Airfare upgrade, I just can’t, but would you?

[brett]

A number of years ago we booked economy to Singapore. 17.5 hours from SFO.

Two weeks prior to blast off we bid on United business/lie down seats one way. We won a low bid. Huge cost delta between our bid and their price when we originally booked.

Not certain if the airlines do this any more. We are flying Cathay Pacific to KL in a few weeks. Two shorter flights instead of one very long one. If they auction, we will bid.

 

[audreyh1]

I haven’t had the tube experience in international business class lie flat seats, and I’m able to sleep on my side. Never been able to do that otherwise.

 

[NanoSour]

Fortunately my DW and I are small people, 155 & 105lbs respectively. The way I see it is I'm just as comfortable as the larger folks in larger seats. However, I will pay $75 for the airline lounge if the layover is greater that 3 hours, which happens more often than one would imagine.

 

[RunningBum]

I would not fly economy for such a long flight. So I don't compare economy cost to other classes, I look at the cost of those higher classes and decide whether I want to fly to those places. Premium economy might be acceptable. I haven't really considered such a long flight in quite a while and I'd have to see what that class looks like for the airlines that fly to wherever I'm going.

Actually I might look at how crowded flights get. Haven't the seat next to me open could be attractive in any class.

 

[CO-guy]

On a trip to Japan on United this past year we upgraded to their "Premium Plus" cabin. The seats felt like an extra comfortable version of a domestic FC seat with calf support, a foot rest and additional recline in a 2 across configuration. Neither my better-half nor I are able to sleep on flights, so the lie flat is wasted on us, but the added padding and additional recline made for a more comfortable experience.

In contrast, on our flights to/from Rome this summer we stuck with economy/cattle. Definitely less comfortable than the premium seating after +10 hours, but we had no issues passing the time without discomfort.

 

[mrfeh]

One of the frequent comments to those who are being too frugal and not enjoying their money is to upgrade to business or lie flat seats when they fly.

I am flying one way to New Zealand next month and business is more than10 times the price of economy. 10x!!!!! That price is for domestic business for the first two flights and a lie flat seat for the 13.5 hour flight from LAX to AKL.

I ended up purchasing Delta premium economy a few months ago at $1,500, when plain economy was priced at $500, and business class was $7000. I can upgrade just the LAX to AKL like to a lie flat for an additional $4300, or about an extra $300 an hour above and beyond what I’ve already paid.

I just can’t do it. I have the money, but I just cannot bring myself to cave into Delta’s ridiculous pricing.

I mean, you have to draw a line somewhere right?

Yup, I agree with you.

Could I afford to pay for that upgrade? Yeah, but the value proposition isn't there for me.

 

[ImaCheesehead]

On a trip to Japan on United this past year we upgraded to their "Premium Plus" cabin. The seats felt like an extra comfortable version of a domestic FC seat with calf support, a foot rest and additional recline in a 2 across configuration. Neither my better-half nor I are able to sleep on flights, so the lie flat is wasted on us, but the added padding and additional recline made for a more comfortable experience.

In contrast, on our flights to/from Rome this summer we stuck with economy/cattle. Definitely less comfortable than the premium seating after +10 hours, but we had no issues passing the time without discomfort.

That sounds just like the Delta Premium economy that I booked. I hope it is ok because Delta is NOT going to win the revenue extraction game with me.

 

[Texas Proud]

My upgrade is to spend miles to get to better seats... or wait to see if they auction them off...

I did not go for lay flat first, but some premium economy that has seats like domestic first class... really nice..

 

[Fermion]

I wouldn't take a flight that long coach OR first class. Just download some pictures of the destination in 4k and spend the $12,000 locally on something nice.

 

[Golden Mean]

My M.O. would be to make budgeting the flight I desire, part of the booking process.

In other words, if I can't fly in comfort for a reasonable amount of $$, and find attractive accommodations at a reasonable rate, for that same time frame, I wouldn't travel.

 

[dobig]

Oh and you are also less likely to have a screaming infant within 2 rows, or a 4 year old kicking the back of your seat. Business/First isn't immune to these of course, but they seem to be less frequent events. A 12 hour flight next to a toddler requires...sedation (for me or the baby? You decide).

