assets, many paying high management fees to firms like EJ and they assured me they are not that expensive. They asked how they can contact these colleagues I mentioned. I told them they need to just cold call and that I would never give out anyone's name or number so don't even go there. (they got my name off LinkedIn which I am OK with) as I have quite a network there (3000+ contacts) and that is how I stay in touch with ex-colleagues. I have papers published and a few patents but nothing else of note, they just pay for LinkedIn upgraded access and gain my contact information.
 
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