Business or 1st Class Flights?

[Out of Steam]

I've never paid for a premium airline seat, but after our trip to Croatia this spring, I decided that 8 hours in economy class (DC-Frankfurt) is the limit of my endurance.

Any trip I take across the Pacific will have to be in premium economy at a minimum.

 

[oiseux]

I’m curious how much a couple that spends $5–7k on plane tickets usually spends on accommodations, because I never fly for that kind of money.

Our long haul travel is now all in business. But for accommodations, our price standards varies a lot on destination and time of year, we tend to pay for location first, and then just a minimum standard of comfort and services, but not super high end (some exceptions) as we don't enjoy features like butler service or overly formal locations. If we want more space we just get a well serviced apartment.

For all of you folks recommending lie-flat seats... how do you fit? I mean width, not length. Can you lie down on your back, akin to a corpse in a coffin, and fit your shoulders without hunching them or straining, within the confines of the seat?

There are some configurations that are snugger than the others in lie down mode, especially in certain newer generation Airbus pods.

 

[Fermion]

We were having this discussion the other day while doing our walk. Both the wife and I decided that if we fly at all, from now on it will be first class. This likely means we won't fly very often as we will want to see the value (cost vs enjoyment) but I am just not willing to subject myself to cattle car steerage just to see beauty that likely can be found on a road trip where you are in control.

ie, if first class tickets for two to Europe were $12,000, I would instead rent a house with a dock on a big lake or the ocean for a month for that amount and take our smaller sailboat on a road trip to said house. The value would be better imo.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We were having this discussion the other day while doing our walk. Both the wife and I decided that if we fly at all, from now on it will be first class. This likely means we won't fly very often as we will want to see the value (cost vs enjoyment) but I am just not willing to subject myself to cattle car steerage just to see beauty that likely can be found on a road trip where you are in control.

ie, if first class tickets for two to Europe were $12,000, I would instead rent a house with a dock on a big lake or the ocean for a month for that amount and take our smaller sailboat on a road trip to said house. The value would be better imo.

Our discretionary spendings is large and in response to your post, I would do both. Fly to wherever in comfort when we want to go to places that we would like to go to and also go via land to other places. We hate flying, so we limit trips which require flying but when we do we want to do it in the least uncomfortable manner. We spend winters and summers away from home and those are almost always drive-to locations, 4 to 6 hour drives

 

[Fermion]

Our discretionary spendings is large and in response to your post, I would do both. Fly to wherever in comfort when we want to go to places that we would like to go to and also go via land to other places. We hate flying, so we limit trips which require flying but when we do we want to do it in the least uncomfortable manner. We spend winters and summers away from home and those are almost always drive-to locations, 4 to 6 hour drives

Sounds reasonable. We didn't stay in the workforce long enough to have an unlimited budget but if we rank things on cost/enjoyment we are finding we have plenty of discretionary budget to do interesting things. I think our Great Loop leg we did earlier this year was cheaper than some Europe or Asia trips even after buying the boat! To me that is value because it was quite the adventure. We are eying a narrow boat trip in the UK at some point and will probably couple that with a train trip to visit a friend in Switzerland. That would be enough of a trip to be worth the (I just checked) $4900 per person first class fare from Spokane to London since we would be spending a month or a bit longer over there.

 

[NoiseBoy]

I flew Turkish Airlines Business class from Chicago to Bangkok in 2024. It was my first experience with flying international business class and I enjoyed it. As someone else mentioned up thread, my trip had two legs of roughly 10 hours with a stop over in Istanbul. Their business class lounge in Istanbul is fantastic and I didn't mind the fact that the stop over meant that my total travel time was around 24 hours. I flew on two different planes and both had lie flat seats for business class. However, these were older designs so the seats are still next to one another instead of being "pods" or the alternating layout that is used more often now. It was fine, but I did have to step over my neighbors "bed" once to use the restroom after we'd both put our seats all the way down. Overall, I can recommend their business class product, especially if you can catch a deal as I did ($4,000 round-trip ORD to BKK).

Regarding flying First class vs. Business class, I think you will have to do some research on the products offered by the airlines you are considering. I mostly fly to Europe and there are very few true First Class offerings on that route from Chicago these days, but I think First Class to Asia is still a thing. If this is a BTD trip, then you may want to check into flying Emirates if that's an option.

