Bucket Europe plan- wacky? Critique and/or advise

GoodbyeYellow

Recycles dryer sheets
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We are in our mid-sixties what some of our friends call well-traveled (but we dont, lol) and almost simultaneously thought of what our bucket list might include, although travel in the past has just been 'pick a place and go'.

That place has most often been Europe, where we've taken 2 to 4 week vacations over the past 20 years, about a dozen trips or a bit more. We've done the greatest hits, some more than once. Occasionally ventured outside Europe and while Japan is exquisite, we are good there. Maybe China one day.

This year, we are already on our second Europe trip, although the first one was "only" two weeks. To make up for it, the current one (typing this on a train en route to Stockholm) is five weeks, Scandinavia and Iceland.

We have moved solidly into slow travel mode, shying away from any stop less than 3 nights, and try to do 4 or 5 though less sometimes happens.

OK on to the bucket... we really want to do the parts of (mostly Western) Europe we've either missed or want to revisit. In the former camp is Poland, S. France, N. Italy, Switzerland, perhaps a river cruise. In the latter is England, which we can't seem to get enough of (yep, it's the language thing!)

So one idea, combined with the fact that we are west-coast USA and hate flying (though we are now working on Biz class whenever feasible), is to 'set up camp' in London, with a few excursions to the unvisited places above. This may even be as much as four months in total, beginning around Labor Day.

So for example (this is just top of head), 10 days in one part of London, then the coldest area (Poland?) for 10 days then back to London but in a different part of the city, and so on, working our way southwards in Europe (but not too far south, as seen in the list. I suppose Sicily may be included but you get the idea). We would not script all of it up front but plan one to two trips ahead.

At our ages and what we believe is average fitness for that age, we are a bit concerned about running out of steam partway through. We could get an open return date on say BA, and be flexible I suppose.

Questions:
1. Is this crazy? Obviously there's a ton of logistics left but am i missing a major point here? We have thought about continuity of prescriptions but it's something we'll inquire about when we get back. No pets or significant plants, no major social or family commitments.

2. How would YOU structure such a trip, given the info above? Of course weather will dictate a good bit of the steps.

3. What good options exist in London to store a bag or two for a week or two that aren't too pricey? This way we can bring more stuff on the long flight (but still not a lot, I'm thinking 2 x 32 kg is probably still good enough, or maybe a bit more.

4. Anything else that comes to mind for you?
 
I would say "crazy" because there is a whole world out there that you are completely missing: Taj Mahal, Pyramids, Galapagos, South Africa, East Africa, China, Japan, IndoChina, ... IMO Europe and the UK are boring compared to what's out there in the world. (FWIW we have visited over 40 countries.)
 
I think it is feasible, yes. I think you can leave return open as you suggest and leave when you get "tired".

If you love London, stay there. But might be easier to set up camp in inside the EU if travel logistics are an issue.

When you say you have done the "greatest hits" it makes me think you have been doing the most obvious things in the most obvious places. We try to limit those elements and go to less crowded less obvious places within the same places you are probably visiting. There is only one London, one Rome and one Paris, granted, but lots of other places that are very beautiful, unique and less travelled. Also cheaper and perhaps more welcoming to those pesky tourists!

I think your travel approach in terms of limiting single night stays makes a lot of sense.

Sounds fun, enjoy!
 
It sounds feasible, but depending on how long the whole trip lasts you may have to watch the Schengen area stay limits. They will ban you for a year or two if you overstay by even a couple of days.

Also, I know you can stay longer in the UK, but I wonder if any border guards will have a problem when you keep re-entering without showing any plans for onward travel.
 
If Western Europe was my primary goal, I'm not sure I would "base" myself in London due to travel distances (and because I detest flying through Heathrow). But if you are wanting to be gone for 4 months, spending at least some time in the UK is a good idea because you can use that time to stay within the Schengen limits (90 days) for the other countries.

