Automotive AC Repair Frustration

[mountainsoft]

We're planning a road trip this summer, so I thought it would be nice to get the AC working in my car. It hasn't worked since I bought the car 8 years ago, so I had no idea what was wrong with it. I had a local mom and pop shop check it out. They replaced a pressure switch and recharged the system for about $250. Everything seems to work, but unfortunately it's not enough to cool the car down even on a sunny 60 degree day.

I contacted them again about replacing the compressor, drier, and expansion valve. No response. Two other attempts also when unanswered. I'm not sure why, I enjoyed working with them for the initial recharge. Small town shop, friendly, and close to home. Nothing but crickets now...

So, I tried contacting a few other places in town. Again, no answer on the phone, and no response to emails. How do these people stay in business? I finally got an estimate back from one place in town, $2300! Ouch. That's more than paid for the car ($1900). Another company responded today at $2100. Crazy. Obviously, I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a 25 year old car when we may only use AC 3-4 times a year here in Washington state.

I've always done my own car work anyway, so I figured I would just order the parts and do it myself. I had no problem finding an OEM quality compressor and drier for $240 total and had them in hand 4 days later. I still needed to order the expansion valve (~$30) and some O-rings, but total parts would be less than $400. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a shop anywhere in town that would evacuate the refrigerant for me so I could do the work. One shop said they could do it, but when I arrived for the appointment they said they don't work on VW's? I called a shop specializing in VW's and they don't do AC work? Grrr... So frustrating. I mean even the local drive up oil change place will evacuate and recharge AC systems, but they wouldn't do the evac by itself.

So now I have a brand new AC compressor that I'm returning back to the supplier tomorrow. If I can't get the system evacuated, I can't do anything with it. It's not a job I wanted to do in the first place, but it's not that difficult. Remove the serpentine belt, two bolts to get the alternator out of the way, disconnect the AC lines, and three bolts to remove the compressor. I watched several YouTube videos showing how it's done. Couldn't take more than two hours tops. I don't know where they're coming up with a $800-1000 labor charge, or $1000 for parts I paid $240 for. Quite the markup. Unfortunately, they have the industry locked down. I can't afford their prices, and they make it impossible to do the work myself.

Sadly, I have spent 3+ weeks stressing about this, often keeping me up at night. It feels so defeating. The only option I have is to return the parts I have and do without AC in my car. I guess I'm no worse off than I have been the last eight years...

 

[Qs Laptop]

They replaced a pressure switch and recharged the system for about $250. Everything seems to work, but unfortunately it's not enough to cool the car down even on a sunny 60 degree day.

Sounds like something isn't working. I don't understand how the shop could return the vehicle to you without the AC working properly?

I assume the repair shop was able to pull a vacuum on the system (evacuate it) in order to recharge it, but who knows? Maybe the refrigerant they added has leaked out?

Is the compressor cycling on and off when the AC is running?

If you place a thermometer probe into an air outlet what is the air temperature coming out of the vent?

Why does the system need to be evacuated before you install the new parts? Isn't there a way to bleed off the refrigerant before you (safely) start the repair?

Yes, you will be releasing the refrigerant into the wild, but it seems you have no other choice.

What year and model vehicle is it?

 

[Aerides]

It's a 25 year old car? time to go shopping.

 

[Koolau]

It's a 25 year old car? time to go shopping.

Yeah, the brake lamp on my 25 year old Buick failed (I thought), so I replaced it myself. It w*rked briefly but then didn't w*rk. My regular mechanic showed me that the unit had rusted out. He replaced it. I'm so glad I didn't give up and buy a new car. I even have two lamps available for when the actual lamp does burn out. That car might make it to 50!

Oh, I do have to add "freon" or whatever it uses every 5 years or so in order keep the AC functioning. I bought extra in case they change the formula of coolant again.

 

[mountainsoft]

Sounds like something isn't working. I don't understand how the shop could return the vehicle to you without the AC working properly?

I assume the repair shop was able to pull a vacuum on the system (evacuate it) in order to recharge it, but who knows? Maybe the refrigerant they added has leaked out?

Is the compressor cycling on and off when the AC is running?

If you place a thermometer probe into an air outlet what is the air temperature coming out of the vent?

Why does the system need to be evacuated before you install the new parts? Isn't there a way to bleed off the refrigerant before you (safely) start the repair?

Yes, you will be releasing the refrigerant into the wild, but it seems you have no other choice.