As an FYI; the combo that I like now for flights to Europe from Chicago, which are roughly 8 hours, is a Premium Economy class seat but with lounge access added. I've found that I really enjoy a quieter place to sit, while sipping a cocktail, to wait for my flight. If I go back to Asia, I will BTD to fly in business class for the lie flat seat. If the markets hang onto their gains this year, I may just BTD for business class next year anyway

 

[athena53]

I need to shop around more for better fares in Business Class. After this discussion I went on the AA site to check on fares for my trip to Europe next October. They had a few one-way routings for 57,500 miles plus $738 in fees. (Yeah, I know, the fees are pretty awful.) That's about half the miles required for other routings. Some of them had unacceptably short connection times and one required a transfer between DCA and IAD! Nope. The one I chose had 5 hours in ORD- fine with me since I can hang out in the lounge. The trip home didn't have any bargains but wasn't much more than half the cash price for round trip and I had a credit from a previously cancelled flight so very little out of pocket. I'm happy!

 

[fosterscik]

FYI Athena. We regularly fly into DCA and out of IAD. The DC metro between the two is fast clean and reliable and no real problem even while dragging large suitcases. I wouldn't let that put you off as long as the layover is long enough.
We usually fly into DCA mid morning and visit a Smithsonian or walk around the mall before flying internationally late in the evening out of IAD. It makes a nice break although we haven't found a go to place for lunch yet.

 

[bonvoyage]

I need to shop around more for better fares in Business Class. After this discussion I went on the AA site to check on fares for my trip to Europe next October. They had a few one-way routings for 57,500 miles plus $738 in fees. (Yeah, I know, the fees are pretty awful.) That's about half the miles required for other routings. Some of them had unacceptably short connection times and one required a transfer between DCA and IAD! Nope. The one I chose had 5 hours in ORD- fine with me since I can hang out in the lounge. The trip home didn't have any bargains but wasn't much more than half the cash price for round trip and I had a credit from a previously cancelled flight so very little out of pocket. I'm happy!

It might be a bit too early to look for tickets for next October - I usually find the sweet spot to be between 5 to three months before the trip. Many airlines don't have their schedules fully in place this far in advance and often have place-holder fares which nobody is expected to book.

 

[Faithinvesting4]

Hi Folks,

I've been retired now for the past 11 months and have always wanted to fly business or first class on a long international flight. I've always flown economy plus or economy but that isn't as comfortable when flying long distances (my back and butt get sore). I'm looking to travel to Asia or SE Asia some time in 2026 or 2027 (China, Japan, S Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc).

What Airlines or destinations do you recommend and is business class adequate or 1st class? I know there's a big price discrepancy between the two. Cost isn'tan issue as long as it's not too ridiculous. I'm mainly looking for lie flat seating. No need for extra leg room since I'm short.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

I recently took an amazing trip to Tokyo. We flew United Polaris and had a wonderful experience.

 

[bluelight]

My daughter and I were bumped to business from PE on our return trip from London to JFK last year. Lay flat seats but didn't need them during the day. It was still a wonderful experience, but not one that I can justify on my dime. Damn my frugalness. I'm willing to pay for larger, nicer hotel rooms but just can't pull the plug on expensive flights.

 

[Global Wizzo]

Hi Folks,

I've been retired now for the past 11 months and have always wanted to fly business or first class on a long international flight. I've always flown economy plus or economy but that isn't as comfortable when flying long distances (my back and butt get sore). I'm looking to travel to Asia or SE Asia some time in 2026 or 2027 (China, Japan, S Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc).

What Airlines or destinations do you recommend and is business class adequate or 1st class? I know there's a big price discrepancy between the two. Cost isn'tan issue as long as it's not too ridiculous. I'm mainly looking for lie flat seating. No need for extra leg room since I'm short.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

I'll jump in here.
I traveled globally for work for 20 years. Company policy varied with business only initially to business only beyond Europe.

We are fine on Delta C+ to Europe. We like the Middle East and Asia and have seen a good portion of the world. I never thought I'd enjoy cruising after watching the monster floating theme parks at Port Canaveral, But I thoroughly enjoy the Viking Ocean Cruises.

Our travel is a mix of flights and cruises and I'll give you an idea of what is planned for this year. We pay for business and when I can, use status or points to upgrade, but that is few and far between these days.

