Blowing Our Cover

When I was in my twenties, people assumed I was a lot richer than I actually was. Now I'm a lot richer than people assume.
 
We are shopping for a home to upgrade to, primarily for AA purposes (reducing 95 percent equities position) and for a retirement project for me.

Problem is, my wife is uneasy about exposing our wealth to prying friends and family as our wealth is very stealth and well-concealed for the most part. I really don't care but she has sensitivities and feel her friends and family relationships might change if they find out we are truly FI as most of them are not. She has hinted that I recently inherited half of the proceeds of my parents' home but the truth is, we lived below our means and have been saving mostly in low expense ratio SP500-funds for the past 30+ years compounding tremendously along the way. Anyone with a decent wage who would have done this would probably also be surprised how close they are or how far they exceeded FI. It's not magic, it is just adherence to Bob Brinker's and John Bogle's methods of savings.

That said, I told her to just chill and accept the fact they will know we are FI and leave it at that. Not sure what I can do for her at this point but she values these relationships and does not want them to change.
So I don't understand the issue here. So you buy a bigger home. How do your wife's friends know whether you are now house poor or FI?

If your wife is not fully onboard with upgrading your house, that's a discussion you need to have. But if it just about appearances, move on!
 
I work with a guy, he was my direct report for many years but that was undone as I am retiring. He has never been married, lives modestly, hardly ever takes a vacation, and makes a huge income. And he has done this for 30+ years after leaving a very lucrative USG job. If he does not have a net worth over $5 million I'd be shocked. But I don't think any of our coworkers would have any clue.
 
I work with a guy, he was my direct report for many years but that was undone as I am retiring. He has never been married, lives modestly, hardly ever takes a vacation, and makes a huge income. And he has done this for 30+ years after leaving a very lucrative USG job. If he does not have a net worth over $5 million I'd be shocked. But I don't think any of our coworkers would have any clue.
So who cares?
My point is: the default assumption should be that everyone age 60 or higher in many occupations is Financially Independent to some degree or another.
All the technical staff approaching that age at my former employer certainly are.

But Lean FI might only mean income of $40k per year per person. That would be tough to live on with $11k property taxes, for instance.
Much better to be in a Fat FI situation with income of $200k per year per person.

So the safe assumption is that the MAJORITY of folks who have worked 30+ years in good jobs are now Financially Independent. It's almost hard not to be...
 
When I was in my twenties, people assumed I was a lot richer than I actually was. Now I'm a lot richer than people assume.
I can relate to the OP's concern. Last week I was speaking with a family member about a recent business success. Two days later, their kids were pestering me with extravagant birthday requests.

I shut it down quickly ("you have me confused for someone with money"), but it was a good reminder to avoid talking about these things with their parents in the future.
 
I can relate to the OP's concern. Last week I was speaking with a family member about a recent business success. Two days later, their kids were pestering me with extravagant birthday requests.

I shut it down quickly ("you have me confused for someone with money"), but it was a good reminder to avoid talking about these things with their parents in the future.
That’s crazy! I wonder how their kids got that message. Maybe: “Hey ask Great Uncle CO-guy for those birthday presents, he’s rich!”
 
I can relate to the OP's concern. Last week I was speaking with a family member about a recent business success. Two days later, their kids were pestering me with extravagant birthday requests.

I shut it down quickly ("you have me confused for someone with money"), but it was a good reminder to avoid talking about these things with their parents in the future.
My family has always assumed that I have money, without me ever saying a thing. To be fair, I actually have been the richest person in my family since the day I graduated from USNA in 1981.
 
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We keep a very tight lid on the magnitude of our financial success.

We drive older cars and live in a middle class neighborhood. Neighbors see me head out in a beat up company truck to a retiree job for a construction company a couple days a week. It’s a very fun job but am sure neighbors think I’m doing it to augment retirement income … which is definitely not the case!

Only ones who are aware of our success are our grown kids.
 
That’s crazy! I wonder how their kids got that message. Maybe: “Hey ask Great Uncle CO-guy for those birthday presents, he’s rich!”
I never mention specifics with finances, so my guess is that their parents were speculating out loud. It must have been some pretty wild speculation, because they asked me to buy them jet skis. Instead, I took them to the store yesterday and bought them each a new shirt and a pair of pants.
 
