Any VT Divorcees Here? Advice Please

[skipro33]

I'm with the majority here; walk away and count your blessings. IF and that's a big IF, I were in your shoes and wanted to ask him for anything, it would be a fully paid-up life insurance policy for X amount of dollars with you as beneficiary. The idea is that you will celebrate when the rat dies some day and give him some thought about how he might treat someone in the future who would benefit from his death.

I'm unsure about applying for Social Security though based on his earnings. Others here might chime in about that possibility; using his SS while yours grows to full maximum.

 

[TheWizard]

I'm unsure about applying for Social Security though based on his earnings. Others here might chime in about that possibility; using his SS while yours grows to full maximum.

I did that starting in 2016 but for many folks, it's not feasible anymore, due to a change in law...

 

[martyp]

A 50/50 split of assets acquired during a marriage sounds pretty standard. If you got better than 50/50 then you should take it unless your lawyer says you should fight it. While you have been the responsible breadwinner you also acknowledge that your circumstances are not the norm. The 50/50 standard was put in place to protect ex-wives and plenty of men complain about it bitterly as you have. This is the sacrifice and risk you take when you agree to marry.

 

[njhowie]

A 50/50 split of assets acquired during a marriage sounds pretty standard. If you got better than 50/50 then you should take it unless your lawyer says you should fight it. While you have been the responsible breadwinner you also acknowledge that your circumstances are not the norm. The 50/50 standard was put in place to protect ex-wives and plenty of men complain about it bitterly as you have. This is the sacrifice and risk you take when you agree to marry.

The point you need to remember, which OP is making, is that VT is not a community property state, it is equitable distribution.

Equitable distribution is a legal principle that governs how marital property is divided between spouses during a divorce in most states. The goal is to divide assets fairly, but not necessarily equally, based on a number of factors. These factors can include:

• Length of marriage
• Value of property
• Each spouse's contributions
• Earning power
• Needs
• Age and health
• Special needs
• Child or spousal support obligations
• Tax consequences
• Liquidity

 

[martyp]

The point you need to remember, which OP is making, is that VT is not a community property state, it is equitable distribution.

Thats nice. Presumably she knew that when she got married which would be my point. She seemed to be content with the marriage before her husband demanded a divorce. She doesn’t like the divorce terms so she can contest it. It is sad that she and her husband are so far apart in retrospect. My opinion though is that that is what you sign up for when you get married.

 

[chris2008]

Be glad that you got rid of him and his family.
You paid a certain price for that but you have your life back.
Litigation will drag your mind back and spoil months and years of your future and your money. The cost of his lawyer will not mean anything for him and he might not even have any money left when the proceeding is over.
Have a happy life from today on!

 

[SoReadyToRetire]

I'm going with three sides to the story here, yours, his, and the truth that is likely somewhere in the middle.

Why shouldn't the finances be equal, unless you stipulated that from the beginning? My wife has been a stay home mom for 29 of our 31 year marriage, and as far as I'm concerned, she's entitled to half of everything, not that we're getting divorced, but my view is that its never been "my money." Its ours. We built it, together.

Seems to me that life wasn't all that "unbearable" if you are looking to go back for a second bite of the apple. Sorry if this comes off as sharp, but given your version of the events, I agree with your attorney.

Leave it alone and move on. Take the time to heal, life is too short.

I can’t let this reply go unanswered.
First of all, if there were children involved, I’d be more understanding. There are NOT.

There’s plenty I didn’t mention because my post was already very long, but it absolutely WAS unbearable once he decided to run away.

First of all, if I’m so horrible, he shouldn’t have continued living with me, coming in and out at will, making threats, fixing himself steak dinners, then mixing himself a pitcher of margaritas and sitting there with his feet up all night watching TV! If you want out, get OUT.