What year and model vehicle is it?

2000 VW Jetta. I told the shop at the beginning that I didn't want to spend a lot of money trying to get the AC going. They fixed the leaking pressure switch and charged the system. It holds pressure, but the seals in the compressor aren't allowing it to build up enough pressure to get full cooling. I haven't measured the temp myself, but he said he got it down to 45 degrees (on a 55 degree day).

I actually heard back from them today. $1800 parts and labor. That's certainly better than the $2300 quote from the other place, but still way more than I'm willing to spend.

I'm not willing to vent the refrigerant into air, so I'm stuck without a proper recovery.

I'm still waiting on a couple other estimates (if they respond), but at this point I'm considering it too expensive to repair and moving on. Bummer.

 

[mountainsoft]

It's a 25 year old car? time to go shopping.

My last car was 32 years old with 450K miles, so there's still lots of life in this one!

It's got new tires and brakes. I just replaced the struts, suspension bushings, and brake hoses. Many other new parts also. It should keep going for quite a while.

For what it's worth, I did go car shopping last month. There really wasn't anything under $10K anywhere (which was pushing my comfort level), and most needed a lot of work. To top it off, my Jetta has more cargo area (length/width) than all of the SUV's we looked at. Weird. So, we decided to hold off on another vehicle for a while.

 

[Koolau]

My last car was 32 years old with 450K miles, so there's still lots of life in this one!

It's got new tires and brakes. I just replaced the struts, suspension bushings, and brake hoses. Many other new parts also. It should keep going for quite a while.

To top it off, my Jetta has more cargo area (length/width) than all of the SUV's we looked at. Weird. So, we decided to hold off on another vehicle for a while.

Off topic (surprise) but I helped a couple move and had a friend help as well. My Honda CRV held half of what my friend's '15 Prius held!

 

[More Cowbell]

My 21 year old car’s AC stopped blowing cold air on the first day of a road trip last July, in stop and go traffic due to an overturned semi while going up the grade to the high desert on the way to the eastern Sierra mountains. This was during the heat wave, so at least 110°. Thank goodness I had a handheld USB fan and a wet handkerchief on my neck! The AC started working again at night, but the next day it again stopped blowing cold air once we hit stop and go construction traffic in NV. But then the AC worked fine in the evening, and kept working after I reached the coast.

AC problems are a known issue for my car, but has been fixed in later generations. I rarely need to use AC since I live in a mild climate, just drop the top! However, my now-retired independent AC guy said AC needs to be run periodically. I have’t had the AC looked at since the toasty road trip. Plenty of other age-related car issues have popped up to drain my wallet (master/slave cylinder, oil leaks/timing belt, alternator.) But I still like driving this car, and others say that it still looks brand new.

If you can deal with no AC and the car is still drivable and you wish to keep driving it - do it! AC was still a novelty when I was growing up.

 

[Koolau]

My 21 year old car’s AC stopped blowing cold air on the first day of a road trip last July, in stop and go traffic due to an overturned semi while going up the grade to the high desert on the way to the eastern Sierra mountains. This was during the heat wave, so at least 110°. Thank goodness I had a handheld USB fan and a wet handkerchief on my neck! The AC started working again at night, but the next day it again stopped blowing cold air once we hit stop and go construction traffic in NV. But then the AC worked fine in the evening, and kept working after I reached the coast.

AC problems are a known issue for my car, but has been fixed in later generations. I rarely need to use AC since I live in a mild climate, just drop the top! However, my now-retired independent AC guy said AC needs to be run periodically. I have’t had the AC looked at since the toasty road trip. Plenty of other age-related car issues have popped up to drain my wallet (master/slave cylinder, oil leaks/timing belt, alternator.) But I still like driving this car, and others say that it still looks brand new.

If you can deal with no AC and the car is still drivable and you wish to keep driving it - do it! AC was still a novelty when I was growing up.

Yeah, never had an AC in a car until I was 20.

 

[freedomatlast]

Replacing the compressor, drier and expansion valve without doing simple diagnostics first is just stabbing in the dark. If you want to work on A/C systems, first buy a quality set of professional gages. Read and learn how the system actually works. Report back with the pressures recorded on both the low and high pressure sides of the system along with the ambient temperature and we can guide you through the proper diagnostic and repair procedures.