Depending on where you are planning to go, you might want to do the colder areas all in a row (ie Poland, Switzerland, N. Italy) and then go back to London, especially if you are planning to self-drive those countries. Just a couple years ago we were in the Dolomites and it snowed heavily in early September and we had to alter driving plans and hotels because it took time to clear one of the mountain passes.

We regularly do long-term trips of two to three months. Sometimes we just rent three monthlong apartments in three different places. Other times we move around a lot. Regardless we always just bring a carryon-sized bag and backpack, so I don't have any experience with storing bags although I'm sure there are places around the major train stations in the UK that will either do locker-type storage or storeroom-type.

If you worry about running out of steam, maybe plan a (long-ish two-week or more) apartment stay midway through your trip in a city that has enough to see/do where you won't get bored but not so much that you are trying to do more than one or two sightseeing things a day.

Enjoy your travels (and the planning!).
 
I love traveling to Europe and the reason why is because it’s an easy place to relax and enjoy.

Personally, I wouldn’t choose a home base. Instead, pack light, a carry on size suitcase that you can easily handle. Then choose your first city and stay there a week. If you enjoy it, stay longer, and if not, then move on to the next city. Minimize pre-booking anything except your first city. You can always find lodging.

In our current trip to Lyon, DS texted me that our Airbnb was canceled due to “water damage.” We took separate flights there and he was there earlier. I was on the train from CDG to Lyon. We think the host double booked the place, but not much we could do. I booked one night at the Marriott and that night we found another Airbnb for the rest of our trip. It all worked out and we had a good time.

I point this out because you’ll always be able to find somewhere to stay. Also, most Airbnbs will have a washer (and dryer if you’re lucky), so laundry is less of an issue. You would have to do some on the spot trip planning, but if you’re not in a hurry, then it’ll become easy. Wake up, decide you want to move on, do a little research, book a train/plane, a place to stay and you’re good to go.

But whatever you decide, I say go for it. Nothing crazy about it.
 
I think it's smart, actually. The money you save on traveling back and forth to the US can be spent on more travel there, and you only have to deal with jet lag once instead of multiple times.

I don't have any prescriptions but the other logistical things I think about are mail, bills, and trash service.

In general, there are a lot of people doing what you're doing, so any problem you can think of already has a solution to it. There are luggage storage businesses all over the place in major cities - just google it and pick one.

I'd probably base myself in Portugal or France rather than the UK. Fair amount of expats everywhere I think but a lot in Portugal. France is just because I speak some French.

The Schengen limits apply but a quick hop over to the UK resets the clock I think.

Traveling in such a spontaneous mode is a learned skill, and you're not too old to acquire it if you decide to. Good luck.
 
The Schengen limits apply but a quick hop over to the UK resets the clock I think.
From Google:

The Schengen Area limits non-EU/EEA travelers to a maximum stay of 90 days within any rolling 180-day period.

  • Rolling Window: The 180-day period is not fixed; it is a moving window. Every time you enter or are physically in the zone, you must look back exactly 180 days from that date. You cannot have spent more than 90 cumulative days there during that 180-day stretch.

  • Multiple Entries: You can leave and re-enter as many times as you like, as long as your total days inside the zone don't breach the limit.

  • Validity: Your passport must be valid for at least 3 months beyond your planned departure date.
 
I travel full time, and have for the last 6 years. I would not "set up base" anywhere. Lots of time and expense to get to and from the airports. Lots of airport hassles. My MO is to go somewhere, stay for a month or two, then move on. DW and I rent airbnbs with washers (no dryers) to limit what we have to take. Occasionally, we take a train to another region or city for a night or three with only a backpack each. We leave our big bag at the airbnb, which we rented at a significant discount as it was 4 weeks or longer. For example, we spent a month in the mountains near Bolzano, 2 months in Grindelwald, 6 weeks in a farmhouse near Carcassone. Have not been to Poland yet. 2x32kg is waaaaay too much. I'd aim for 2x 20kg, which is what DW and I do. Others on this site travel for months with much less than me.
 