Besides the things I mentioned, he also cleaned out most of our checking and savings accounts on the first day. In that savings happened to be an entire pension I had recently taken as a lump sum and deposited, AND all of the money from a car I bought and had just sold a couple of weeks earlier. That was outright stealing imo. He also immediately (and secretly) cleaned out our safe on the first day.

For someone who couldn’t even order a car part online with a credit card, claiming he “didn’t know how”, he sure knew how to grab money and lock it away from me once he decided to leave.

The emotional rollercoaster he took me on was cruel. At first he claimed he “wouldn’t take anything that wasn’t his” because that “wouldn’t be right” and he “isn’t that kind of person”. Then he decided to go for half of everything. Then he switched to “I’ll take it because my lawyer wants me to but I’ll give it back to you after, because that’s not right”. Then he went back to “I’m taking the Schwab account and if you fight me, I’ll stay here even longer.” Etc, etc, etc.

One night I came home after a long day of trying to complete all the tasks required for unraveling 27 years of marriage, like standing in line for hours at the DMV to get new titles and registrations for our vehicles with only one of our names on them, to find he’d canceled our internet service, once again without warning. I’m Trustee of my mom’s “estate” (ie, the little farm property we grew up on) and having a hard time selling it because the town it’s in changed its zoning laws drastically, which means there are now tons of restrictions on what can be done with it. I lost all the emails with engineers, realtors and lawyers about that, plus many years of other information. And there was absolutely NO reason for him to do that, other than being mean.

So yes—all this WAS unbearable. And it all happened when I was still mourning the loss of my mom!

 

[SoReadyToRetire]

I'm with the majority here; walk away and count your blessings. IF and that's a big IF, I were in your shoes and wanted to ask him for anything, it would be a fully paid-up life insurance policy for X amount of dollars with you as beneficiary. The idea is that you will celebrate when the rat dies some day and give him some thought about how he might treat someone in the future who would benefit from his death.

I'm unsure about applying for Social Security though based on his earnings. Others here might chime in about that possibility; using his SS while yours grows to full maximum.

The life insurance policy is a good idea. Wish I’d thought of it.

 

[SoReadyToRetire]

The point you need to remember, which OP is making, is that VT is not a community property state, it is equitable distribution.

Thank you, njhowie. You totally understood my points. That list of factors in an “equitable” split should NOT just boil down to 50/50!

I had no problem with him getting money he’d saved or inherited plus all the growth of that money over the years, nor did I have a problem with buying him out of the house that’s worth 10 times what he bought it for. I DO have a problem with him taking money I saved, starting before we even met!

 

[SoReadyToRetire]

Thats nice. Presumably she knew that when she got married which would be my point. She seemed to be content with the marriage before her husband demanded a divorce. She doesn’t like the divorce terms so she can contest it. It is sad that she and her husband are so far apart in retrospect. My opinion though is that that is what you sign up for when you get married.

I did NOT know this when I got married. Plus if you read the list of factors that are SUPPOSED to be taken into account in this situation, which njhowie posted, you’d understand why I thought things would be done differently.

Hopefully you don’t find yourself in a similar situation in the future. If you do, perhaps you’ll be more empathetic.

 

[pb4uski]

The point you need to remember, which OP is making, is that VT is not a community property state, it is equitable distribution.

True, but the starting point for equitable distribution is community property and the OP ended up better than community property so while the OP views the settlement as unfair, it is better to her than community property would have been.

Besides, from the OP, it seems that she is really only protesting $138,500 having to do with her brokerage account but at the same time the OP's ex didn't get any of her IRA which I presume was built during their marriage. While I can feel her hurt and that she is upset that the settlement isn't fair, the time to object to the settlement is long past and if she pushes it then it is more likely than not that after legal fees that she'll end up with less than she has now with the agreed settlement. Also, her "highly-respected divorce lawyer" has advised her to accept the proposed settement.

