Alzheimers help?

[OldGuy]

I agree. The one that gets me is the counting backwards in increments of 7. Just trying to do that in my head, I'm struggling. I wonder how many people actually pass that question.

Our individual responses the last time we were asked to do this was, “Are you kidding? That’s just dumb. Can you do it?” The tester never asked again.

 

[rmcelwee]

I've always been worried about getting Alzheimer's and recently watched a show about a big study they did on "old people" where they interviewed and metally/physically tested them each year for decades. When the subjects died they removed their brain for testing. There was one person who's brain was full of plaque who did wonderful on the tests. There was another who had no plaque and didn't know who they were. I'm convinced, after watching this, that the plaque thing means nothing. I'm sure a google search with a few keywords I typed above would find the video.

 

[Koolau]

What is frustrating to me is that people have been researching Alz. for a very long time now. It appears that we have some pieces of the puzzle but little idea of how to put them together in such a way that we can prevent or slow Alz. in any consistent way. I recall sitting in a presentation in the late 80's in which they were "this close" to a "real" treatment for Alz. FF 35 years and, yes, there is some progress, but no significant breakthroughs. Nearly as I can tell, they really don't know if plaque causes Alz or is a symptom of Alz.

When you consider what people would pay for a "pill" that would treat or cure Alz, you know that the research must be going full bore. But, so far, not much practical in the way of treatment has been found. And here I sit wondering each time I forget a word - is this IT? Is this the dreaded diagnosis of the disease that took both my parents?

 

[audreyh1]

60 Minutes has a piece on an experimental treatment involving ultrasound. Opens the blood-brain barrier, then drugs remove the plaque more efficiently.

Neurosurgeon works to slow Alzheimer's progression, treat addiction with cutting-edge technology

That’s very interesting. But that web page was overheating my iPad! Crazy ads!

 

[Badger]

If I didn't wear a digital watch I would never know the day or date. But sometimes I forget that is where I can find out.

 

[bingybear]

I'm living with a form of Alzheimer's known as posterior cortical atrophy I'm in my 60s but there are people that are in their 30s that have this version of Alzheimer's but it's rare Be aware that you are Under 30 that have It it so you can't be just paste on age
this same disease so you're not

 

[skyking1]

A good and careful doctor is not going to diagnose dementia simply based on the results of the MMSE. "Oh, 21? Here's your dementia diagnosis. See ya!"

When my father was diagnosed, the doctor did include much of the MMSE. But he also interacted with my Dad for a good 45 minutes. He did a complete health history and physical examination and medication review. He listened to my input and concerns. In my Dad's case the internist happened to be a new doctor to my Dad because his previous internist had retired, but in an ideal world, a potential dementia patient would meet with their doctor for years and so the doctor would form a baseline impression. IIRC in our conversation the doctor was paying attention to reported changes from baseline too - "Dad used to be able to manage his medications but has had mistakes lately" and "Dad always paid his bills on time but now there's a messy pile" and "Dad's making more reminder notes for himself and is forgetting things he normally would remember."

I'll also add that at least in my Dad's case, we were wondering about dementia for a while before his diagnosis. Then it become abundantly clear over the past two years or so. Mostly it's just been supportive type care and no specific treatments, and since we would have done that stuff anyway, the diagnosis mostly just helps us understand what's going on and maybe deal with it in a better way.

It's worth mentioning to anyone still reading that it's important to rule out other stuff that can result in dementia-like symptoms but are treatable conditions. I think the biggest one in the elderly is UTIs, but there are others. Obviously one would want to identify and treat anything treatable before resigning themselves to dementia.

I think the biggest one in the elderly is UTIs, but there are others.

It's really remarkable how off the wall Someone can be with a UTI when they are elderly.
My brother-in-law thought they were trying to put his urine back in him with the drip IV and wanted that out of his arm ASAP. This is a guy that knows about medicine.

