Airfare upgrade, I just can’t, but would you?

[Out of Steam]

While seat width is important, seat pitch is not so much. But seat recline is what contributes most to my comfort. Short of lie-flat, United and Delta seem to have ~7” recline according to Perplexity, which is best among US airlines. Unfortunately we fly Hawaiian the most which only have ~6” recline seats.

Most of the width difference between coach and premium economy is in the wider armrests, allowing room for broad shoulders--which I have in addition to fairly long legs.

After my wife and I traveled to Croatia last year, including a Washington-Dulles to Frankfurt leg, I decided that that an 8 hour flight was about my limit for traveling in coach. I have never traveled trans-Pacific, and would now not consider doing it in economy class.

 

[Koolau]

I'm not sure why you're surprised that most people won't pay $4600 instead of $1500?

I've thought about this before. I've been miserable at w*rk for months at a time (back in the day). On a flight, I might be miserable for 8 to 10 hours. I never got paid $3100 (difference between 1500 and 4600) for being miserable at w*rk. $3100 for 10 hours of misery seems like a pretty good deal (even in today's inflated numbers).

If someone said to me: "Hey. Here's $3100 and a coach class ticket for a 10 hour flight." I'd consider taking the flight for that much money. I used to mow lawns with a push mower (no engine) for $1.50/hour. $310/hr to sit in a cramped seat for 10 hours? Yeah. Well, maybe.

Just another way to look at the argument.

 

[Music Lover]

I've thought about this before. I've been miserable at w*rk for months at a time (back in the day). On a flight, I might be miserable for 8 to 10 hours. I never got paid $3100 (difference between 1500 and 4600) for being miserable at w*rk. $3100 for 10 hours of misery seems like a pretty good deal (even in today's inflated numbers).

If someone said to me: "Hey. Here's $3100 and a coach class ticket for a 10 hour flight." I'd consider taking the flight for that much money. I used to mow lawns with a push mower (no engine) for $1.50/hour. $310/hr to sit in a cramped seat for 10 hours? Yeah. Well, maybe.

Just another way to look at the argument.

I'm fit and have good muscle mass, therefore it's not misery to be in a lesser seat because I'm not uncomfortable.

 

[tutan]

Most of the width difference between coach and premium economy is in the wider armrests, allowing room for broad shoulders--which I have in addition to fairly long legs.

I never noticed. I thought it was just wider seats. It’s good not to have to rub elbows with a stranger seated next to you.

 

[Golden Mean]

I'm fit and have good muscle mass, therefore it's not misery to be in a lesser seat because I'm not uncomfortable.

For me the main issue is not so much seat comfort but, a) person in front of me reclining so I cannot use my laptop b) things so cramped it's a pain to get stuff out of your bag c) 3 people in a row instead of 2

The free booze, better meals and quieter section don't hurt either.

 

[Lorenzo]

For me the main issue is not so much seat comfort but, a) person in front of me reclining so I cannot use my laptop b) things so cramped it's a pain to get stuff out of your bag c) 3 people in a row instead of 2

The free booze, better meals and quieter section don't hurt either.

Yeah, the reclining of the seat in front of you changes the equation. Could be obviated by buying an Economy bulkhead or exit row seat, though.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, the reclining of the seat in front of you changes the equation. Could be obviated by buying an Economy bulkhead or exit row seat, though.

Economy plus is my sweet spot. Try it.

 

[CO-guy]

After months of seeing the upgrade for the segment between LAX and AKL at stay at $4,300+, two days ago it dropped to $2,500 and I bit.

How was the flight? Was it "worth it?"

I just flew Denver to Frankfurt in economy. I bid on a premium cabin but was unsuccessful. That said, I watched a total of 3 movies, listened to 2 podcasts with my eyes closed, and was served 2 meals and 2 snacks. I got up to walk around and use the lavatory after each movie/podcast and the next thing I knew we were landing in Frankfurt. No discomfort. I paid for a shower in the Frankfurt airport before my next flight and mustered the energy to attend a dinner party, although I left early. Now it's bedtime.