Her concern seems to be that without the $138,500 that she'll be "living out of my IRA, which will cost me a fortune in taxes". If tIRA withdrawals are her sole source of income then the tax bite shouldn't be too bad unless she is living real high on the hog. It is hard to imagine that $138,500 would make a huge difference.

I'm in her position since DW was a SAHM, and if we ever divorced I fully expect that it would be 50/50 except for inherited property that has never been comingled.

 

[njhowie]

True, but the starting point for equitable distribution is community property and the OP ended up better than community property so while the OP views the settlement as unfair, it is better to her than community property would have been.

Besides, from the OP, it seems that she is really only protesting $138,500 having to do with her brokerage account but at the same time the OP's ex didn't get any of her IRA which I presume was built during their marriage. While I can feel her hurt and that she is upset that the settlement isn't fair, the time to object to the settlement is long past and if she pushes it then it is more likely than not that after legal fees that she'll end up with less than she has now with the agreed settlement. Also, her "highly-respected divorce lawyer" has advised her to accept the proposed settement.

Her concern seems to be that without the $138,500 that she'll be "living out of my IRA, which will cost me a fortune in taxes". If tIRA withdrawals are her sole source of income then the tax bite shouldn't be too bad unless she is living real high on the hog. It is hard to imagine that $138,500 would make a huge difference.

I'm in her position since DW was a SAHM, and if we ever divorced I fully expect that it would be 50/50 except for inherited property that has never been comingled.

I made most of your points in my first reply on Page 1, so agree with you. Here I am simply providing OP's view/reasoning, which is understandable.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Sorry you're going through this, it might be helpful to Google "the stages of divorce" so you can understand what's ahead for you emotionally.
If I was you, I'd get this deal signed by the judge ASAP so you can start to heal and move on with your life. If you're going to fight it's going to cost you so much more in money and emotional distress, he may also change his mind and want more and after the lawyers are paid you'll both end up with less.
Just for clarification I've been through a nasty divorce, it's simply not worth the fight. You may think you're getting screwed now in the long run who's going to be the winner?

 

[MarieIG]

SoReady - No, I haven't gone through this but wanted to express my sympathy for such a devastating, undeserved, turn of events. I expect that under those circumstances, I would feel confused, hurt, torn, incredibly sad, angry and betrayed.

Once a settlement has been reached, it is hard to undo, and taking such a route can be very expensive and ultimately, may not be successful (as the courts favor settlements). It is easy to "say" but harder to do - as I believe that there is inherently a grieving / processing period - but I would recommend working on your happiness as an independent woman, including (if you are so included) counseling to expedite the process, pursuing and prioritizing activities that you enjoy, exercise, and keeping up and expanding your social contacts. I wish you the best.

 

[brett]

It seems to me that this is not about who is right, who is wrong, who is the ogre, he done me wrong, etc.

The only thing that counts is the divorce parameters/laws in VT and the measured advice from one or two experienced divorce lawyers who have had years of experience dealing with divorce IN THIS STATE.

The sooner the OP moves on to acting on good legal advice, treats this as a personal finance issue and comes to a resolution the sooner the OP will be able to move on with her life.

Moving forward is what this should be all about. It is as an opportunity to draw a line under the past. Seize it.

 

[RetMD21]

.....

My only advice to you is maybe have your attorney add a clause to your divorce that your ex cannot ever take you back to court for more money once it is finalized.

....

Isn't this standard?

 

[Jerry1]

I"m not sure if the OP stated the issue this way, but one thing I might consider important enough to consider getting in front of a judge is the taxes that will be incurred from drawing down the IRA. If the amount is large enough and the spouse took all after tax assets, did he really give her a deal? Would the judge consider the IRA value on a net (after tax basis)?

Again, I'm if full agreement with the consensus (to move on), but if the OP is left with only pre-tax dollars, has the distribution really been fair? Especially since the taxes are likely to be applied using the Single tax brackets? I think I'd do a bit of the math before I'd feel comfortable saying she got a fair deal just because he didn't touch her IRA.

