CBS special on vets

[ChrisC]

Before I cut out, I wish to make something very clear; A very small percentage of our folks serving are actually involved in "combat". Special Operators experience action daily(nightly actually), the USMC/Army Infantry on a pretty much daily basis, though not always engaging actively. Other folks attached to the two above (medics, engineers, specialists of various sorts) also have exposure every now & then. But the vast majority are in extremely well protected bases with quite a few amenities from home available - it sucks, but it ain't like shaking brain matter & bone shards off your sleeves either...I'm pretty hard on my fellow vets - all of us do our j*b as trained, but even fewer go in harms way to an extent the horrific nature of man is revealed in a way that will stick with you..."Served in Iraq/Afg" means nothing to me other than thanks for doing your duty. The vast majority have never even seen an enemy combatant...and are perhaps only reminded of the war when an errant mortar round impacts in their perimeter.

regards,
1-0

Thanks for your post; I think it was Senator Webb who indicated that there is no other comparable human experience in human life to direct combat in war. There are also pockets of our diplomatic/foreign service who though not engaged in combat -- are facing some of the same risks as our servicemen in combat. Enemy snipers will take anyone out, including our foreign service officers working in the provinces and guarded, in cases, only by private contractors.

 

[Nords]

I recently saw him on his two week leave and he is so gaunt and distracted it is worrysome to me.

I've seen that in a half-dozen graduates of the Ranger School...

 

[One-Zero]

ChrisC - good point, apart from military , there are unprecedented numbers of civilians working in the 'combat' zones; the DipSvc/FSO folks you mention as well as those from various other USG components working as Govt civilians along with the contractors who provide support from building living pods, cooking, laundry service to private security as you mentioned. all this frees up Mil folks to do their job directed towards the mission at hand.

These civilians live in the same locales/conditions as the services. As with my previous post - only a handful are exposed to direct 'combat' and are usually working in conjunction with units that are predisposed to such risk. The Civilian agencies do address stress issues for those deploying...the contractors are on their own for the most part. I'm currently immersed with all three groups at this point (USG Civvie, Contractors, & Mil)

It should be noted that these conditions have ALWAYs existed for our Mil/CIV people overseas working in austere conditions and under ever present threat of actions against Americans... (ie, Beirut, Jakarta, Bogota, Damascus, etc...)

Though my goal is ER (as fast as possible!!!)...My current job involves passing knowledge onto those Civ/Mil going in harms way - prevention is the best medicine right?!
I also provide input to the appropriate agency/unit when they send someone over that I identify as having some potential problems down the road - that may cost their compadres or themselves. Suicide is taken VERY seriously...but like so many other problems people exhibit, I think those around the person in question may err towards underestimating the internal battle going on. One must never be embarrassed to ask and act.

Nords-just saw your post as I submitted this...You're indeed correct, most guys who've been deployed would consider it a break compared to the Ranger Suckfest as far as sleep and chow go!!

regards,
1-0

 

[Nords]

I also provide input to the appropriate agency/unit when they send someone over that I identify as having some potential problems down the road - that may cost their compadres or themselves. Suicide is taken VERY seriously...but like so many other problems people exhibit, I think those around the person in question may err towards underestimating the internal battle going on. One must never be embarrassed to ask and act.

At my final training command we had three instructors (one of whom had just transferred to sea duty) commit suicide over a three-year period. Two were submariners and a third was a Navy diver. All were fairly experienced-- a chief petty officer and two E-6s with each over a decade of service. All had been Sailors of the Year at various commands and were considered leaders (especially the CPO, who was legendary around the waterfront). No warning signs, no "cries for help", not even a clue (I had to conduct one of the investigations and assist investigators with the other two). All planned ahead. All used high-powered handguns against their temples. All made sure that there wouldn't be any physical mess to clean up. One of them killed his wife and shot her boyfriend into quadriplegia before killing himself.

In each case there was no indication that anything was wrong or even weighing on their minds. All three had completed physical exams, chain of command interviews, and psychiatric interviews before becoming instructors (in the case of the killer, less than a week before). There wasn't even a whisper of hope for anyone to have an opportunity to intervene.

During the subsequent investigations it became clear that for two of these shipmates there were "little" problems, that they nudged aside (or under the rug) during sea duty, that could no longer be ignored on shore duty. One problem source was an abusive CO and two were marital. All were well-known at the time and all three appeared to be successfully dealing with their issues. (The E-6s had even attended the CPO's funeral, seen the effect of his actions on his family, and knew why he had killed himself.) Yet despite their appearances of coping, a short time later each shipmate had been subject to a triggering event that caused them to commit to a course of action exactly as if their decisions had been taken from a Navy standard emergency-procedures handbook. They had thought things through and two of them even evaded security forces to carry out their actions. When the triggering events happened they didn't call anyone to discuss it. Just like their training they acted quickly, firmly, and with no hesitation.

I'm no longer a believer in suicide "prevention" training. I won't even listen if the trainer has never known someone who committed suicide. If a person wants help then they'll either give pretty straightforward clues or they'll just come right out and ask for it. If someone's already made their contingency plans, however, then we won't be able to do a thing unless Murphy's Law intervenes.

I have learned to trust my instincts, no matter how anal they may appear to be. If something doesn't seem right then by golly, it sure isn't.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

even if we can not teach others at least we can learn from them.

 

[dex]

is that just your lovely way of telling me to drop dead or a crack of recognition

Nothing very complicated - just that your logic is off.

 

[52andout]

Glad to see these recent posts. It is true that there are many military that never see a second of combat or are exposed to harrowing life threatening situations. I know that I am very biased due to working at the VA as well as seeing my friends son. He did the door to door thing in Baghdad when it was much less stable than now. About a week before they were due home several were killed and three more badly injured. For the second tour he is on a more remote base but still there was an attack and several of his buddies died. Getting in and out of the country can be harrowing as well.
He can get out next year, however he will need to be in the ready reserve and can go back.
The problem I see is there is little in the news, and frankly people don't seem to care. If we don't get ourselves out of this mess or get into Iran I would not be surprised to see a draft. If that happens, you can bet there will be a lot more interest from the public.

This thanksgiving we should all remember that we would not be able to enjoy the freedoms we have if it weren't for the brave men and women who served in the military as well as the countless others who support them in some way either through their work or personally.
Again, the news program may be sensationalized or the facts twisted but the fact remains we have many young men and women exposed to things that will change them forever.

 

[ChrisC]

52andout, that's a very perceptive post. Sensational journalism is sometimes needed to grab the public's attention; I find it incredible sometimes how we can become de-sensitized to really bad news. (The Great Tangshan Earthquake Disaster of 1976 comes to mind where up to 250,000 people died. ) Really bad news justs becomes a statistic.

Growing up in the Vietnam Era O0, one can become very cynical about our Government and our citizens. Once the draft ended during the Vietnam Era, I found the intensity of the war protests to drop significantly. I think Charlie Rangel has it right, if a draft were instituted the general public would become more connected to the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and the potential for even more frightening problems if Pakistan spins out of control. Clearly when you have "skin in the game," our political leaders and others become more connected to things.

So maybe the press doesn't get the story "right" with the precision we demand for statisticians, but it does us a service by keeping some generally accurate information out there.