Airfare upgrade, I just can’t, but would you?

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I still say it's not the absolute price, or even the markup from a more basic level of service, but it's really about how much of an impact the cost of an upgrade has on the rest of your spending. If you can spend an extra $10K on an upgrade and it doesn't affect your other budgeting decisions, it's an easy choice. If it does affect you, it's just a question of by how much, and what you decide to prioritize. For some people it doesn't affect their spending, and for others it's an acceptable tradeoff, but either way it's not an inherently good or bad value.

 

[marko]

I was at a cocktail party where a woman was 'sharing' that ... 'if you're in Paris, you need to stay at the renovated blah-blah-blah hotel as its lobby is to die for.' I said, "well if it's so great, you could just waltz in from the street and enjoy the lobby for free.' Needless to say, she wasn't pleased.

Off-thread for a second, but many upscale hotels in Paris (and elsewhere) require one to clear with the doorman before being allowed in the lobby. You often must be a guest, have a reservation at the bar/restaurant or have other business there. You can't just waltz in. Its becoming more prevalent due to the increasing trend of street people.

Back to the 14 pages of thread.

 

[junkanoo]

I still say it's not the absolute price, or even the markup from a more basic level of service, but it's really about how much of an impact the cost of an upgrade has on the rest of your spending. If you can spend an extra $10K on an upgrade and it doesn't affect your other budgeting decisions, it's an easy choice. If it does affect you, it's just a question of by how much, and what you decide to prioritize. For some people it doesn't affect their spending, and for others it's an acceptable tradeoff, but either way it's not an inherently good or bad value.

If after travel expenses, you have more than you started out with, sure, and go with God.

Otherwise, that $10K you mentioned affected all of us. Because you could have invested that money, thereby impacting goals such as wealth management or charitable giving (or at the very least not be a drain on assets).

That doesn't mean that I'm suggesting how people should or shouldn't spend their money. But, we need to call a spade a spade. Spending more to get to the same destination is not a good value. Period.

We've been on 24 flights this year already. When traveling, we LOVE to ask fellow travelers about where they travel to and why and what remains on their bucket list. We get responses like: 'we want to travel the Silk Road' or 'we want to visit Japan' or 'we want to visit Mauritius. All good. But, whether you go business class or economy to Mauritius, you've arrived in Mauritius. However, the travel expense for the business class ticket just provided "an inherently" bad value for the money spent. No way around that.

We've done business class on long flights. However, I'm not pretending about the value equation. It's not perceived, it's real.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

If after travel expenses, you have more than you started out with, sure, and go with God.

Otherwise, that $10K you mentioned affected all of us. Because you could have invested that money, thereby impacting goals such as wealth management or charitable giving (or at the very least not be a drain on assets).

That doesn't mean that I'm suggesting how people should or shouldn't spend their money. But, we need to call a spade a spade. Spending more to get to the same destination is not a good value. Period.

So close....I agree with your second paragraph, but, respectfully, we're far apart on what you said in your third.

First, I agree that the impact of everything we do is global, and generally affects those closest to us the most, in a ripple effect. However, what I had in mind by the amount not making a difference in your spending included charitable giving and everything else. Our charitable giving comes first, then we determine our discretionary spending. Not everyone has to do it that way, but many of those that don't were probably not budgeting yearly donations. So what I guess I was trying to get at is that it's easy to choose to upgrade when the amount extra you spend on upgrading travel should not have a significant effect on ANY of the rest of your spending. (Of course, people with specific needs, like sleep or back issues, will value that comfort differently, but, as always, YMMV.)

As for the second part, in saying you alone determine what is or is not a good value, you definitely ARE suggesting how people should or shouldn't spend their money. And that's generally what we do here, throwing around our opinions about it and defending our reasons or preferences to people who differ, and I love it! But I was trying to think about it from more of a standpoint of behavioral economics. I have my own preferences, but I'm always curious about what drives the preferences of others.

 

[junkanoo]

So close....I agree with your second paragraph, but, respectfully, we're far apart on what you said in your third.

