Anybody have a power wall or other battery backup?

[Texas Proud]

I was talking to my sister.... we both have a whole house generator.... she knows of a number of people who are getting quotes to get one..

However, someone she knows was told she does not have enough space for one (kinda surprised me as they do not take up that much space)... so, I suggested that she go for a 'powerwall' or similar... but I do not know much about them or total costs..

I think they are about the same cost of a generator... but would like to hear from someone who actually paid for one and their experience... capacity etc...

 

[Jerry1]

First, I’d check with the city building department or a licensed installer to determine if there really is a space restriction. As you said, they don’t take up much space - similar to an AC unit. Maybe there’s a noise restriction or maybe she has too many windows and they can’t place the unit within code but I doubt “someone she knows” is the best place to get that information.

 

[Surewhitey]

We have this for camping, jumping the auto and electronics when the power is out. Running a portable 9500w connection with the house main box. The pictured is an inverter for not frying electronics.

If not so expensive, I'd consider a battery wall. Plus we have huge trees covering everything.

 

[Jerry1]

When I look at a portable battery option, the first thing I want to know is how long it will run a refrigerator. I’m thinking not long.

The first thing in buying any type of generator is determining what you’re trying to run (load) and for how long. For me, I need to know I can run a refrigerator, freezer, my furnace and in my previous house, a sump pump. Some of my worst outages here have been for a few days. I think the worst was a week.

I’m sure there’s a batter/solar system that can handle that type of load but I have a hard time imagining that it can be done as economically as a fossil fuel generator. The cost benefit is further complicated by the fact that you, hopefully, will not use a generator very often.

I look at this issue in two ways. A whole house generator that will run everything for as long as you can feed it fuel. For me, that’s a natural gas whole house generator. Prior to that, I had a Honda 2000 watt generator that ran on gasoline. I could keep a fridge, freezer, furnace and my sump pump running as long as I could get gasoline. I had to do the extension cord shuffle because obviously I couldn’t run them all at the same time, but I could get by without losing and food or freezing in the winter or having my basement flood. Personally, I think that level of portable generator is the best value to cover the basic needs in a power outage.

 

[Romer]

I have two LG 16KwH batteries for a total of 32kWh as part of my Solar System. I know you didn't ask about Solar, but Solar is great when the grid is up. However, when the Grid goes down the panels provide no power to the house UNLESS you have a battery. It doesn't matter what size battery, as long as it works with your system. That at least is Code here in Colorado

For the Batteries, I am real happy with them. I have it set to deplete to 70% unless the grid goes down and that powers my house from sunset through early morning. They would power our house for a couple days if we get miserly on their own with no solar recharge or indefinitely during the summer months or winter when not covered with snow

My apologies if you are asking only about small batteries. I got these instead of powerwalls is why I replied

 

[Texas Proud]

First, I’d check with the city building department or a licensed installer to determine if there really is a space restriction. As you said, they don’t take up much space - similar to an AC unit. Maybe there’s a noise restriction or maybe she has too many windows and they can’t place the unit within code but I doubt “someone she knows” is the best place to get that information.

It is not someone she knows... it was getting a quote from a dealer who said they could not install one.

 

[GrayHare]

If I'm outside, the way I first know there is a power failure is by the sound of a propane-based generator starting up >a half mile away<. Battery storage will be much quieter, though perhaps more expensive.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have two LG 16KwH batteries for a total of 32kWh as part of my Solar System. I know you didn't ask about Solar, but Solar is great when the grid is up. However, when the Grid goes down the panels provide no power to the house UNLESS you have a battery. It doesn't matter what size battery, as long as it works with your system. That at least is Code here in Colorado

For the Batteries, I am real happy with them. I have it set to deplete to 70% unless the grid goes down and that powers my house from sunset through early morning. They would power our house for a couple days if we get miserly on their own with no solar recharge or indefinitely during the summer months or winter when not covered with snow

My apologies if you are asking only about small batteries. I got these instead of powerwalls is why I replied
View attachment 51352

This is what I am asking about, except for the solar panels... she is in her 80s and does not want to have to do cord switching which is why I am proposing a whole house battery....

