BTD with Miles and Points: No way can Cashback beat this!

[planuntilthefisthits]

There have been frequent debates about the wisdom of using travel rewards cards vs cash back card, with eloquent proponents on each side. I thought I share how I used my point stock to "purchase" a complex airline itinerary for the DW and I, and how using credit card points that turn into airline tickets was a no-brainer in my use case.

The cards: All Chase cards. My main card is the JPMR, with other cards being the Freedom Unlimited, Sapphire Preferred, and Freedom.

Utilization History: Since 2016 (when I moved from primarily using a United Select Card) I have averaged at least 2 cents per dollar spent. The is mostly due to the JPMR giving me 3X points for travel and dining, which I do a lot.

The Program: The Ultimate Rewards Program used to provide 50% bonus when travel was purchased through the UR program portal, or via the JPMR travel team. I said "used to" because that program changed for new points coming in, but the old points were grandfathered.

The Process: I could either purchase the airline tickets through the UR program (so that my 2 cents per dollar spend was now worth 2x1.5= 3 cents per dollar) or transfer the points to a partner airline. For each leg of the itinerary, I would engage in this research:

1. Check United Airlines site for how many miles were needed for travel between the cities. (United had the best itineraries and planes for most of the flights).
2. Compare United's mileage requirements vs how many UR points would be needed to purchase fully refundable tickets. (Fully refundable was very important as life changes. (If the tickets were obtained with United mileage, the cancelled tickets would refund to my United mileage account.)
3. Decide which purchase method required the least amount of points. If I used an airline partner, I would transfer the UR points to the airline program.
4. Note that for some of the flights, United Miles could not be used to purchase award tickets. I then purchased using the UR program.
5. One destination made no sense to use United, as Alaska Airlines had much better routing and was used.

The Seats: All were International Business/Domestic First, with the exception of a 30 minute flight that didn't have F.

The itinerary:

1. Home--Victoria, British Columbia (stay a few days seeing relatives)
2. Victoria--Chicago (stay a few days to see a relative)
3. Chicago-Dublin, Ireland (Board a cruise)
4. Reykjavik--Home

Total UR points, either used directly or transferred to United: 1,408,101.
Money it would have taken to purchase the journey: $31,494.

Cents per UR point transferred: 2.236 (But, each UR point was obtained an an initial rate of at least 2 cents/dollar spent. Some of the UR points were then multiplied by another 50%, but I'll ignore that for now). So, each dollar spent in accumulating the point total ended up creating over 4 cents per dollar value.

An additional benefit of using points for this purpose is that because all of the airline tickets are fully refundable, there is no requirement to bundle the monetary costs for trip insurance purposes. That also saves a lot of money.

Glad to answer any questions. Hope this helps someone!

 

[G POP]

Would have cost $31,494. What did it actually cost?

 

[planuntilthefisthits]

Would have cost $31,494. What did it actually cost?

Nothing but points and a few dollars in TSA taxes.

However, I guess one could say that I could have redeemed the points for cash, which would have been $14K. But that is imaginary money.

 

[Sojourner]

The itinerary:

1. Home--Victoria, British Columbia (stay a few days seeing relatives)
2. Victoria--Chicago (stay a few days to see a relative)
3. Chicago-Dublin, Ireland (Board a cruise)
4. Reykjavik--Home

Total UR points, either used directly or transferred to United: 1,408,101.
Money it would have taken to purchase each leg: $31,494.

So, you're saying it would have cost $31,000 to purchase each leg of this itinerary? So $31k just to go from Victoria to Chicago? Maybe I'm not understanding your nomenclature here. What would the entire trip have cost if you'd paid in cash vs. using your points?

 

[planuntilthefisthits]

So, you're saying it would have cost $31,000 to purchase each leg of this itinerary? So $31k just to go from Victoria to Chicago? Maybe I'm not understanding your nomenclature here. What would the entire trip have cost if you'd paid in cash vs. using your points?

Sorry about my poor wording choice. The dollar amount is for the entire journey. I've edited the OP.

 

[Sojourner]

Sorry about my poor wording choice. The dollar amount is for the entire journey. I am past the point in which I can edit the post.