First, I agree that the impact of everything we do is global, and generally affects those closest to us the most, in a ripple effect. However, what I had in mind by the amount not making a difference in your spending included charitable giving and everything else. Our charitable giving comes first, then we determine our discretionary spending. Not everyone has to do it that way, but many of those that don't were probably not budgeting yearly donations. So what I guess I was trying to get at is that it's easy to choose to upgrade when the amount extra you spend on upgrading travel should not have a significant effect on ANY of the rest of your spending. (Of course, people with specific needs, like sleep or back issues, will value that comfort differently, but, as always, YMMV.)

As for the second part, in saying you alone determine what is or is not a good value, you definitely ARE suggesting how people should or shouldn't spend their money. And that's generally what we do here, throwing around our opinions about it and defending our reasons or preferences to people who differ, and I love it! But I was trying to think about it from more of a standpoint of behavioral economics. I have my own preferences, but I'm always curious about what drives the preferences of others.

If you wish to make a case of how flying Business Class versus economy is a better value for the money, make it. Otherwise, what are you doing other than mischaracterizing what I actually wrote?

 

[CO-guy]

I was at a cocktail party where a woman was 'sharing' that ... 'if you're in Paris, you need to stay at the renovated blah-blah-blah hotel as its lobby is to die for.' I said, "well if it's so great, you could just waltz in from the street and enjoy the lobby for free.' Needless to say, she wasn't pleased.

Btw, isn't it a bit telling that we get a 13-page thread on Travel Upgrades yet the Travel Subforum's thread on travel plans for 2026 is only 10 pages?

Maybe not Paris, but I learned a long time ago that it's much better to go to the Hotel del Coronado for drinks or lunch in order to take in the historic charm, rather than spend too much money trying to sleep in that rickety old place.

I posted on the 2026 travel forum and also added updates as my travel plans filled in for this year. For some of those trips I'll be sitting up front. For other trips I'll be sitting in economy. Given the number of folks that literally scowl at the FC passengers as they walk past during boarding, I've come to two conclusions:

1. Most passengers recognize the discomfort of economy seats and are resentful of those that don't endure it
2. Most passengers would select premium cabin seating if it was within their financial plans to do so

 

[Tetto]

I think I’ll just stay home and avoid it altogether!

 

[Fermion]

I think I’ll just stay home and avoid it altogether!

But think of all those disappointed viruses!

 

[Tetto]

But think of all those disappointed viruses!

Please. I’m on a cruise right now and I’ve been thinking about that a lot….just what I need!

 

[FD1000]

A couple of years ago, we bought two vehicles within a little over a year.
Why?
Most people would say this because they drive better, have more technology, are safer, and provide a better overall experience.
Sure, but those aren’t the real reasons.
The main reason is simple: our portfolio had grown by another million dollars. We had enough money and chose to spend some of it. That’s really it.
The other reasons are mostly excuses to justify the expense after the fact.
The truth is, the top 1-3% of products or experiences are rarely worth the massive jump in price. Manufacturers and service providers understand this well. They know that people with money will pay disproportionately more for marginal improvements, which is why prices keep climbing regardless of actual value.

 

[ImaCheesehead]

I was surprised to see this thread still going!

My flight to NZ was kind of a bust. I enjoyed the 8 hours at the Delta One lounge at LAX but even with an Ambien I only slept 1.5 hours between LAX and AKL. I guess I needed to stay awake to get the most value out of the seat. I did enjoy being able to stretch out though and not have anyone next to me.

Additionally, apparently there was a famous actor in the seat behind me that I never recognized. I heard people whispering about him on my way off the plane in Auckland.

 

[Koolau]

I was at a cocktail party where a woman was 'sharing' that ... 'if you're in Paris, you need to stay at the renovated blah-blah-blah hotel as its lobby is to die for.' I said, "well if it's so great, you could just waltz in from the street and enjoy the lobby for free.' Needless to say, she wasn't pleased.

Btw, isn't it a bit telling that we get a 13-page thread on Travel Upgrades yet the Travel Subforum's thread on travel plans for 2026 is only 10 pages?