I have done a bit of research and one that is not Tesla has the ability to connect a gas generator to charge it up if extended outage... so she might have to use a portable generator in extreme cases...

 

[Texas Proud]

My sister and I have whole house generator and love it... I have had 3 major outages in the last 3 months... one was for 45 hours, another for 24 hours... last year I also had a long one but do not remember how long...

I agree this is the best way to go and it is what we are recommending to anybody who asks us about our system... just a few seconds without power and then you are up and running... easy peasy... but if you cannot put one in I think the whole house battery is the next best option..

I did check my oil after the 45 hour run and it was completely full and looked like it was just poured into the system... no color in the oil at all..

 

[Jerry1]

I could see how a battery backup with a small generator could be a good solution. The battery set up could keep her from having to do the extension cord shuffle and the small generator could continuously charge the batteries. Kind of like having my iPad plugged in while I’m using it.

 

[Zathras]

Battery backups are more expensive. As I recall, Powerwalls are about $10k (11.5kWh capacity)
They also require much less monitoring and maintenance (unless it is the old lead-acid type).
No potential CO issues either.

We have Tesla Powerwalls. In the event of a winter power outage, the battery backup covers our HVAC, fridge, Network, computer, 2 TVs, microwave, garage doors, sump pump, etc.
About 2/3rds of the house, so not quite 'whole house'.

The switch from grid to backup power is automatic and quick (TV doesn't even flicker).
We have had ours for 5 years. No maintenance needed.

For whole house backup generators, you should check to see if the federal 30% rebate is an option.
I believe it is in effect for battery backups, not sure about gas generators.

 

[Texas Proud]

The whole house generator is costing in the $18K range from what my sister is telling me her friends are being quoted... we paid about $12K 3 years or so ago... also there is a backup in even getting a quote... she said a friend is scheduled for mid August for them to come and check her house... Here in Houston over 1 million lost electricity and some for up to 8 days... it was 2 for me...

We did get some discount from the gas company and a 10 year warranty but do not know the discount amount...

 

[FIYes]

If the cost of a power wall wasn’t so expensive then I would consider buying one. We have solar panels, but that doesn’t do us any good if the power goes out. Fortunately, the power doesn’t go out that often. Last year we had an outage for a week. Not fun, but again not frequent.

 

[Texas Proud]

I found this as an option that does not seem to be even close to a Tesla wall..

The question is how much it costs to get a switch and this installed...

Walrus Arctic Home Power - 8 kW Inverter + 15.5 kWh Battery

Introducing the Walrus Arctic by BatteryEVO, your comprehensive whole home power system designed for effortless integration into both solar-equipped and non-solar homes. This versatile 15.5kWh unit is equipped with a built-in 8kW inverter, making it a reliable source of energy during power...

winwinbattery.com

 

[ncbill]

I'd get something portable like an Ecoflow Delta Pro with the option to add batteries for longer runtime.

Can connect that to your electrical panel just as with the permanently installed options, e.g Powerwall.

But can expand capacity as you wish & finances allow.

I wouldn't buy a brand I've never heard of before like the Walrus in the post above.

 

[Midpack]

I’m curious about the Tesla Powerwall and follow the tech casually, but I haven’t acted on it. I’ve never lived anywhere that had frequent or lengthy power outages, but I know there are such places. I’ve known some neighbors with large generators, but not significant battery banks.

 

[DayDreaming]

I don't have a PowerWall but am seriously considering one along with solar panels If you buy Tesla solar panels + PowerWall together, it's discounted. I got a preliminary estimate done and it's about $14k after the discount and federal or state rebates, and this includes installation. Not cheap, but not as expensive as I imagined. I had them come out to do a site assessment and am waiting for their design proposal and a more accurate cost.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I'd get something portable like an Ecoflow Delta Pro with the option to add batteries for longer runtime.

Can connect that to your electrical panel just as with the permanently installed options, e.g Powerwall.

But can expand capacity as you wish & finances allow.

I wouldn't buy a brand I've never heard of before like the Walrus in the post above.