Ahh, okay, thanks for clarifying. So you ended up getting about 2.2¢ per UR point you used. That's slightly higher than I've been getting for many years on my Citi DoubleCash card, so in that sense it's good. But I feel like there is a "cost" (mostly in time spent and ongoing mental effort) accruing those UR points through various means, such as sign-up bonuses, category spend, etc. Not sure—for me, at least—the extra 10% over a dead-simple 2% cashback card would be worth all that effort.

 

[planuntilthefisthits]

Ahh, okay, thanks for clarifying. So you ended up getting about 2.2¢ per UR point you used. That's slightly higher than I've been getting for many years on my Citi DoubleCash card, so in that sense it's good. But I feel like there is a "cost" (mostly in time spent and ongoing mental effort) accruing those UR points through various means, such as sign-up bonuses, category spend, etc. Not sure—for me, at least—the extra 10% over a dead-simple 2% cashback card would be worth all that effort.

We all have our cost-benefit analyses, but my return is over 4% per original dollar spent (as I mention in the OP).

 

[Koolau]

We all have our cost-benefit analyses, but my return is over 4% per original dollar spent (as I mention in the OP).

I HATE dealing with points. Even if they're better than cash back, points are always "different" each time and they can be devalued at a whim.

Having said that, I AM glad that OP was able to make this w*rk so successfully. Good on OP!!

 

[Texas Proud]

Hmm, how much was spent to get that million plus miles?

From what I have seen (not looking that much thought) international flights for FC are 'cheap' with miles...

And I wonder how long that took? I also would hate sitting on 1.4 million miles... heck, I had like 300K and was itching to spend them...

 

[planuntilthefisthits]

Hmm, how much was spent to get that million plus miles?

From what I have seen (not looking that much thought) international flights for FC are 'cheap' with miles...

And I wonder how long that took? I also would hate sitting on 1.4 million miles... heck, I had like 300K and was itching to spend them...

Regarding "cheap" FC miles: I wish this was the case for where I live and where I go and when I travel. I've been using miles since the 1980s, so this is not my first rodeo. I used to be able to get fantastic valuations, around 10-14 cents per mile. International F used to cost me 65K, now some of the flights are 333-400K. One issue is that I spend more miles to get the best routings (fewest connections, best plane configurations, best departure times, etc.). The best routings are priced way higher than sub-optimal itineraries.

Your question about how long it took to accumulate got me searching. The UR portal doesn't maintain a long history, but I did check four years worth of UR transfers to UA. This does not account for all of the UR transfers, as I've also sent some to Air Canada and IHG (hotel chain).

The UA data show 1.435 million points transferred to UA since 2022. Some of these points were acquired through initiation bonuses (at most 200K), the rest through organic spend. As I mentioned, my average point per dollar earned is over 2. So, If 1.2M was from organic spend, I must have charged about 500-600K on my cards over those four years. Probably more than that because there were other UR transfer to other entities.

 

[Surewhitey]

I prefer the simplicity of the 2% cash from the Fidelity card, but I can't deny the value DW gets using AA miles. We've traveled to Europe, direct, for a few years now on ~45k round trip miles (albeit economy). The flexibility of canceling & rebook is a plus too using miles. Sometimes we change our return flight to extend the trip without penalty.

When the miles dwindle, we sign up for the next bonus miles card, usually ~80k miles.

 

[Sorcerer]

Look into credit card churning. Been churning for the past 16 years. Manufactured spending used to be easier but if you're like most people, monthly spending will hit requirements for sign up bonus.

 

[Texas Proud]

Look into credit card churning. Been churning for the past 16 years. Manufactured spending used to be easier but if you're like most people, monthly spending will hit requirements for sign up bonus.

Yea... like back when was BIL was alive... buying coins and then depositing them... at the time free shipping...

Not sure how long he did this or how much he got...

He was also playing the 0% interest game investing the money... kept detail records of which card needed to be paid and when the 0% stopped to pay it off before then...

 

[Texas Proud]

OP, that is some pretty good miles... it would take me 6 to 10 years to get that many miles and that is if I bought everything with that card..

Good for you!!

 

[OldConch]

OP, that is some pretty good miles... it would take me 6 to 10 years to get that many miles and that is if I bought everything with that card..

Good for you!!

It's not as hard as you might think to earn a boat load of points/miles with every day spending. DW and I use the "TravelFreely" to help manage our credit cards. Great app and it's free. TF shows that we earned 890,000 points in 2025 and 4.67 million since 2020.