DW and I always used to stay in the cheap hotels and then cruised the amazing lobbies of the expensive hotels. No charge!

 

[DrRoy]

We are starting to look at airfare to Japan for a trip we have booked next year. For business class it is looking like ~$10K+/- each.

 

[CO-guy]

Most people would say this because they drive better, have more technology, are safer, and provide a better overall experience.
Sure, but those aren’t the real reasons.
The main reason is simple: our portfolio had grown by another million dollars. We had enough money and chose to spend some of it. That’s really it.

Okay, the logic is clear now:

Other people's reasons are excuses and your excuses are reasons.

(Roger, Roger)

 

[CO-guy]

I was surprised to see this thread still going!

My flight to NZ was kind of a bust. I enjoyed the 8 hours at the Delta One lounge at LAX but even with an Ambien I only slept 1.5 hours between LAX and AKL. I guess I needed to stay awake to get the most value out of the seat. I did enjoy being able to stretch out though and not have anyone next to me.

Additionally, apparently there was a famous actor in the seat behind me that I never recognized. I heard people whispering about him on my way off the plane in Auckland.

We have the same issue with not being able to fall asleep. Laying awake on your side isn't uncomfortable, but being unable to sleep changes the value equation.

 

[pacergal]

We tried FC once, for our "retirement celebration trip". DH was able to enjoy the destination from the moment he stepped off the plane, instead of having back pain for a couple days recovery.
Have never gone back to any other seat. Fly FC all the time now. It's priceless for DH health and enjoyment of travel.
We may travel less, due to costs, but the pay off is worth it to us.

We made an exception of using FC only on our flight to Hawaii last month. I wanted to use our companion fare from Atmos/Alaska before it expired, learned you can't upgrade from basic to anything beyond premium economy, so that's what we got, with aisle seats across from each other. Thought we'd give it a try.
The knee space was nice, but the seats were much harder than the ones in first class! We got off the plane with DH lower back aching and my hip arthritis not happy.
We both decided that FC is it for us, for sure, with the exception of using the companion fare for a short flight (less than 2 hours). Most of the time, our companion fare does not get used each year anyway.
Happy Travels everyone, no matter how you go! Enjoy your time.

 

[marko]

Y'know, all you former "I'd never pay for FC" people are going to ruin it for us full-timers! Sounds like a growing trend here.

It'll get more expensive with fewer available seats. I'm beginning to regret having been an advocate!

(Kidding of course...)

 

[FD1000]

Okay, the logic is clear now:

Other people's reasons are excuses and your excuses are reasons.

(Roger, Roger)

Your real main reason is the excess of money and willing to spend it, not the experience.
If my flight to Europe goes from $1K to $5K, I will not fly.
If yours goes from $6K to $10K, even $12K, you will fly.
First class used to be 4X more than economy 1-2 decades ago. It is 8X+ now.

Last year, one of the bridge players I play with turned 80, and her son hosted a birthday party for her. His huge house near the lake, the vehicles, watch collection and the boat were impressive. I asked him to give me and a few others a tour.
What stood out most was how honest he was. He simply said he buys expensive things because he can afford them and has the money to do it.
If someone buys a $1 billion yacht, it’s usually not about the experience alone. At that level, the main factor is simply having enough money to spend on something most people could never justify.
The experience matters, of course, but the purchase is only possible because of the scale of wealth. Beyond a certain point, luxury spending becomes less about value and more about the ability and willingness to afford it.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Your real main reason is the excess of money and willing to spend it, not the experience.
If my flight to Europe goes from $1K to $5K, I will not fly.
If yours goes from $6K to $10K, even $12K, you will fly.

Last year, one of the bridge players I play with turned 80, and her son hosted a birthday party for her. His huge house near the lake, the vehicles, watch collection and the boat were impressive. I asked him to give me and a few others a tour.
What stood out most was how honest he was. He simply said he buys expensive things because he can afford them and has the money to do it.
If someone buys a $1 billion yacht, it’s usually not about the experience alone. At that level, the main factor is simply having enough money to spend on something most people could never justify.
The experience matters, of course, but the purchase is only possible because of the scale of wealth. Beyond a certain point, luxury spending becomes less about value and more about the ability and willingness to afford it.