 

[Texas Proud]

Thank you, njhowie. You totally understood my points. That list of factors in an “equitable” split should NOT just boil down to 50/50!

I had no problem with him getting money he’d saved or inherited plus all the growth of that money over the years, nor did I have a problem with buying him out of the house that’s worth 10 times what he bought it for. I DO have a problem with him taking money I saved, starting before we even met!

I get what your saying... but I think that what some are saying is that equitable is not 50/50, even in a community property state... I have heard where one was 80/20 with the 80% going to the non-working spouse... the thought being that the other spouse has big income potential and can make it back up...

I am really sorry he turned out to be an Ahole..... I am surprised it took 27 years to find out... and it was not YOU that split...

BTW, my oldest sister come home one day to an empty house as her husband decided to skip out and took everything... she was the main bread winner (not that big as she was a teacher but more than him) and he took half of her retirement... he had nothing... married 11 years...

As I said before, it they can do this to a man then if the roles are switched then it can happen to the woman... you just happen to be that woman...

 

[FlaGator]

Been watching this from the start. As a recent divorcee who paid nearly every bill for a year before we married until she moved out 3 years later (even after that I paid everything but her housing), I have sympathy for OP's anger and resentment.

I paid for her move to FL and back to her home state when it was done - $20K round trip on that alone. Plus max IRA and HSA contributions ($20K), paid off her car shortly after we married ($6K), and kicked in $10K for a replacement when she totaled it 18 months later, just a few months before moving out. Plus several trips to see her family or bring them to FL, another $10K. Add several thousand for her hobbies. All of that above and beyond the normal costs of being in a marriage. That was all in 4 years, so a lot of reasons to be unhappy about the cost of that experience, if I chose to. I'm glad there was no demand for an exit fee other than the moving costs on her way out the door. She probably knew I would lawyer up and she'd get nothing after how she handled it at the end.

While I would like to have the money back given the outcome, I don't have any anger toward her. Sometimes it just doesn't work, and I had no resentment *at the time* about what was spent. We gave it a shot, there were a lot of good times until there weren't, and it's over.

OP - you're not unique in feeling betrayed by what has happened. Your posts after the first lead me to think there is still a lot of anger about the entirety of your married experience. My parents were divorced in the 80's and almost 40 years later, my mother still gets angry talking about that marriage, and it hasn't served her well. I kindly suggest you set the money issue aside and get the frustration and anger about that experience behind you.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pb4uski]

I"m not sure if the OP stated the issue this way, but one thing I might consider important enough to consider getting in front of a judge is the taxes that will be incurred from drawing down the IRA. If the amount is large enough and the spouse took all after tax assets, did he really give her a deal? Would the judge consider the IRA value on a net (after tax basis)?

Again, I'm if full agreement with the consensus (to move on), but if the OP is left with only pre-tax dollars, has the distribution really been fair? Especially since the taxes are likely to be applied using the Single tax brackets? I think I'd do a bit of the math before I'd feel comfortable saying she got a fair deal just because he didn't touch her IRA.

In the OP she stated that he only got 1/2 of her brokerage account and she kept all of her IRA.

 

[Koolau]

My sister is still angry about her divorce settlement 30 years afterwards. He got WAY more than he put in. She co-mingled the sale of a condo when they got married so he got half of that and she even had to pay HIM alimony. I just tell her - "You're rid of him - it was worth it." She relaxes again and then agrees with me. YMMV

 

[brett]

Seems to me that you have two distinct choices.

Wallow around in self pity and assignment of blame, or....

Work with your lawyer to finalize your divorce with the best settlement possible under VT divorce law........ and then move forward with your life.

Pick one.

 

[flyoverstate]

Be thankful you didn't divorce in Colorado, he absolutely would have gotten half of the brokerage account, half of your IRA, plus automatic lifetime alimony if you have a pension. Also, 100% of his inheritance plus any appreciation would have been 100% his unless the funds had been co-mingled into a joint account.