 

[tomc5179]

For those with Alzheimer's or those who are wondering, I recommend the following book. I don't have Alzheimer's, but am well acquainted with it and I can say exercise, diet (Mediterranean), sleep and whatever you can do to keep your mind creative and busy has seemed to work well for the author.

Still Me - Amazon link

 

[motley]

I agree. The one that gets me is the counting backwards in increments of 7. Just trying to do that in my head, I'm struggling. I wonder how many people actually pass that question.

I think it is (or should be) less a question of how well one does it vs comparing how well one does it earlier vs later. Some people simply aren't good with numbers that way. The whole point is to measure change.

My family doesn't have a history but this worries me too. In recent years I've noticed declines that scare the hell out of me. For ex. I'm a writer and my spelling, grammar, proofreading, etc has always been impeccable (for work, I quickly add! I don't pay as much attention or care when chatting online, personal emails, etc)...but lately I catch myself making mistakes I wouldn't have made in grammar school. Can't I just live to an 80+ age and have a nice quick heart attack?

 

[motley]

I just ask Alexa. She always knows the day and the date!

Oh man. You joke but I can see that in the future (I'm half-joking, half not):

"Alexa, what's the date?"
"Alexa, where am I?"
"Alexa, WHO am I?"
"Alexa, have I peed yet today?"

 

[motley]

while an MMSE might be a general indicator I would not take the results as "absolute truth".

Out of curiousity I looked this up, along with the "new and improved" SMMSE. Frankly I would take either with a grain of salt. Useful? Maybe, but far from some definitive guide. IMO someone who has trouble with this test probably has already shown far more obvious signs.

 

[Calico]

Oh man. You joke but I can see that in the future (I'm half-joking, half not):

"Alexa, what's the date?"
"Alexa, where am I?"
"Alexa, WHO am I?"
"Alexa, have I peed yet today?"

I wasn't joking.

 

[motley]

I highly recommend you check out Dr. Terry Wahls and her approach to treating neurodegenerative diseases. She cured herself from multiple sclerosis.

She was featured on Cleveland Clinic’s website, which adds a lot of credibility to her approach!

Curious, I searched on their web site. She is not featured anywhere. With all due respect, I'd be quite leery of any such grandiose claims. I've seen such things 100 times over with "miracle cancer cures."

 

[motley]

For those with Alzheimer's or those who are wondering, I recommend the following book. I don't have Alzheimer's, but am well acquainted with it and I can say exercise, diet (Mediterranean), sleep and whatever you can do to keep your mind creative and busy has seemed to work well for the author.

Still Me - Amazon link

Any general good health things I would think can only help to slow the onset. I have also heard (but cannot say for sure of course) that things like crossword puzzles or other puzzles and things which "force" you to really think can be helpful.

 

[A Gold One]

I was at a family function about a week ago & one family member said they are in a research program that will remove the plaque in your brain that Alzheimer's creates. Both my Mom & Dad passed at age 85 from Alzheimer's 6 & 7 years ago. As such I feel doomed at 68. I went in today for the initial consult. 7 or 8 pages of medical questions, then into a staffer to do some testing (aka MMSE...aka the "clock" test). If you don't know the clock test is a request from the tech to draw an analog clock with all the numbers. then the tech asks you to draw a time on the clock...aka 2:40. It's infamous in the memory care world.

MMSE is 30 questions. Count backwards from 100 by 7's, repeat a list of 3-6 words, testor names a list of 15 or so words that are related & then ask to repeat as many as you can, etc. So I did that at the intake. This was sobering as there were several questions I "failed" in my mind. Looking on the internet a score of 24 or below is mild cognitive decline.

Then was passed off to a Dr. we discussed my daily activities, trouble driving?, what do you do all day, what do you have planned, etc. He called my state as mild cognitive decline. Without the history of both parents having ALZ he would not be worried. Then he explained that they can now discover the amount of brain plaque via blood draw. And provide a treatment (clinical trial) to remove the plaque. So after our trip to Italy I am signed up to start onto this trial.