But of course, you have to be able to afford to pay for business class/first class in the first place. If you have to decide on paying for food on the table vs. flying first class, it is a no brainer on how you would spend your money.

You and I may have the same amount of money in the bank. I put high value on comfort and I am willing to pay more for it. Basically, you don't put high value on comfort. Very simply put.

 

[Music Lover]

I put high value on comfort and I am willing to pay more for it. Basically, you don't put high value on comfort. Very simply put.

Maybe for some the increased comfort is negligible.

 

[FD1000]

But of course, you have to be able to afford to pay for business class/first class in the first place. If you have to decide on paying for food on the table vs. flying first class, it is a no brainer on how you would spend your money.

You and I may have the same amount of money in the bank. I put high value on comfort and I am willing to pay more for it. Basically, you don't put high value on comfort. Very simply put.

If you pay $2K instead of $1K, you can reasonably argue it’s for added comfort. But when you pay $8K, comfort becomes a much smaller factor. At that point, the real reason is simply how much money you have and how much you’re willing to spend.
When you spend $120K on a vehicle, instead of $50K, the logic is the same.

 

[RetiredHappy]

If you pay $2K instead of $1K, you can reasonably argue it’s for added comfort. But when you pay $8K, comfort becomes a much smaller factor. At that point, the real reason is simply how much money you have and how much you’re willing to spend.

You still don't get it. I am willing to pay $8K instead of $1K for comfort because comfort is very high on my priority of wants. For you, comfort is not as highly valued as mine.

A parallel example, we are going on a golf cruise next year with Azamara. We booked their largest suite, the World Owner's Suite. It cost several times more than a regular veranda cabin, an oceanview cabin or an inside cabin. Why? We want the extra space and comfort. It does not mean that my bank account is larger than yours. Can we afford it? Sure. Can you afford it if you were to book the same cruise? I am sure you can too but you won't because comfort is not of high value to you.

 

[Chuckanut]

Maybe for some the increased comfort is negligible.

And for some, increased comfort on the plane comes with a high opportunity cost on arrival.

In my case once I have enough legroom for the flight, that’s good enough. If I had the $8000 for first class I would spend it on a nicer, better appointed and located room for example. As mentioned earlier, I spend maybe 20 hours on a plane there and back. But, many more hours are spent in the hotel room, getting from here to there on the ground, etc. Even a better hotel breakfast is worth it if I don’t have to stop for lunch later on.

For me, comfort is knowing I can stay an other week at the mountain resorts and beaches of Lower Slobovia if I choose to do so.

 

[Music Lover]

And for some, increased comfort on the plane comes with a high opportunity cost on arrival.

In my case once I have enough legroom for the flight, that’s good enough. If I had the $8000 for first class I would spend it on a nicer, better appointed and located room for example.

For $8000 we could have stayed in our Mazatlán rental for 6 months instead of 3. Or found a much more luxurious rental.

 

[marko]

You still don't get it. I am willing to pay $8K instead of $1K for comfort because comfort is very high on my priority of wants. For you, comfort is not as highly valued as mine.

A parallel example, we are going on a golf cruise next year with Azamara. We booked their largest suite, the World Owner's Suite. It cost several times more than a regular veranda cabin, an oceanview cabin or an inside cabin. Why? We want the extra space and comfort. It does not mean that my bank account is larger than yours. Can we afford it? Sure. Can you afford it if you were to book the same cruise? I am sure you can too but you won't because comfort is not of high value to you.

+1. These things are lifestyle issues. For many, FC and a large suite and a car service when traveling is just "the way we live" and would be uncomfortable and inconvenienced if it were anything less.

Some people have a higher tolerance for discomfort and inconvenience regardless of affordability mainly because they put a price tag on everything instead of the value tag. The money is always, always more important no matter how its phrased.

My grandfather was worth mid 8 figures but when he broke his hip, he called me (an hour away) because the call to LifeLine was a 35 cent long distance call. (Really)

Sadly, I've yet to see a cure for this condition.