 

[ERD50]

My husband of 27 years (age 62) gave me (age 65) roses on Mother’s Day and 3 days later, after an argument, told me he wanted a divorce. I was blindsided.
...
Our situation is unusual in that I, the woman, was the higher earner. We had no children together. I made on average twice his salary for the whole marriage. We both worked all throughout the marriage, although he changed jobs more often than I did for various reasons. He lost one job for smoking pot on his break—in his 40s!! ....

He was so financially unsavvy that when I met him, when he was 35, ...

When he did have an opinion, he invested in things like pot companies ...

I always contributed the maximum to my 401k throughout my career, plus at age 55 I added the catch-up amount. He never put in more than the 1 or 2% required to get the company match. ..

... was paying just the interest on the mortgage. ... I started making triple payments on the house and we paid it off many years early.

... His kids were both addicts and were in and out of jail and rehab for many years. ... were never paid back a dime—even when his son won $50k on a lottery ticket. ...

Whenever we ran a little short on bill money ... I had a pist-tax brokerage account I’d built up that I called my “play money”—so I always just withdrew money from that to cover any shortages or special purchases, like the occasional trip we’d both go on. ....

I don't think you were "blindsided", you were "blind". This had been coming for 27 years, probably more. He sounds like a child, and you the enabler.

But that's all water under the bridge. I agree with most others, move on, not worth the fight and it may backfire on you.

If you get into another relationship, keep your eyes wide open.

Good luck to you.

 

[Kings over Queens]

I can’t let this reply go unanswered.
First of all, if there were children involved, I’d be more understanding. There are NOT.

There’s plenty I didn’t mention because my post was already very long, but it absolutely WAS unbearable once he decided to run away.

First of all, if I’m so horrible, he shouldn’t have continued living with me, coming in and out at will, making threats, fixing himself steak dinners, then mixing himself a pitcher of margaritas and sitting there with his feet up all night watching TV! If you want out, get OUT.

Besides the things I mentioned, he also cleaned out most of our checking and savings accounts on the first day. In that savings happened to be an entire pension I had recently taken as a lump sum and deposited, AND all of the money from a car I bought and had just sold a couple of weeks earlier. That was outright stealing imo. He also immediately (and secretly) cleaned out our safe on the first day.

For someone who couldn’t even order a car part online with a credit card, claiming he “didn’t know how”, he sure knew how to grab money and lock it away from me once he decided to leave.

The emotional rollercoaster he took me on was cruel. At first he claimed he “wouldn’t take anything that wasn’t his” because that “wouldn’t be right” and he “isn’t that kind of person”. Then he decided to go for half of everything. Then he switched to “I’ll take it because my lawyer wants me to but I’ll give it back to you after, because that’s not right”. Then he went back to “I’m taking the Schwab account and if you fight me, I’ll stay here even longer.” Etc, etc, etc.

One night I came home after a long day of trying to complete all the tasks required for unraveling 27 years of marriage, like standing in line for hours at the DMV to get new titles and registrations for our vehicles with only one of our names on them, to find he’d canceled our internet service, once again without warning. I’m Trustee of my mom’s “estate” (ie, the little farm property we grew up on) and having a hard time selling it because the town it’s in changed its zoning laws drastically, which means there are now tons of restrictions on what can be done with it. I lost all the emails with engineers, realtors and lawyers about that, plus many years of other information. And there was absolutely NO reason for him to do that, other than being mean.

So yes—all this WAS unbearable. And it all happened when I was still mourning the loss of my mom!

Thanks for being patient while I was away, just getting caught up.

I take no pleasure in your personal situation.

That said, you poor dear.

Like I said originally, 3 sides to the story. Yours (written here), his (silent) and the truth (somewhere in the middle).

Be happy, you are done with him.