 

[anethum]

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I recently paid a semi-reasonable sum to fly business class on a night flight from Washington-Dulles to Casablanca on Royal Air Maroc. It was a fairly empty flight and the price increase to business class was about $950 (outbound flight only). I was one of just 7 business class passengers on a 787-800 with 18 business class seats. Before purchase, I had read comments and seen videos of RAM's 787-800 and 787-900 business classes. The 787-800 that I was on is poorly designed compared to the larger 787-900. My plane had 2-2-2 business class seating which was OK on my flight because the seat next to me as well as all of the seats around me were vacant.

Another reason I decided to try it is that the scheduled departure time was late evening so I'd be more likely to feel tired and fall asleep. My outbound ticket got me into the Turkish Airlines lounge at Dulles and I decided to eat dinner there. I like Turkish food and I don't like to lay down shortly after I eat, so eating before I boarded the plane worked out well. The flight attendants were surprised that I didn't want dinner.

I am not a big person but I found the flat bed quite uncomfortable. It was narrow, esp. at the feet, and the folds could be felt. Nevertheless, I actually slept for at least a couple of hours, which wouldn't have happened had I been sitting. I did eat the nice breakfast offered and we landed shortly thereafter. I had a connection to Marrakesh (just a 40 minute flight on a prop plane). I did function better that first day than I usually do after a sleepless night flight, but I still went to sleep early my first night in Morocco---7pm local time, and I slept for 11 hours. That's normal for me after a night flight.

I was in Economy on the daytime 8 hour flight home (a larger 787-900) and the middle seat in my row was empty, as it has been the last couple of times I've flown to Europe in steerage. On those flights, every seat in Business and the various Premium Economy sections was occupied, whereas I had an empty seat in plain-old Economy going to Paris. On my last flight to Paris last September, an outbound Business ticket was more than $6,000 additional to what I paid for my outbound Economy seat. Absurd, IMO.

The upshot? I'm glad I tried Business on an overnight flight. Yes, the experience was better, but for 7 hours of my life, $950 doesn't seem worth it to me. We all have our own priorities and things we'll splurge on. I'll splurge on a good meal (but I'll also happily try street food). But for air travel, just get me there safely and punctually.

 

[chemEguy]

I have a 6 hour cross country flight with my oldest in a few months. Paid $2800 for two round trip in United First, about $600 premium per person over coach.

Total no brainer.

My wife thinks I’m acting spoiled but what’s the point of having a bit of money if not to make yourself a little more comfortable? Comfy seats, decent breakfast, Bloody Mary, and indifference to any sitting on the tarmac? Check, check, and check.

 

[caninelover]

I’m with you. I have the money too, but why would I pay $12k for first class, 4k for business when I can fly economy for $750 and have $11k extra to actually enjoy a full month at the destination?

Drawing a line isn’t being frugal — it’s being rational.

This is my thinking also. The flight is, 14 hours or so? That is a lot of money per hour! Instead we extend our trip by or day or two at a nice hotel to decompress from the flight and acclimate. Even a luxury hotel is a bargain compared to first class airfare.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

This is my thinking also. The flight is, 14 hours or so? That is a lot of money per hour! Instead we extend our trip by or day or two at a nice hotel to decompress from the flight and acclimate. Even a luxury hotel is a bargain compared to first class airfare.

Different strokes for different folks

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I have a 6 hour cross country flight with my oldest in a few months. Paid $2800 for two round trip in United First, about $600 premium per person over coach.

Total no brainer.

My wife thinks I’m acting spoiled but what’s the point of having a bit of money if not to make yourself a little more comfortable? Comfy seats, decent breakfast, Bloody Mary, and indifference to any sitting on the tarmac? Check, check, and check.

I've also crossed the line as well. The line of die with zero. I'm not trying to die with zero but if I die with millions I'm going to be upset

 

[audreyh1]

In our case we’re not able to travel as often at the moment, so taking another trip instead is not an option. The clock is also ticking in terms of travel years left.