I think we might be related. The idea of enduring hours of high pitched screaming in a confined space has kept me from flying for more than 10 years. I just can't do it.

 

[planuntilthefisthits]

One of the frequent comments to those who are being too frugal and not enjoying their money is to upgrade to business or lie flat seats when they fly.

I am flying one way to New Zealand next month and business is more than10 times the price of economy. 10x!!!!! That price is for domestic business for the first two flights and a lie flat seat for the 13.5 hour flight from LAX to AKL.

I ended up purchasing Delta premium economy a few months ago at $1,500, when plain economy was priced at $500, and business class was $7000. I can upgrade just the LAX to AKL like to a lie flat for an additional $4300, or about an extra $300 an hour above and beyond what I’ve already paid.

I just can’t do it. I have the money, but I just cannot bring myself to cave into Delta’s ridiculous pricing.

I mean, you have to draw a line somewhere right?

Only you know where the line must be drawn. It sounds like you are in some kind of competition with Delta, where you won't let them "win."

I won't voluntarily fly anything but business or first, regardless of flight length. Been in economy too much in my life.

If you don't fly first/business, your heirs will.....

My DW and I cut our teeth in International First Class (IFC) early using United miles that we acquired from business travel and personal spend. We used to be able to fly free each year in IFC. This really spoiled us because it is even hard to adjust to present-day business seats, which are relatively cramped compared to the good ole days of IFC. Of course, now there are very few carriers that have true IFC. ANA has a great IFC product that we were able to get with reasonable miles, but I have avoided paying 3X the cost of business for this product. We all have our limits.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

So summer 2024 i was waffling about business and economy. I got business by miles for me and the kids and booked DH cash. That was pretty much it for us. After that I booked business or front of the plane. This holiday I wanted to use my alaska companion fare for mexico and I didn't pay cash for the upgrade. And we were upgraded free return more than 30 days out because of status. So i was holding out.

Boy did i regret not spending that upgrade cash. This year 2026, i just gave in and booked everything front of the plane for us and the kids on every trip. DH is spoiled and used to getting upgraded. This most recent trip for work he booked really last minute and got stuck in economy. He was like it was awful and it was a 2 hour flight. No first class available to book.

Can't take it with you. At least that's how i'm looking at it now. We can't spend everything we have. I also started upgrading my mom and she's getting used to it fast. Past 2 roundtrips have been first class. She's getting picky about A330 versus dreamliner. I just nod and say um hmm. No point in telling her I'm been paying for the ugprades. She's not going to spend her portfolio. I'm going to help her do it by spending my money.

For our trip I told her I booked us business to europe, private tours and car, and a nice hotel. Guess she'll see how some of you travel. I'm also getting hooked on expensive hotels.

 

[audreyh1]

I would not fly economy for such a long flight. So I don't compare economy cost to other classes, I look at the cost of those higher classes and decide whether I want to fly to those places. Premium economy might be acceptable. I haven't really considered such a long flight in quite a while and I'd have to see what that class looks like for the airlines that fly to wherever I'm going.

Actually I might look at how crowded flights get. Haven't the seat next to me open could be attractive in any class.

I haven’t been on a flight with open seats in a long, long time. I think the airlines have gotten very very good at filling their planes completely. And we usually fly on the less busy days of Tuesday or Wednesday. Airports may be less busy but the planes are still full.

 

[Onda]

Airlines usually just break even, or even lose money, on economy seats. Most of their real profits come from premium economy and business class.

Premium passengers effectively subsidize economy fares. Without premium cabins, economy tickets would likely be more expensive or routes would disappear.

 

[bonvoyage]

Airlines usually just break even, or even lose money, on economy seats. Most of their real profits come from premium economy and business class.

Premium passengers effectively subsidize economy fares. Without premium cabins, economy tickets would likely be more expensive or routes would disappear.

No kidding - in the new Boeing 787-9 aircraft that United is getting this year, the premium cabins comprise most of the plane! They have no less than 64 business class seats, and 35 premium economy (which are basically equivalent to domestic first class). But only 123 economy seats. These planes will be used for most of the long haul routes to Asia.