Jan. California trip. Upgrades came through. Entire trip domestic first class. Comfort + booked and would have worked.
Feb. Combination Air and Ocean Cruise. C+ from Florida to Bergen, Norway & Return. Viking Ocean for two weeks.
March. Domestic Drive trip for 10 days.
April. Azerbaijan. This one is Business Class. Thought we would give Turkish Air a try. One week trip.
May. Copenhagen/Viking Cruise. C+ on Delta Round Trip
June. Family trip to Dubai. All Emirates Business Class. 16 days.
July. Open
Aug/Sep. Air and Viking Mekong River Cruise (Vietnam) Air is Emirates Business. RT
Oct. Air and Viking Ocean, Hong Kong to Bangkok. Emirates Business.
Nov. Two Weeks Seoul Korea. Delta One using Upgrades.
Dec. Poland, Two Week Driving trip for Christmas Markets. Air is Delta C+

When you book airline seats, if not booking at lie flat business, take a look at the recline and the seat pitch. For Delta, C+ and Premium Select both have a 7" recline. little more legroom in some PS seats, but I can live with the C+ seat. Pitch is distance between seats from front leg to front leg. More is always better for both pitch and recline.

Internationally, there is a tremendous difference between airlines in business and first class. I wouldn't pay for FC seats. Airlines like Singapore, Qatar, Emirates and Etihad have a very good hard and soft product. Had the opportunity to upgrade a few times to Emirates First Class. Amazing experience and getting a shower at the end of a 12-hour flight is a real plus. If you want to blow the dough, fly first class on one of these carriers.

Compare business fares. Europe business is now $3-4K RT. That is typically $5500 more than coachI can get to Cairo, Bangkok and Singapore for just a little more. . I can find a better hotel to spend that in.

When you look at the upgrade offers after booking, sometimes the upgrade price is more that the RT FC ticket. Check before you pull that trigger. The rule of thumb I've seen for overwater upgrades is $100/hour or less, maybe worth it. You need to make that decision.

Enjoy your travel.

 

[frank05]

It looks like Delta will be the first US airline to unbundle business/first class following airlines unbundling economy. Expect to pay extra for seat selection, lounge access, bag check, etc.

 

[bonvoyage]

It looks like Delta will be the first US airline to unbundle business/first class following airlines unbundling economy. Expect to pay extra for seat selection, lounge access, bag check, etc.

I am used to this ticket unbundling on international business class. It's annoying but usually there is a clear winner in terms of options. Some observations from recent trips:

British Airways: You get lounge access with all business class tickets but you generally have to pay for advance seat selection (could be free based on status). However, In the new Club Suites configuration there are really no bad seats so I never pay for this. Also, which lounge you get to use in LHR t5 depends on status. If you're gold or above, you get to use the First lounge.

Emirates: If your ticket is in the the "special" fare class, you don't get advance seat selection and you don't get lounge access. If your ticket is in the "saver" fare class, you get both lounge access and a chauffeur pickup and drop off (from Blacklane) on both sides of the journey. So for Emirates, I just buy the "special" fare and buy lounge access in Dubai separately. The pickup/drop off service is totally unnecessary.

United, Cathay Pacific and Thai Airways: These carriers have (thankfully) not unbundled their business class product as yet so you still get lounge access and advance seat selection.

 

[NoiseBoy]

Wow, thanks for the heads up on the unbundling of business class products on some airlines. I've already experienced that for a few premium economy tickets, but I would not have expected to encounter it with business class. Charging for advanced seat selection was the big change that I noticed. However, it turned out to not be a major issue for me because I paid close attention to when on-line check-in became available, and they let me choose my seats as a part of that process. There were plenty to choose from so my best guess is that I'm not the only customer who decided not to pay to choose their seats in advance.

 

[bonvoyage]

Wow, thanks for the heads up on the unbundling of business class products on some airlines. I've already experienced that for a few premium economy tickets, but I would not have expected to encounter it with business class. Charging for advanced seat selection was the big change that I noticed. However, it turned out to not be a major issue for me because I paid close attention to when on-line check-in became available, and they let me choose my seats as a part of that process. There were plenty to choose from so my best guess is that I'm not the only customer who decided not to pay to choose their seats in advance.

Now that most business class seats have aisle access, choice of seat doesn't matter all that much (except for being close to the galley or toilet). As a result, I don't usually pay for seat selection. Only a handful of airlines still have the older business class cabins where all seats don't have aisle access (typically in a 2-3-2 or 2-2-2 arrangement. Definitely check out the Aerolopa website or watch YouTube reviews before booking expensive tickets.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I’m curious how much a couple that spends $5–7k on plane tickets usually spends on accommodations, because I never fly for that kind of money.

not as much as you would think. We don't stay at high end hotels barely breaking into nicer places