I am both saddened & hopefully optimistic

I have a friend with a tragic family history of early (50's and 60's) deaths from this disease. Parents and Siblings have already succombed. He told me he was just recently enrolled in a similar sounding clinical trial at UCSF Medical center.

 

[audreyh1]

It seems like recent research indicates a problem with the brain waste disposal system initially have waste build up in some brain cells and then plaques developing outside of cells later.

Evidence Mounts for Alternate Origins of Alzheimer’s Disease Plaques

 

[MarieIG]

More recent updates in research The Protective Effect of IDO1 Inhibition in Aβ-Treated Neurons and APP/PS1
Mice .

Relative to the above - the potential repurposing of a drugs being developed for cancer treatment for Alzheimer's patients. Cancer drug could treat early-stage Alzheimer’s disease, study shows | Penn State University

And a short discussion regarding these findings:

 

[audreyh1]

Nick Norwitz is a great resource for videos about metabolism.

I also found this about IDO1 inhibition: https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-...ic-brain-boost-revives-memory-alzheimers-mice

 

[MarieIG]

Nick Norwitz is a good resource for videos about metabolism.

Nick Norwitz is a great resource for videos about metabolism.

I also found this about IDO1 inhibition: https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-...ic-brain-boost-revives-memory-alzheimers-mice

I first became aware of Nick Norwitz via his Dave Feldman connection.

I am now wondering how long this would take to get to human trials . . .

 

[audreyh1]

There are pathways around glycolysis to still get energy to neurons in the brain even in someone with impaired brain glucose metabolism. The brain readily takes up ketones and uses them (instead of starving) and some promising research is using this approach.

Since the drug is already established as an anti-cancer drug with its own trials completed I suppose, we can hope it won’t take so long.

 

[target2019]

That’s very interesting. But that web page was overheating my iPad! Crazy ads!

30 trackers, ads and more blocked by my browser. It's incredible what we venture into with a simple click of a link nowadays.

Since it is a 60 Minutes interview, the video is available on Paramount+.

I'll have to read this later today.

 

[audreyh1]

30 trackers, ads and more blocked by my browser. It's incredible what we venture into with a simple click of a link nowadays.

Since it is a 60 Minutes interview, the video is available on Paramount+.

I'll have to read this later today.

Yeah, I don’t have Paramount+ otherwise I would have watched the video.

 

[FedRetired50]

That’s very interesting. But that web page was overheating my iPad! Crazy ads!

Also available here, on youtube:

 

[shafer9]

I agree. The one that gets me is the counting backwards in increments of 7. Just trying to do that in my head, I'm struggling. I wonder how many people actually pass that question.

Lol. I have taken the Montreal test a bunch of times. The counting back thing always drove me crazy. Then it occurred to me if I take each as a subset of 10. So I subtract 10 from 100, which is 90. Add the missing three and it’s 93. So far so good. Next I take 10 away from the 93 and I got 83; add three more and you have 86. And on and on and on. It’s a ridiculous way to do it, totally idiotic, but it works, and it makes me much more relaxed, and I still get the answer.

Now if I could just do something about those damn five words that I have to parrot back to the guy a few minutes later, then I’d be in better shape.

 

[braumeister]

Now if I could just do something about those damn five words that I have to parrot back to the guy a few minutes later, then I’d be in better shape.

It's really easier than you think.
When they give you the words, just create a mental picture, the more bizarre the better.
So if the words are "table, dime, chair" then picture (for example) a picnic table in a park with an enormous dime sitting on it, maybe a foot across and big enough that you can see FDR's portrait on it from five feet away. Then place a chair, maybe a rocking chair, sitting on top of the table and covering the dime.
Concentrate for a couple of seconds on that scene: picnic table, huge dime, chair on it.
When you're asked later for the three words, the picture will pop into your mind and you'll confidently reply "table dime chair" and the tester will think you actually have quite a few of your marbles left.

This is the mental technique used by practically every memory expert, and how they manage to remember long lists of things.