For the South of France, no I would not setup camp in london. I would setup camp in Provence, Nice, and day trip from there. You can do it slow and easily fill 10-14 days just in that area, heck I could spread that out to a month alone.

If you were to do a 4 month trip, I'd look at maybe setting up places for 2-4 weeks at a time and then mapping out from each, then moving on to the next. And yes do look at weather to plan things out. That's a LOT of packing though as you'll have a lot of seasonal changes.

Sounds amazing though!
 
Maybe you can ship ahead some location-specific clothes and ship them back home at each stop, and only carry your essentials. Then you don't need a home base. Trains on the continent are very reliable and easy to use. Probably worth getting a Eurail pass if you do that.
 
I wouldn't want to have to constantly exit and re-enter the UK. I'd rather be based in the EU if the excursions are to EU locations, then maybe do the UK at the start or end of it. There would just be too much time spent in line at Immigrations and Customs.

Maybe base yourself in Germany, since it's the next country that easiest for most Americans to navigate.
 
When you go to Poland be sure and visit krakow. It’s such a beautiful and amazing city. I’ve been there twice and it’s my favorite city in Poland and one of my favorites of all of Europe.

Also be sure and visit the salt mines which are close to krakow. The miners carved statues and little chapels from different religions underground made out of salt.
 
We’ve done long Europe trips but we always move our base every few days. Fly into one city and return home from another.

We’ve also easily found decent laundromats so didn’t need a place with washer/dryer.
 
The Schengen limits apply but a quick hop over to the UK resets the clock I think.

Sorry but this is NOT correct.

The Schengen 90-in-180-day limit is not reset by anything other than time. At all points during your stay you must be able to say that you were in the Schengen area for less than 90 out of the past 180 days. Leaving the Schengen area (e.g., going to the UK or Ireland) stops the days increasing, but does not reset anything. Many people incorrectly believe this (because there are lots of borders where a 1-day-out hop does indeed reset the counter), but Schengen does not come into this category.

In practice, for a 120-day total stay in Europe, OP needs to spend 30 or more days in the UK (or Ireland). That split can be done in any order.
 
No way would I Heathrow-torture myself, as your plan would suggest. No way.
 
Sorry but this is NOT correct.

The Schengen 90-in-180-day limit is not reset by anything other than time. At all points during your stay you must be able to say that you were in the Schengen area for less than 90 out of the past 180 days. Leaving the Schengen area (e.g., going to the UK or Ireland) stops the days increasing, but does not reset anything. Many people incorrectly believe this (because there are lots of borders where a 1-day-out hop does indeed reset the counter), but Schengen does not come into this category.

In practice, for a 120-day total stay in Europe, OP needs to spend 30 or more days in the UK (or Ireland). That split can be done in any order.

TIL. Thanks.

I was guessing based on a couple of expat friends who live in Portugal and seem to hop out of Schengen every 90 days or so but only for a few days. Perhaps they have some sort of longer term visa or something where the rules for them are different. 🤷
 
TIL. Thanks.

I was guessing based on a couple of expat friends who live in Portugal and seem to hop out of Schengen every 90 days or so but only for a few days. Perhaps they have some sort of longer term visa or something where the rules for them are different. 🤷
If they do indeed have a longer term visa (I hope so, if they live there!), leading to a residence permit, then they do not need to "hop out" at all, at any time and for any purpose.

So either they are just going away for vacation, or they have been misinformed about the rules, do not have proper residence permits, and will find themselves being deported at some point. Up to you if you want to ask them which it is, I guess.

(My experience since I moved to Mallorca is that there are quite a lot of expats here who seem to be genteel upper-middle-class types, but in fact are 100% winging it either financially, or visa-wise, or in some cases both. DW and I have stopped making conversation about residency status because of the number of times when there has been a bit of coughing and the subject has been changed.)
 