The other interesting aspect of the move to premium seats is that they are mostly filled with paying passengers. In the past, premium seats were mostly used as rewards for loyal customers but not any longer. Its getting much harder to get complementary upgrades.

 

[Fermion]

I asked AI to show me what the current trend of economy class seating sections on airplanes looked like:

 

[Onda]

No kidding - in the new Boeing 787-9 aircraft that United is getting this year, the premium cabins comprise most of the plane!

Possible. Google is saying: (
Every airline claims the plane is “mostly premium economy and business.”
Funny how, when I board, 80% of the passengers are still doing yoga just to fit their knees.)


Wide-Body Seating Examples (Long-Haul)

Airline	Aircraft	Business	Premium Economy	Economy	Total
United Airlines	Boeing 787-9	48	21	188	257
Delta Air Lines	Airbus A350-900	32	48	226	306
Singapore Airlines	A350-900 (Long Haul)	42	24	192	258
Lufthansa	Boeing 747-8	80	32	244	364*
Emirates	Airbus A380 (2-Class)	58	0	557	615

 

[OldConch]

Possible. Google is saying: (
Every airline claims the plane is “mostly premium economy and business.”
Funny how, when I board, 80% of the passengers are still doing yoga just to fit their knees.)


Wide-Body Seating Examples (Long-Haul)

Airline	Aircraft	Business	Premium Economy	Economy	Total
United Airlines	Boeing 787-9	48	21	188	257
Delta Air Lines	Airbus A350-900	32	48	226	306
Singapore Airlines	A350-900 (Long Haul)	42	24	192	258
Lufthansa	Boeing 747-8	80	32	244	364*
Emirates	Airbus A380 (2-Class)	58	0	557	615

The seat map for your first example, a United 787-9 with 48 business class seats, shows business and premium economy cabins extend beyond the wing towards the rear of the plane. So, 73% of passengers have to walk past the wing before taking a seat.

 

[mystang52]

Comparing cost of coach to upgraded seats is a losing proposition from the get-go, because one can easily argue "it's not worth it." We, over the last 7 years or so, only fly first class domestic, premium on international. We're also now at the stage where 9 hour flight is our maximum. Only way we would fly further would be if we could stop over somewhere nice for a couple of days. I just look at the cost of the [upgraded] airline seats as part of total vacation cost.

 

[Lorenzo]

Airlines usually just break even, or even lose money, on economy seats. Most of their real profits come from premium economy and business class.

Premium passengers effectively subsidize economy fares. Without premium cabins, economy tickets would likely be more expensive or routes would disappear.

The experience/comfort level of premium economy is what you used to get with ordinary economy. As most of us have been flying since decades ago, upgrading to premium economy just keeps our experience more or less the same as it used to be. It's hardly an "upgrade"--it's keeping what you got used to. The price of that has increased just like the price of other services.

The really comfy seats up front have increased even more, as airlines have made them the major profit center. Meanwhile, ordinary economy seats have remained relatively inexpensive, though they have shrunk in legroom, checked baggage may not be included in the price, etc. Another example of shrinkflation.

 

[foxcreek9]

We are heading to NZ next week. We are flying to HNL (prem economy) from ORD and spending a couple of nights in Waikiki, then flying Hawaiian Air to Auckland (standard economy but in a 2-4-2 layout, which for us makes economy more pleasant). A little more expensive this way, but hopefully more relaxed.

 

[audreyh1]

We are heading to NZ next week. We are flying to HNL (prem economy) from ORD and spending a couple of nights in Waikiki, then flying Hawaiian Air to Auckland (standard economy but in a 2-4-2 layout, which for us makes economy more pleasant). A little more expensive this way, but hopefully more relaxed.

How many flying hours is NZ from Hawaii?

 

[OldConch]

How many flying hours is NZ from Hawaii?

9

Google Flights

www.google.com

 

[bonvoyage]

The seat map for your first example, a United 787-9 with 48 business class seats, shows business and premium economy cabins extend beyond the wing towards the rear of the plane. So, 73% of passengers have to walk past the wing before taking a seat.

Those are the current 787-9. The new ones ie the ones being delivered this year with the "Elevated" interior have the high-J configuration.

See this layout diagram

And this video