balancing spending and saving

[livingalmostlarge]

I am debating upgrading us one way for our trip this summer 9 hours one way to business class. We are flying business out with miles (family of 4) but regular return. Cost is $1200 per person and we spent $400 on the one way. I read the other thread about FC domestic and I do it usually when it's less than $100 more per person, which has happened quite a lot recently.

Anyway i'm just curious how the rest of you not RE balance the spending with the savings? We're FI, but not RE. Mostly because we're golden handcuffed right now for a bit and the kids are 9th adn 7th grade so we're tied to our area and it's not a hardship. We've hit our number and are on cruise control just saving. So I've been loosening the purse strings.

But how do you balance it? my fire will be fat and i live pretty fat now. So do you bump it up more? The natural frugalite in me is warring.

 

[athena53]

Splurge on your priorities and be frugal on the other stuff. I'm in Fat FIRE, I suppose. I booked a family trip for me, DS, DDIL and 3 kids from Des Moines to SC and looked at Business Class. At $1,000 per person extra with a connection (so, two shorter flights), I'm the only one who might enjoy the free booze- nope, not worth it. The kids are also young enough (oldest is 10) that a Coach seat fits just fine. OTOH- I'm looking at SE Asia for just me next Spring That will be Business Class.

Your kids will launch in a few years. They're also a little taller and you've got a long flight. I say go for it and make some memories.

 

[Aerides]

If I were only going to upgrade one leg, it's the return, because facing that flight at the end of a trip can be a drag. Of course, there's benefit to arriving refreshed as well, so it's a toss up sometimes.

But in your case, picture yourself on the last few days of your trip, after flying business, knowing you have the return coming up, and it's coach.

That person will be glad you upgraded, if they are anything like me.

All these decisions are case by case, but that's what I'd do, except I'd have left the kids in coach both ways - yours are old enough.

 

[pacergal]

If you have the money, it is OK to spend on something you prioritize.. You can always save in other areas.
We are taking our kids and grandkids to Hawaii, and we splurged on FC air for all. It will be an experience for the younger ones. We have started flying FC for the times we travel.
It won't harm the bottom line, especially if you are still working and adding to your investments.
Go and have fun!

 

[Sojourner]

If you are truly "fat", then I don't see any reason not to do it. Even though you're not RE yet, being fat implies that you can spend lavishly on things like business class air travel, 5-star hotels, expensive cars, etc. If, on the other hand, you are feeling anxious about your budget and worrying that buying occasional business class seats might impact your ability to spend in other areas that are not purely discretionary/entertainment/luxury, then IMHO you are not "fat". Regardless of definitions and terms, you should do it a) if your budget has plenty of headroom, b) it will make you happier than spending that money elsewhere, and c) it's an occasional splurge (i.e. don't let it become a regular habit... unless you are truly, honestly "fat"!).

 

[Sojourner]

We're FI, but not RE. Mostly because we're golden handcuffed right now for a bit and the kids are 9th adn 7th grade so we're tied to our area and it's not a hardship.

Here's a thought that might make both you and the kids happy. Splurge on the business class upgrade for yourself and your spouse, and put the kids in "premium select" (which is similar to domestic first class: wide, comfy seats that recline way back, better choice of drinks and food, other nice amenities, etc.). I think the kids would enjoy this just as much as biz class for probably 50% the cost (or less).

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I am not sure I'm ready to ditch the kids in coach.

No I just am curious how people who aren't RE. We save enough, but it's not moving the needle. The extra $5k isn't going to move the needle for us. I will admit to a cleaner, yard guy, and I work at most part-time is generous. I also admit to eating out, traveling, and pets. So yes we are very fat in our spending. But recently (the past year) i've come to a conclusion I'm not sure we're going to be able to spend all our savings. I think we've surpassed it and I suspect that when the golden handcuffs come off it's generational wealth we saved. Right now we are 7-8 figures. in a couple years more like 8-9 i suspect.

Wish LATAM had premium economy but economy plus is just the first row behind business. My mom should fly first class but doesn't. My in laws too. This weekend I realized I don't want to be like either of them. I want to enjoy whatever we have to the fullest. They are very kind and lbym people. But they should indulge themselves and really buy what they deserve.

This year i bought 1st class to austin for the eclipse, the difference was negligible between main and first I think seriously $100. I bought my mom a ticket and she freaked out. I lied and told her the roundtrip was $1000, it was $1000 one way. But she adored it. I wish I could get her to BTD. I don't want to be like her or my in laws.

Reading this from an ER site I'm buying my upgrade.