Threads of this type are fascinating, and baffling. My social circle is basically a point. If tomorrow my wealth fell by 90%, or increased 10-fold, socially nothing would change. There would be neither sympathy nor jealousy. My acquaintances, to the extent that I even have any, tend towards the impecunious. Those who have a bit of money, improve their material lives, largely eschewing investment. I am ignorant of what the wealthy do, knowing none such personally, except for one fellow, who is convinced that I'm an idiot (he's partially right) and therefore poor.

Thus also the reason for forums such as this, or Bogleheads. There's nobody in real-life with whom to discuss money or investment. All such musings move online, not because I'm cagey or falsely modest, but because one doesn't discuss steakhouses among vegetarians.
 
Thus also the reason for forums such as this, or Bogleheads. There's nobody in real-life with whom to discuss money or investment. All such musings move online, not because I'm cagey or falsely modest, but because one doesn't discuss steakhouses among vegetarians.
We don't discuss wealth amongst friends and family because it is considered impolite in the US culture. Where I grew up (overseas), people discuss money freely. Most of my friends back home are many times wealthier than us, as a condo costs at least a couple of million dollars, and "landed" property is in the region of tens of millions. Looking at where each person lives gives you a good gauge of their wealth.
 
Our neighbor told everyone we were drug dealers from Mexico when we paid cash for their friend's house. Can't make this stuff up, but still gives me a laugh to this day.

You can't control what people say or think. If they're good friends, you don't need to worry.
So Funny,

We had the opposite issue a couple of years after retirement, some neighbors gave me advice on getting a job at the local grocery store, because they saw I wasn't going to work anymore. :facepalm:
 
I tend to agree with the “real friends won’t care” and “other people actually don’t think that much about your situation “ groups. However, if it will create tension and cause friends and family to start asking for money then that is a problem. It is easy for strangers on the internet to say ignore it, but it is different when someone is staring you in the face.
 
I tend to agree with the “real friends won’t care” and “other people actually don’t think that much about your situation “ groups. However, if it will create tension and cause friends and family to start asking for money then that is a problem. It is easy for strangers on the internet to say ignore it, but it is different when someone is staring you in the face.
I'm thankful that all my close family and friends were gainfully employed and self sufficient. No one has ever asked me for money.

40 years ago my best friend was laid off a month after getting divorced. His furnace died and he didn't have enough to buy a new one. He didn't ask for money and I had only noticed when over there because the house was very cold. I lent him $1500 (he didn't ask) with no regrets. He paid me back in full a few months later.
 
We don't discuss wealth amongst friends and family because it is considered impolite in the US culture. Where I grew up (overseas), people discuss money freely. Most of my friends back home are many times wealthier than us, as a condo costs at least a couple of million dollars, and "landed" property is in the region of tens of millions. Looking at where each person lives gives you a good gauge of their wealth.
And where would that be?
Great Britain?
(I watched Downton Abbey back when it was on, so I know all about Ye Landed Gentry...)
 
We don't discuss wealth amongst friends and family because it is considered impolite in the US culture. Where I grew up (overseas), people discuss money freely.
I know in France it's impolite to even ask where in the city one lives as each neighborhood tends to imply an income level. Income is never discussed.
 
I know in France it's impolite to even ask where in the city one lives as each neighborhood tends to imply an income level. Income is never discussed.
I am aware of many places where it is considered impolite to discuss income, and I believe that it is universally boring.
 
We don't discuss wealth amongst friends and family because it is considered impolite in the US culture. Where I grew up (overseas), people discuss money freely. Most of my friends back home are many times wealthier than us, as a condo costs at least a couple of million dollars, and "landed" property is in the region of tens of millions. Looking at where each person lives gives you a good gauge of their wealth.
My closest friend is my cousin and he hasn't gotten many breaks in life. He has serious health problems and he works as a landscaper. His wife died in her late-20s and he's been single parenting since his daughter was 8. His daughter (my goddaughter) is amazing. She attended an elite preparatory school tuition free and was accepted into her choice of colleges. She received scholarships that covered tuition, room, board, books, and even flights (unlimited) to go home whenever she wanted for all 4 years.