I don't have the Ecoflow Delta Pro but do own the Ecoflow Delta 2 plus extra battery. About 2Kwh of capacity. I also own a small 2KW sine wave generator (gas) and a 8KW propane generator. My strategy is that the Ecoflow is enough to run my fridge plus freezer overnight. Thus I can charge up the Ecoflow from either the 2KW sine wave or using the larger generator then have a noiseless solution for overnight. I also have 4 100 watt solar panels which are enough to charge the Ecoflow usually (sun permitting).

I also have a hybrid vehicle which could act as another energy source - "run" the hybrid and use that to charge the Ecoflow - the hybrid would start/stop on its own to charge the house battery which would be used via 12V DC to charge the Ecoflow. This would likely be enough (96 watts w/a 8 amp dc draw) to keep the Ecoflow mostly "topped" overnight while being used to run the fridge and freezer. If not, I have seen others wire up a larger sine wave inverter (for the hybrid) to produce more power.

In the winter time, I have oil heat and also a wood stove (w/fan), so I would need enough power to run the circulator pumps and woodstove fan. Again, this is possible using the Ecoflow w/generator or hybrid as an occasional (cycled) energy source.

 

[JackJester]

While the OP seems to be focussed on a single backup electric battery bank solution for her sister’s friend (and I can’t blame her since ‘simplicity' is king), I tend to think more like copyright above in that there is a multiple tiered solution that evolves based on the length of the power outage. A single solution is quite expensive and may be overkill unless you want to be off-grid full time. And, unless you have solar or wind to re-charge that house battery bank, eventually that will run out. You have to ask yourself what the worst case scenario is for you (i.e, the time without electric company-provided power). My system has these 3 tiers:

1) I have a 7000W Honda eco gas powered generator. I can connect it into my circuit breaker panel, switch off power from the main, and then drive all the circuits that I want from the generator. I can turn on/off individual circuit breakers to power what I want, but the 7000W is strong enough to power my water pump to pressurize water from the well to the house. And I can power the 220V refrigerator. I generally keep 10 days worth of gas on-hand. The generator is very efficient and I power it off at night. The longest I have gone without power is 11 days (major ice/wind storm in the PNW cascade foothills), it was a rough experience, and was the event that made me buy the 7000W generator. I had 3000W gas generator at that time, and was quite limited (I ran out of well water since I could not power the pump). In addition to the 7000W generator, I also have a wood fired stove if I need heat, and also propane for the house heater and kitchen stove (250 gal propane tank). I have a water holding tank capacity of 300 gal before needing to draw from the well. I have recently added a 2nd tier:

2) a portable 135AH Lithium power box (Powerbox+ 135 Waterproof Solar Generator, 12V 135Ah DL+ 1,000CCA Battery Included). It has a 180W solar panel attachment. I mainly use this for camping/fishing trips, but can use it for my house if my generator runs out of gas. It won’t drive a 220V refrigerator or my house water pump, but it will handle 110V for other appliances for a few days. And if there is sun, then basic power is unlimited.

3) I consider my Airstream camper a 3rd tier if necessary. It has with a group 27 AGM battery and 20 gal propane. It has a refrigerator that will run off propane or 110V. So, I could always use my Lithium power box to power the refrigerator via 110 as a last resort.

So with these 3 tiers I guesstimate I can make it a month + and then still be OK as a spartan long-term haul as long the sunshine exists. For this time frame, I have shelter, heat, water, basic electrical appliances, and whatever food is stored in the pantry and refrig/freezer. To think beyond this time frame is to become a Prepper IMO…not my cup of tea. Tier 1 is approx $10K and Tier 2 is $2K.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, I am looking for simplicity as the friend is over 80 and we do not want to have to move stuff around and unplug and plug in different appliances to run them... just live like you were living and be done with it... she has the money, so why not BTD....

I have seen that some of the whole house batteries have a plug for solar panels OR a generator... I will be recommending a small generator as the 2nd tier in case of a long power outage... I am interesting to see what a hybrid car can add to the mix... I do not know if she has one but it could be an option to cover the 2nd tier if it would work...