The reason no one wants to evacuate your system is because you have an old vehicle and they have no idea if you pumped stop leak into it or if you mixed refrigerants at one time and they don't want to potentially contaminate their equipment.

Why don't you go online and spend $50 to get your EPA Section 609 certification. You'll then understand how the system works and be in a better position for a successful repair.

 

[ncbill]

Yep, OP could just get certificate, replace components, then recharge.

 

[COcheesehead]

One of the reasons why we drive new cars. Trip confidence. We road trip a lot and the last thing we want to worry about are car issues, let alone driving in summer w/o AC.
As an alternative you can always rent a car for the trip.

 

[Qs Laptop]

2000 VW Jetta. I told the shop at the beginning that I didn't want to spend a lot of money trying to get the AC going. They fixed the leaking pressure switch and charged the system. It holds pressure, but the seals in the compressor aren't allowing it to build up enough pressure to get full cooling. I haven't measured the temp myself, but he said he got it down to 45 degrees (on a 55 degree day).

If a temperature probe placed in the air conditioning outlet vent is reaching 45°, especially on a 55° day, that air conditioner is working properly.

Why do you think it's not working?

 

[folivier]

My Buick Enclave holds almost as much as my Tahoe despite being smaller. Might be worth a look at one.

 

[bloom2708]

I've driven old junk cars in my youth. As I get older, I don't drive junk anymore.

If you buy a $1,900 car, I would not expect much to work.

My advice: Go buy a new car. Get to put the first 30k miles on it yourself.

 

[frank05]

Do you have any local auto stores like AutoZone that rents tools?

 

[mountainsoft]

Off topic (surprise) but I helped a couple move and had a friend help as well. My Honda CRV held half of what my friend's '15 Prius held!

We frequently transport both of our mom's to shopping and doctor appointments. We need at least 40" (with the seats up) to fit their walkers in our cars. Even with that, we have to undo the handles on my MIL's walker as hers is a bit taller. So that was one of the critical measurements we took of all the cars and SUV's we looked at. I was really surprised how so many big vehicles had 30" or less of cargo area behind the seat. It just didn't make sense to spend $10K+ and get less space than we have now.

 

[mountainsoft]

If you can deal with no AC and the car is still drivable and you wish to keep driving it - do it! AC was still a novelty when I was growing up.

Yep. AC is just a luxury for me. I have never owned a car with working AC. I wish I could get it working, but it's not worth $2300!

 

[mountainsoft]

Replacing the compressor, drier and expansion valve without doing simple diagnostics first is just stabbing in the dark. If you want to work on A/C systems, first buy a quality set of professional gages. Read and learn how the system actually works. Report back with the pressures recorded on both the low and high pressure sides of the system along with the ambient temperature and we can guide you through the proper diagnostic and repair procedures.

The reason no one wants to evacuate your system is because you have an old vehicle and they have no idea if you pumped stop leak into it or if you mixed refrigerants at one time and they don't want to potentially contaminate their equipment.

Why don't you go online and spend $50 to get your EPA Section 609 certification. You'll then understand how the system works and be in a better position for a successful repair.

Like I said, I didn't want to do my own work on the AC in the first place. It was just an option I was looking at to save money.

The shop that did the recharge did the diagnosis and said the compressor wasn't building up enough pressure to cool adequately. I didn't see the gauges, so I can only take their word for it. Replacing the drier and expansion valve are recommended when changing the compressor, and don't cost much anyway. Replacing the condenser or evaporator would be a much bigger job, but the compressor is just right there in front, easy to access. There's no reason that should cost $800 in labor (in addition to the recharge labor).

As for contaminating the equipment, they have to evacuate to recharge anyway, so that wouldn't make any sense. No one hesitated to do the recharge.

Nope, unless a final estimate comes in at an affordable price, I'm done. I'm frustrated and tired of dealing with it.

 

[mountainsoft]

One of the reasons why we drive new cars. Trip confidence. We road trip a lot and the last thing we want to worry about are car issues, let alone driving in summer w/o AC.
As an alternative you can always rent a car for the trip.

I considered renting, but that cost way too much.

My car runs fine, mostly new parts anyway. I have zero worries about making a trip with it.

I considered buying a newer vehicle, but I have no idea what repairs that might need. The unknown could get costly. I know what condition my current vehicle is in. I know what repairs have been made. Unless the engine blows or something on our trip, using my current vehicle is simply more reliable.