Before she left for college, my friend confided to me that he was scared because he didn't know how he would even afford to visit her at school for things like parent weekends, etc. The next day I handed him a check for $10k to do whatever he felt he needed to support her through college as a father. It wasn't a loan and my only request was that we not discuss it ever again. That was 6 years ago and she's in grad school now. Other than this forum, the only people that know is my better-half and his daughter. We don't keep secrets from them, but the rest of the family are none the wiser.......and clearly for good reason.
 
We don't discuss wealth amongst friends and family because it is considered impolite in the US culture. Where I grew up (overseas), people discuss money freely. Most of my friends back home are many times wealthier than us, as a condo costs at least a couple of million dollars, and "landed" property is in the region of tens of millions. Looking at where each person lives gives you a good gauge of their wealth.
My lament was more about discussing investments, taxes, stocks vs. real estate, RMDs, indices vs. actively managed funds, that sort of thing... "normal" people don't broach these subjects... they're boring or irrelevant. Thus recourse to forums. My aim isn't a locker-room middle school comparison of who has the largest portfolio, but rather, to talk about finances instead of gossip or the latest thing on TV. Put another way, suppose that I wanted to discuss international stocks vs. US stocks, and whether US outperformance since the global financial crisis was a fluke or not... the result of policy choices, or not... whether it's sustainable, or not. Well, the only place to discuss such matters is online forums... not "in real life"!
 
I have some friends who are worth lots more than us. One is $100+ million, another $70+, and a third $12+. We don’t discuss money although I DIY while they outsource.

But when we go out together we always pay our share. We have enough ($5+ million) so can keep up with them where we want. We also have some other Nuevo Rico who flaunt it excessively. We are not as close to them.

I understand the problem you have with your DW. But when preserving the relationships means deferring your enjoyment I say full steam ahead and maybe offer to finance the odd dinner with them to share in the enjoyment?

It is a windfall when we look at how the markets have behaved! We are just tagging along for the ride!
 
My lament was more about discussing investments, taxes, stocks vs. real estate, RMDs, indices vs. actively managed funds, that sort of thing... "normal" people don't broach these subjects... they're boring or irrelevant. Thus recourse to forums. My aim isn't a locker-room middle school comparison of who has the largest portfolio, but rather, to talk about finances instead of gossip or the latest thing on TV. Put another way, suppose that I wanted to discuss international stocks vs. US stocks, and whether US outperformance since the global financial crisis was a fluke or not... the result of policy choices, or not... whether it's sustainable, or not. Well, the only place to discuss such matters is online forums... not "in real life"!
That's basically true most of the time.
But if you go to something like the annual Bogleheads Conference, then you can often get into the weeds with others...
 
We MYOB. We do not really care what others think about us. We keep our financial affairs very private. It was how we were raised by our parents.

We have a professional investment advisor and we read financial articles. If we had listened and followed the unsolicited advice/comments of so called experts or knowitalls our equity position would be much less attractive than it is today.

We do our own thing. Most of our friends are the same and do not judge others by what they have or do not have.

We do not particularly care what others have. Besides, neither of us think that a persons wealth or lack thereof is a very good measuring stick for anything.

Nor do we spend even two seconds on trying to compare ourselves, our financial position, our home, vehicles, etc to others. Seems like a huge waste of time and effort to us..

We see no purpose to it other than perhaps to nurse a fragile ego or some hidden insecurity.
 
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So I don't understand the issue here. So you buy a bigger home. How do your wife's friends know whether you are now house poor or FI?

If your wife is not fully onboard with upgrading your house, that's a discussion you need to have. But if it just about appearances, move on!
I've tried to explain it is not about friends or family directly. It is those on the fringe, the ones you can't easily isolate from such as casual neighbors, friends of friends, etc. It is not pervasive, either.

It is like being a landlord. You don't realize how inconvenient it is to always be on call for something until you get that call from your property manager or tenant. Neighbor told me they just sold their last rental property and he didn't realize how burned out he was getting preparing taxes, answering inquiries from the property management company and dealing with other interrupting issues. It is on the fringe.

I have no problems with it. My wife is uneasy.
 
My exact advise.... I just bought a newer truck, and have had several people make the "you must be rich" bitch.... I bitch back about barely able to make the payment.
How about telling them about all those daily lattes and nightly rounds of beer at the local bar you gave up to pay for the truck? ;) Most of us gave up and/or differed a lot of little pleasures to get to FIRE.
 
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