 

[athena53]

Good! I was married to a dear man who was 15 years older and the best of travel companions. When we married i was 50 and still working and he retired when we moved halfway across the country for my job although he brought in decent SS and a little freelance income, the latter for about 5 years.

We flew to Europe in Business Class on points once. He got spoiled. I blame it on the ice cream sundaes they made for him on the flight back home. He was also tall and had a creaky back. At some point (after a 4-day weekend flying from Newark to Edinburgh in Coach) he told me he really wanted to fly Business Class to Europe from then on. We made it work- I was doing a lot of business travel so accumulating miles, we had the branded credit cards and it was easier to get transatlantic Business on miles (once we had a round trip to Madrid for 50K miles each- sigh). Sometimes we'd pay for me and use miles for him. Our tastes other than that were simple- we were homebodies, rarely went out to eat, not into fancy cars or clothes other than my business wardrobe.

He died 2 years after I retired at 61 I don't regret one dime of what we spent on Business Class.

 

[Route246]

Just spend it if you have it if it provides a better experience. It took me a long time to come to terms with making these expenditures but we can't take it with us so we might as well enjoy some of it.

 

[marko]

How FatFire can one be if an extra few $K makes a difference?

 

[skyking1]

Yeah. I read a vague 7~8 figures tending to 8~9 and I sorta glazed over. Give up the "almost" and start living, OP.

 

[athena53]

How FatFire can one be if an extra few $K makes a difference?

You can still weigh the value of something to you. I wouldn't have spent another $5K when I replaced my car with a new Honda Civic even though I could have afforded it because cars mean little to me. $5K on a transatlantic Business Class flight? When do we leave?

 

[emmaswan]

I am not sure I'm ready to ditch the kids in coach.

No I just am curious how people who aren't RE. We save enough, but it's not moving the needle. The extra $5k isn't going to move the needle for us. I will admit to a cleaner, yard guy, and I work at most part-time is generous. I also admit to eating out, traveling, and pets. So yes we are very fat in our spending. But recently (the past year) i've come to a conclusion I'm not sure we're going to be able to spend all our savings. I think we've surpassed it and I suspect that when the golden handcuffs come off it's generational wealth we saved. Right now we are 7-8 figures. in a couple years more like 8-9 i suspect.

Wish LATAM had premium economy but economy plus is just the first row behind business. My mom should fly first class but doesn't. My in laws too. This weekend I realized I don't want to be like either of them. I want to enjoy whatever we have to the fullest. They are very kind and lbym people. But they should indulge themselves and really buy what they deserve.

This year i bought 1st class to austin for the eclipse, the difference was negligible between main and first I think seriously $100. I bought my mom a ticket and she freaked out. I lied and told her the roundtrip was $1000, it was $1000 one way. But she adored it. I wish I could get her to BTD. I don't want to be like her or my in laws.

Reading this from an ER site I'm buying my upgrade.

Your sentence about 8-9 figures in a couple of years -- does that mean you expect to be in the 100 million range in a couple of years? WOW!!

 

[marko]

Your sentence about 8-9 figures in a couple of years -- does that mean you expect to be in the 100 million range in a couple of years?

$100MM would/should pull in about $7MM a year. At that level the 4% "rule" should become purely academic. I wouldn't be stressing about coach vs business...I'd be flying private on a fractional.

 

[skyking1]

$100MM would/should pull in about $7MM a year. At that level the 4% "rule" should become purely academic. I wouldn't be stressing about coach vs business...I'd be flying private on a fractional.

For me it would be sitting right seat in something I like, with the left seater getting the good insurance rate for me.
This Citation X would do. Very fast and getting affordable.
https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/232283349/2004-cessna-citation-x-jet-aircraft

 

[livingalmostlarge]

It's a long story but DH did a startup and it went well. Handcuffed to revesting but we have to stay for the kids. I don't count it because what if he dies or something goes wrong? until it vests and is in our possession then it's ours. I also don't know depending on the market what the number exactly is until it hits kwim? Plus I don't actually spend it.

Sorry marko only 8 figures now and yes i get that's a lot in perspective but i don't feel it's enough to really BTD. Probably but I am not used to this lifestyle. We haven't changed houses or cars. We still bought a used tesla because well the new seemed ridiculous. We haven't told the kids or anyone but a lot of people have sort of inquired based on DH where he worked and ended up.

I only realized that I don't want to be like our parents. We already spend more on things we didn't expect like cleaners, eating out, yard guys, I don't work full time. But next level i'm just weirded out a bit. I'm getting there and starting to enjoy things and NOT sweat the small stuff. Before I would check every receipt, stick to a budget, and be more aware. Now I'm more like "that's in line, savings check, spending check". I used to freak out over $300 hotel rooms.