 

[mountainsoft]

If a temperature probe placed in the air conditioning outlet vent is reaching 45°, especially on a 55° day, that air conditioner is working properly.

Why do you think it's not working?

I made a few hour long drive's on hot sunny days and it didn't even begin to cool the car down inside (even with recirculation on). It doesn't really matter what the vent temp is, what matters is if the car cools down. Otherwise it's useless.

 

[gauss]

We're planning a road trip this summer, so I thought it would be nice to get the AC working in my car. It hasn't worked since I bought the car 8 years ago, so I had no idea what was wrong with it. I had a local mom and pop shop check it out. They replaced a pressure switch and recharged the system for about $250. Everything seems to work, but unfortunately it's not enough to cool the car down even on a sunny 60 degree day.

I contacted them again about replacing the compressor, drier, and expansion valve. No response. Two other attempts also when unanswered. I'm not sure why, I enjoyed working with them for the initial recharge. Small town shop, friendly, and close to home. Nothing but crickets now...

So, I tried contacting a few other places in town. Again, no answer on the phone, and no response to emails. How do these people stay in business? I finally got an estimate back from one place in town, $2300! Ouch. That's more than paid for the car ($1900). Another company responded today at $2100. Crazy. Obviously, I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a 25 year old car when we may only use AC 3-4 times a year here in Washington state.

I've always done my own car work anyway, so I figured I would just order the parts and do it myself. I had no problem finding an OEM quality compressor and drier for $240 total and had them in hand 4 days later. I still needed to order the expansion valve (~$30) and some O-rings, but total parts would be less than $400. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a shop anywhere in town that would evacuate the refrigerant for me so I could do the work. One shop said they could do it, but when I arrived for the appointment they said they don't work on VW's? I called a shop specializing in VW's and they don't do AC work? Grrr... So frustrating. I mean even the local drive up oil change place will evacuate and recharge AC systems, but they wouldn't do the evac by itself.

So now I have a brand new AC compressor that I'm returning back to the supplier tomorrow. If I can't get the system evacuated, I can't do anything with it. It's not a job I wanted to do in the first place, but it's not that difficult. Remove the serpentine belt, two bolts to get the alternator out of the way, disconnect the AC lines, and three bolts to remove the compressor. I watched several YouTube videos showing how it's done. Couldn't take more than two hours tops. I don't know where they're coming up with a $800-1000 labor charge, or $1000 for parts I paid $240 for. Quite the markup. Unfortunately, they have the industry locked down. I can't afford their prices, and they make it impossible to do the work myself.

Sadly, I have spent 3+ weeks stressing about this, often keeping me up at night. It feels so defeating. The only option I have is to return the parts I have and do without AC in my car. I guess I'm no worse off than I have been the last eight years...

Maybe buy an electric vaccum pump and some gages?
This should empower you to do much of your own AC work.
I have worked on many vehicles over the years as well as at least 4 residential AC central air systems.

This YouTube site has lots of good information that I used when I started working on the residential systems AC Service Tech LLC

-gauss

 

[mountainsoft]

I've driven old junk cars in my youth. As I get older, I don't drive junk anymore.

If you buy a $1,900 car, I would not expect much to work.

My advice: Go buy a new car. Get to put the first 30k miles on it yourself.

First, I don't consider my car a "junk" car. It drives nice, no issues with the body or paint, leather seats with no tears or stains, interior is in great condition. I maintain it well, and it is very reliable. In the grand scheme of things I put very little money into it.

New cars are a waste of money. They depreciate as soon as they leave the lot. The $30-40K for a new vehicle will buy a lot of repairs on an old car. Especially now that we're retired, the car mostly just sits in the driveway anyway. We typically average less than 5000 miles per year now.

 

[mountainsoft]

Maybe buy an electric vaccum pump and some gages?
This should empower you to do much of your own AC work.
I have worked on many vehicles over the years as well as at least 4 residential AC central air systems.

This YouTube site has lots of good information that I used when I started working on the residential systems AC Service Tech LLC

-gauss

It just turned into too much work for something that we consider a luxury anyway. We've never had a fully working AC in any of our cars and managed just fine.

 

[freedomatlast]

"As for contaminating the equipment, they have to evacuate to recharge anyway, so that wouldn't make any sense. No one hesitated to do the recharge."

Regardless of EPA rules, the cold hard fact is many shops will vent the refrigerant rather than recover it if there's a chance that it may contaminate what they have. Obviously they aren't going to tell you that.