 

[CO-guy]

Having recently returned from a solo trip with transatlantic flights I wanted to add one other consideration to the value of cabin upgrades. Are you traveling solo or with others?

I bid 20k points to be waitlisted for United's Premium Plus seating in both directions. On the outbound flight from Denver, my bid was not accepted and I ended up with my preferred economy seat in a fully sold-out flight (aisle seat in the center section of a wide body). Even with de-icing, the flight landed on time and time flew by with 3 movies, meals being served, and a few podcasts to close my eyes some of the time. The person in the center seat got up twice, once per side, though I would have been happy to oblige any opportunity to stand for a bit. On the return trip, my 20k bid was accepted and I had an aisle seat in the center section of the Premium Plus cabin. My routine was the same: 3 movies, a few podcasts to close my eyes, meals, and standing up to stretch/restroom between each activity.

My take is that, obviously the Premium Plus seats are a bit more comfortable since they're wider with better padding, leg, and foot rests. Meals were decent but not tremendously different beyond real cutlery and cloth napkins. However, that one little skinny armrest separating me from the middle seat passenger in coach obviously belongs to the poor sap in the middle seat. That's not the case in Premium Plus where you've got your own armrest. Less of an issue on shorter flights or when I'm traveling with my better-half on longer flights, but it's hard to relax when there's nowhere to rest your arm comfortably.

 

[mwilson]

Premium Economy gets you enough space to use a laptop, sitting at the front of the plane, and some free booze. It's still coach. My problem with PE is that some - not all - passengers act more entitled, hogging arm rests, 100% recline the whole flight, try to use the first/biz class lavatory, etc. etc. as if they have paid for business class service. Sometimes to a degree I would have preferred to sit in back.

International business class is a game-changer if you're working. Set your watch at wheels up, sleep on the destination schedule, wake up fresh and as if nothing ever happened.

 

[CO-guy]

Premium Economy gets you enough space to use a laptop, sitting at the front of the plane, and some free booze. It's still coach. My problem with PE is that some - not all - passengers act more entitled, hogging arm rests, 100% recline the whole flight, try to use the first/biz class lavatory, etc. etc. as if they have paid for business class service. Sometimes to a degree I would have preferred to sit in back.

International business class is a game-changer if you're working. Set your watch at wheels up, sleep on the destination schedule, wake up fresh and as if nothing ever happened.

It's not just PE. It's Economy Plus or anyone towards the front. You get up to use the bathroom when you see it's vacant. Standing up, turning around and walking to the back of the plane to see if a restroom is vacant simply isn't practical. On both flights, FC had two restrooms up front and two more at the back of FC that were primarily used by PE and some folks from Economy. Even the amenities in those bathrooms were on brand for PE rather than FC.

I can't sleep on airplanes, even in the fully lie-flat seats, or I wake up "broken" in ways that can sometimes take days to recover. Besides, my camp mat has twice as much foam as Polaris. Seriously, it's like sleeping on a camp cot. Plus, noise canceling headphones are a flying essential for me and it's impossible as a side sleeper to wear them. YMMV, clearly, but for me Polaris and the like are a waste. Not saying we won't BTD at some point, but sleeping is not one of the benefits of FC for me.

 

[RunningBum]

Most airplanes have an indicator at the top of the bulkhead wall with the status of the lavs (occupied or open).

 

[tutan]

I can bring a seat cushion, a portable footrest, a full size pillow and pay a bit more to get extra legroom so I can really stretch out. Now if someone can come up with a portable armrest.

 

[CO-guy]

I can bring a seat cushion, a portable footrest, a full size pillow and pay a bit more to get extra legroom so I can really stretch out. Now if someone can come up with a portable armrest.

The "Economy Plus" seats I struggle to understand are the bulkhead rows where there's an emergency exit with the restroom wall forming the bulkhead. Most of the flight is spent with people standing in front of you waiting to use the toilet.