Now I look at time versus money. We have way more money than time. And I certainly did not expect to be in that position ever. We both didn't. We didn't expect to be making the money we made. We thought we'd be comfortable. Not super lucky. Plus cash flow wise we're stock portfolio rich but cash flow poor. We haven't really touched the stock except to sell and reinvest to diversify. I don't actually touch our portfolio, and I am thinking I just might.

 

[jollystomper]

It does not seem like you are flying monthly and spending on business class on every monthly trip. How many summers trips are you taking? If this is the only one, splurge and go for it. Very likely, by the time you retire you will look at your assets and not be able to tell that you spent this extra money .

 

[marko]

Now I look at time versus money. We have way more money than time. And I certainly did not expect to be in that position ever. We both didn't. We didn't expect to be making the money we made. We thought we'd be comfortable. Not super lucky. Plus cash flow wise we're stock portfolio rich but cash flow poor. We haven't really touched the stock except to sell and reinvest to diversify. I don't actually touch our portfolio, and I am thinking I just mimight.

I hope that eventually you'll start looking at money as more of a tool. What that tool should do is provide you with insulation from inconvenience, danger and discomfort and a way to buy more time.

If it were me, I'd stop wasting my time stressing about a few $K and start by getting Business seats all around.

 

[DrRoy]

We started taking nice trips before RE. Now we fly 1st class when it is overnight and we want a better chance to sleep.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

We're FI but not RE (maybe class of '24? '25?), and I've only flown Business Class twice; once it was a gift with someone else's miles, the other was Southwest "business class" that was only a few hundred more, but let us get the emergency exit row, which was nice. We just aren't able to travel that much now, but our NW is currently solidly in the mid 7 figures. At 8 figures I would probably fly business/first at least once a year, as that's easily a $350-400K/yr WR.

 

[Aerides]

When you joined 10 years ago your NW was well below 7 figures (600k ish) and you had a mortgage. Now, you have over 10m (8 figures) and don't feel you can btd?

Please find a way to enjoy your fortunes!

 

[pacergal]

If you have the money, it is OK to spend on something you prioritize.. You can always save in other areas.
We are taking our kids and grandkids to Hawaii, and we splurged on FC air for all. It will be an experience for the younger ones. We have started flying FC for the times we travel.
It won't harm the bottom line, especially if you are still working and adding to your investments.
Go and have fun!

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I don't know but we are moving to BTD. Trying to enjoy the journey

 

[marko]

For me it would be sitting right seat in something I like, with the left seater getting the good insurance rate for me.
This Citation X would do. Very fast and getting affordable.
https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/232283349/2004-cessna-citation-x-jet-aircraft

I have a photo somewhere of me sitting in the right seat of a 747 pretending to throw a few switches.

Believe it or not, back when the 747 first came out, you could walk into the airport, and the door to an idle 747 was open, they encouraged people to walk in and check it out.

A few buddies from my A&E school roamed all around the thing, took the elevator to the lower level and even sat in the cockpit. I swiped a plastic coffee cup! Nobody else around. In those days the upper level was a lounge with a piano.

Unimaginable today!

 

[skyking1]

I have a photo somewhere of me sitting in the right seat of a 747 pretending to throw a few switches.

Believe it or not, back when the 747 first came out, you could walk into the airport, and the door to an idle 747 was open, they encouraged people to walk in and check it out.

A few buddies from my A&E school roamed all around the thing, took the elevator to the lower level and even sat in the cockpit. I swiped a plastic coffee cup! Nobody else around. In those days the upper level was a lounge with a piano.

Unimaginable today!

I ferried and gave instruction to an aspiring young pilot across the US in the early 90's, in the twin engine Cessna 310 that his airline pilot father had purchased. His dad scared the crap out of me, trying to land the 310 at our home field. He was a 747 captain and his eye height wnen landing the 747 is about 80' above the runway, so here he comes in the 310, feeling for the runway at 80' up!! He was nibbling on crashing it right there.
He was clearly not qualified to handle an emergency in that plane, so I chatted him up at the pumps and we made an arrangement to get the plane to Florida, picking up his son in PHX along the way.
He used his credentials to get me on a flight home and when I was transferring in Atlanta I talked with the pilots at the gate and got to go into the cockpit of the 757 and sit in the jumpseat until we pushed back.
That was great. The jumpseat has this bird's eye view of what is going on.
One of the Nav displays was out, and I noticed a popped or pulled breaker in the panel on the ceiling but I just kept quiet. Not my place.
They called and this mechanic Jack of all Trades shows up with kneepads and coveralls on, spots the breaker and resets it.
Like you said, unimaginable today and so nice to share with a fellow aviator.