But that is why my sister and I bought a whole house natural gas generator... we do not have to worry about a 2nd tier or playing extension cord roulette...

 

[lem1955]

We have an All Earth Renewables Solar Tracker and a Tesla Powerwall. The solar tracker generates about 80% of our electricity each year. The Powerwall has been triggered 28 times in the past year - mostly for a few minutes to an hour. We haven't been aware of any of the outages until checking the app. Completely seamless operation. No fuel needed. No maintenance. Yes, it cost $14k to install the Battery, but there is a 30% tax credit (not deduction) for it. If the sun comes out after a storm and the grid is still down, the Powerwall will provide energy to run the solar tracker and the tracker will provide energy for the house.

 

[surfFL]

So after debating Whole House Generator + LPG tank vs. Solar Panels + Battery Backup, I've decided for the latter.

Everyone considering those 2 options, should carefully analyze their 1/ -monthly- energy needs, 2/ ROI and 3/ solution convenience.

1/
a/ Solar companies will usually provide the estimated yearly kWh production. But your production will greatly vary during the year (a 1:2 factor). For a given wattage (equivalent to the number of panels), use this calculator:

PVWatts

Estimates the energy production and cost of energy of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) energy systems throughout the world. It allows homeowners, small building owners, installers and manufacturers to easily develop estimates of the performance of potential PV installations

pvwatts.nrel.gov

to get the monthly production.
NOTE: Make sure you have your roof Tilt (I went to the attic to measure it) and Azimuth correctly entered, they affect the calculator.
You should compare this with you electric monthly kWh consumption (low for me is December, high for me is July)
Will the solution cover 100% (or 80%, whatever you feel comfortable with) of your electric needs for those months?
Add comparing this with the panels monthly production (low for me is December, high for me is May)
b/ Make sure you have solar panels on the roof sides that produce the most, use this calculator

PVWatts

Estimates the energy production and cost of energy of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) energy systems throughout the world. It allows homeowners, small building owners, installers and manufacturers to easily develop estimates of the performance of potential PV installations

pvwatts.nrel.gov

For me it's South, then East, then West.
Also for risk mitigation (I'm in the Treasure Coast, FL) I will have a solution where I have panels on the 3 roofs; should the wind damage one side (usually hurricane winds are strong on 2 sides) the others should not be affected.
c/ You can also factor in that solar panels loose 15% kWh production (called degradation) over 10 years, I have not TBH.

2/
a/ Compute the Whole House Generator + LPG tank (including first fill-up) vs. Solar Panels + Battery Backup up front cost
b/ Compute your yearly electrical needs and the offset you will get from 1/ (for me it's 100%, year-round / every month). For me there is also a minimum service usage with my utility: $10 per month with FPL.
b/ Compute the Generator (required to preserve the warranty) monthly maintenance / subscription for a year
c/ Compute the Generator yearly fuel usage (remember it needs to run couple of minutes every month for maintenance purposes regardless you use it or not)
d/ Compute the Solar Panels + Battery Backup Federal Tax Credit (30% as of today)
Then add-up a/, b/ c/ and d/ for X years.
For me in 5 years I will break even, every year after Year 5, the Generator solution will cost me $2k more than the Solar Panels + Battery Backup.
- Hopefully the new Administration will preserve the Federal Tax Credit, we shall see... -
e/ For me, my Federal Tax Credit is going to cover 200% of the loan interest, and I should not be paying Fed Taxes for 4 years. The monthly loan cost is a wash with my monthly electric bill saving + additional income I'll be getting 01/01/2025. So it does not impact my budget going forward.
f/ Home Owner Insurance: for me it's $50 per year extra for Solar Panels + Battery Backup, I haven't checked for Whole House Generator + LPG tank
g/ Net Metering: Does your Utility offer Net Metering? Is it capped?
For me it's capped at 115% (FPL), but I don't plan to get it; extra kWh (if any) will be stored in the battery but as exposed above, I'll be covering 100% of my needs.