^ Eh, they're grown adults and can handle themselves I'm sure.
 
Pack lighter. If you need something they have stores. Other than that sounds like a plan. We travel similar to this. We have a month coming up later in the summer using London as our main transit center. Long term hoping to do 1-2 months in Asia with Bangkok as our home base. Also, I would look for last minute AirBNB/VRBO deals. You can find amazing deals a few days out. Test it anytime to get a feel for the kind of pricing you can get.
 
We definitely believe in doing things in depth, with longer stays in one place. We would not keep returning back to London as you suggested, but would move from one area on to the next, until we were done.
 
Let's see if I can answer your questions. We are currently splitting our time between the US and the South of France (and 40 minutes from the Italian border), and have recently returned from 6+ months (on a passive income visitor visa). We've been doing this for a while. We probably will transition to a 12 month visa next year. I was also an expat in Switzerland and went frequently to Italy. We've encountered many people doing extended slow travel, sometimes retired, sometimes digital nomads and sometimes almost permanently. Others are on scouting trips. We have used our base as a launching pad to other places (including India and Nepal this past trip, which is much easier to get to from our location than from the west coast US).

The 90 in 180 day is real, and I suspect enforcement will be easier with the new EES. There are people who do the "Schengen shuffle", then spend 90 outside of the zone,

You might consider mulitple bases. AirBnBs or seasonable rentals cost less for out of season stays of 30+ days. You can use a base to visit other nearby areas through day trips or short trips. If you indeed want to leave a bag behind, some hosts may accommodate it or you can use Bounce or Luggage Hero or a similar service to find a location. Costs range from 7USD and above per day.

Ordering wise I might consider Switzerland first, as the weather can decline quickly throughout September. This can also be the most expensive, so you may want to travel more quickly. Poland might make sense next, due to the weather, although without an alpine component (and much of what people want to see are indoors) Krakow was great as was Warsaw. I spent two weeks in the overall region last summer, on a two week jaunt from our place in France. If you have time, I would consider hitting Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia as well. Super easy to get around with English and super inexpensive, but safe and very welcoming., and I did it car free

Northern Italy or the South of France could come next. You could base in Bologna or in Tuscany. In the south of France you could pick a single base or two, if you prefer. Be careful will smaller towns as they can be seasonal (shut down from October) and you will want to pick places with rainy day alternatives as you stretch deeper into the Fall.

You can actually do a long term car lease of >30 days in Southern France and Northern Italy pretty cost effecctively through one of the Pugeot/Citreon/AutoEurope programs. However, in certain places like Nice/Cote d'Azur it is not needed at all. In places in the countryside of Provence and Tuscany

We met a forum member who was in our city, while basing in another part of the country, perhaps they will chime in.
 
We are currently splitting our time between the US and the South of France (and 40 minutes from the Italian border), and have recently returned from 6+ months (on a passive income visitor visa). We've been doing this for a while. We probably will transition to a 12 month visa next year.
I have been wondering about the French "extended-stay for tourists" visa. I assumed that you couldn't renew it, at least not indefinitely, as they would want you to become a tax resident of France. Can I ask what you have been told about using this visa on a multi-year basis?
 
I have been wondering about the French "extended-stay for tourists" visa. I assumed that you couldn't renew it, at least not indefinitely, as they would want you to become a tax resident of France. Can I ask what you have been told about using this visa on a multi-year basis?
There two types of long stay visitor visas:
VLS-T For 3 to 6 months, non-renewable
VLS-TS for 3 to 12 months, but for the next year, you actually apply in a similar fashion for a temporary residency card (carte de residence temporaire). This then can be renewed annually. After five years in the country, you can then apply for a 10 yr residency card, but it requires passing a civics exam and certification of a B-1 language level (currently waived at 65+). Citizenship is also possible at this point with a B-2 level but currently requires a recent history of French-based income.
 
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