Redeeming points is difficult but certainly not impossible. We're flying from the west coast r/t across the Atlantic twice and once across the Pacific in 2026 - all in the front of the plane. Total cost was about $2800 cash and approximately 720,000 miles of various currencies.

It can be done.

 

[OldConch]

Should have added that we opened 7 new cards in 2025.

 

[Texas Proud]

Should have added that we opened 7 new cards in 2025.

LOL... getting all those bonus points helps I bet..

 

[Chuckanut]

When the miles dwindle, we sign up for the next bonus miles card, usually ~80k miles.

80k sounds like a lot of miles, but depending on the airline and the class of travel, it may not buy a person more than one or two round trips in coach.

I was recently offered 60K miles to switch to a new version of my airline card. Sounds good but…. My old card gives me a $99 fare every year. Period. The new card requires $6000 of spend on the card to earn next year’s $99 fare. I kept my old card.

As usual the Devil is in the details.

 

[CaptTom]

Travel is discretionary. Cash is fungible. Where I see the benefit of "points" is if you're going to travel anyway, and you know how to navigate travel purchases such that you're using your points wisely and know the real prices you're avoiding. Not the "list price" or "rack rate," but the real price you'd pay if you used the right web sites, picked the right times and destinations, etc.

Personally, I stick with what I know. I know what a dollar is worth. I know how to decide which discretionary purchases I want to BTD on at any given point. I know how to find the best deals on whatever that purchase turns out to be, whether it's travel or something else completely.

I have no interest in "points" of indeterminate value, which can only be used in limited ways. Especially since both the value, and how they can be used, can change at any time.

 

[Surewhitey]

80k sounds like a lot of miles, but depending on the airline and the class of travel, it may not buy a person more than one or two round trips in coach.

I was recently offered 60K miles to switch to a new version of my airline card. Sounds good but…. My old card gives me a $99 fare every year. Period. The new card requires $6000 of spend on the card to earn next year’s $99 fare. I kept my old card.

As usual the Devil is in the details.

We just booked direct r/t to Zurich for ~45k miles, so 80k is pretty nice and AA's main hub is here in DFW. Very usable...

 

[pb4uski]

OP is cherry picking a comparison by using the cost of fully refundable tickets as a comparison. Gemini tells me that United international standard/non-refundable fares are 25%-50% of fully refundable fares. And even if your plans change you only pay the fare difference and if you cancel you can get a credit towards a future flight for on year. How many here would chose a trip that is fully-refundable for $31,494 vs standard fares of $7,873 - $15.747?

I prefer 2% cash back. It's simple and less hoops to jump through. Similarly, I prefer flat 2% cash back on everything to rotating categories and such gimmicks.

 

[Dtail]

Travel is discretionary. Cash is fungible. Where I see the benefit of "points" is if you're going to travel anyway, and you know how to navigate travel purchases such that you're using your points wisely and know the real prices you're avoiding. Not the "list price" or "rack rate," but the real price you'd pay if you used the right web sites, picked the right times and destinations, etc.

Personally, I stick with what I know. I know what a dollar is worth. I know how to decide which discretionary purchases I want to BTD on at any given point. I know how to find the best deals on whatever that purchase turns out to be, whether it's travel or something else completely.

I have no interest in "points" of indeterminate value, which can only be used in limited ways. Especially since both the value, and how they can be used, can change at any time.

I am with you, plus I do like keeping track of the cash rewards and the maximization of it.

 

[Spock]

I'll never fly anywhere again without a gun to my head... so cash back it is.

 

[PhrugalPhan]

He was also playing the 0% interest game investing the money... kept detail records of which card needed to be paid and when the 0% stopped to pay it off before then...

Oh those were the days. I sure miss them. I was only able to do that for one year & made a little over $5,000. I was still paying off my house, so I didn't have tons to invest. That money was a godsend.

 

[FIYes]

I have used points/miles to extend our travel budget. I haven’t been able to book the good business class deals that some people find. However, I’ve been able to take economy trips that I might otherwise have foregone.

I understand the debate between cash back and points. One psychological benefit of points is I feel free to blow the dough on travel with points. We have stayed in upgraded hotels using points instead of Motel 6. Points have positively impacted our travel in both quality and quantity.

The way I’ve been able to accumulate points is by using the sign up bonuses. Unfortunately, it seems that companies are cutting back on the frequency with which sign up bonuses are offered. One thing that has helped with sign up bonuses is switching back and forth between DH and me.