3/
a/ Whole House Generator + LPG tank will offer me 14 days off the grid vs. Solar Panels + Battery Backup 7 days if ALL 7 cloudy days. If the sun is shining every day after an outage, I won't use / need the battery.
NOTE: Solar still produces energy even during cloudy days but much less (10 - 25% only)
Here, it is very important to assess the battery size based on your house kWh consumption during an outage and what you want to power:
Solar: I will only power my house AC, Fridge and few outlets.
Generator: I could have powered everything.
And the Battery usually have a max draw lower (10kW) than Generator (20kW). So you cannot have all appliances on at the same time with the Battery.
b/ Locked Rotor Amp (LRA)
Your house AC has a high LRA (mine is 87 Amp), which will require a big generator or to install a soft starter kit.
Battery LRA is high (Tesla Powerwall 3 is 185 Amp) which will start anything mostly.
c/ Generator noise vs. Solar quietness
d/ Whole House Generator + LPG tank is very intrusive for me (digging, drilling under the driveway, grass sods needed after, move some sprinklers, ...) vs. Solar: nothing.
e/ I have decided to go with Tesla Energy since I like the ecosystem (I have a Model Y + a Wall Connector), the Tesla Energy Solar Panels + Battery Backup solution is fully integrated with the Car and Wall Connector (same App).

I've just placed the order with Tesla Energy today, so I don't know how the project will unfold (I won't have time to report, sorry) but they say 3-6 months.

I hope this helps.

Additional educational material:

What Size Solar System Do You Actually Need?

How do you calculate what size solar system you need? Here's how to balance how much solar you need, should get, and can get, to get a perfect system.

southern-energy.com

Solar Calculator

Calculate how much power you need with these solar calculators to estimate the size and the cost of the solar panel array needed for your home energy usage.

sunwatts.com

This backup power switch could save you $30,000

Is battery backup or a generator better for protecting you against outages? Learn about why a home battery may be the better option.

www.energysage.com

PVWatts

Estimates the energy production and cost of energy of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) energy systems throughout the world. It allows homeowners, small building owners, installers and manufacturers to easily develop estimates of the performance of potential PV installations

pvwatts.nrel.gov

 

[Texas Proud]

Can you connect a portable generator to the Powerwall?

I had proposed a 'whole house' battery to one of my sister's friend... without solar panels... the one I saw could be charged by a generator... and a smaller one at that...

The benefit of the solar panels is that you get use of them all the time... the backup generator.. not...

I could not use solar even if I wanted... too many trees... but my rates are low so even if I could it would not pay for itself any time soon...

ETA...OH, I see this was my thread!!! LOL...

 

[surfFL]

Can you connect a portable generator to the Powerwall?

I had proposed a 'whole house' battery to one of my sister's friend... without solar panels... the one I saw could be charged by a generator... and a smaller one at that...

The benefit of the solar panels is that you get use of them all the time... the backup generator.. not...

I could not use solar even if I wanted... too many trees... but my rates are low so even if I could it would not pay for itself any time soon...

ETA...OH, I see this was my thread!!! LOL...

Hi Texas Proud,
Yes as indicated in the other thread (following my conversation with Tesla Energy), you cannot charge a Powerwall 3 with a generator.
See here for more details about what can be done in this scenario (powerwall + solar panels + generator)

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/learn/combining-systems

Regards,

PS: Side notes on my post above
1/ b/
It's also wise -I think- to have a panels on the East, South and West walls IHMO to 'follow the sun' as in the morning the East panels will get more light than others and in the evening the West panels will get more light than others. So you can produce energy day-round; and in case of a 1/2 cloudy day, you optimize your kWh production. It's kind of a 'static solar tracker'
2/ h/ I think adding panels on the roof will lower you cooling energy requirement, since the panels will absorb the energy, not the roof shingles / materials... Thus cooler in the attic. Thus less AC used inside. That's just me thinking. Google it up or ChatGPT it up.

 

[skyking1]

The new home construction will get a critical loads backup panel at a minimum, with a smaller battery and inverter.
I already have a 7.5 KW diesel light plant/generator that will have a plug on the wall of the house for the unlikely event of an extended outage.