CCRC vs Age in Place

[skyking1]

Mark us in the age in place group. We selected a community that seems to have a lot of activities for us. The house has the features we need and space for a caregiver or two.

 

[PaulR888]

OP here. After much reflection, we are currently kicking around the idea of doing both, CCRC and Age in Place: move to a 55+ community for about 10 years, then later to the CCRC (about age 77/78). The 55+ community will give us a more accessible environment (no stairs and wider door ways), let us get our feet wet being around lots of seniors, clubs, etc, and then we head over to the CCRC that we are already on the list for. DD, who lives in town, can handle the financials at some point (or vend it out...her choice).

Not sure yet if we would rent out our current house or sell it. Still lots to ponder.

Sounds like a good plan if if if God allows us to implement our plan. The reality is we can become incapacitated at any time or die at any time. I hate to sound morbid, but such is life. The best we can do is have a Plan B if unplanned things happen.

 

[camfused]

^^^ A lack of a plan or two or three has never been one of my problems!

 

[reneeh63]

You mean if, not when. But yes, I have two sons, one a professor at a private university, the other is in the front office of a major professional sports team. Both are very devout in their church and have POA for both medical and legal for both me and my wife, their mother. Besides, if I'm mentally diminished, I'm not going to care anymore anyway. With my current medical situation, it's unlikely that I will live that long for that to happen to me and as for my wife, she has plans of her own should she outlive me in place.

In general with discussions like this I read a lot of responses along the lines of 'when I get really bad off I won't care anymore'. But is that how you think when your dog gets bad off? That whatever pain or discomfort they're feeling doesn't matter?

Because people suffer, whether they are mentally with it or not and I sure don't want that to be me. So yes, I'm gonna try to plan so that doesn't happen rather than say 'my money can just run out at that point cuz I won't know the difference'.

 

[skipro33]

Having been my dad's caregiver during his final years of Alzheimer's, I'm well aware that he was not in any distress or discomfort from the condition.

 

[harllee]

Having been my dad's caregiver during his final years of Alzheimer's, I'm well aware that he was not in any distress or discomfort from the condition.

I don't think my 95 year old mom is in any pain from Alzheimers but her arthritis is pretty painful and she cannot walk and she is bed bound so she needs to be turned and have her diapers changed etc. Her life is miserable.

 

[Mark1]

Not sure yet if we would rent out our current house or sell it.

Do you care to share the logic of renting? Are you well over the $500,000 tax free CG limit on your house and want the tax free step up in basis someday? My cousin manages my Aunt's rental while she waits for this step up in basis (she's 98 years old right now). What a hassle.

 

[camfused]

The logic is to diversify our portfolio from mostly the market, so that we also have some real estate. Likely, the hassle of managing a rental will sway us away from this option.

 

[RunningBum]

The logic is to diversify our portfolio from mostly the market, so that we also have some real estate. Likely, the hassle of managing a rental will sway us away from this option.

Maybe diversify with a REIT. Having one rental house as diversification seems like having a lot of shares of a single low or mid cap stock. Something could happen to your neighborhood that could drag down your house value even if real estate in general is solid.

 

[harllee]

For all of you looking at portfolios to bring in money for long term care. Remember at that point someone else will probably be managing your money, most likely a family member as your POA. I am my mother's POA and she had investments scattered all over. I have spent 5 years and many hours finding her investments and consolidating them. What a burden on me. Fortunately she no long owned real estate, that would have mad my work load even worse.

 

[audreyh1]

For all of you looking at portfolios to bring in money for long term care. Remember at that point someone else will probably be managing your money, most likely a family member as your POA. I am my mother's POA and she had investments scattered all over. I have spent 5 years and many hours finding her investments and consolidating them. What a burden on me. Fortunately she no long owned real estate, that would have mad my work load even worse.

I was very fortunate that DF only had a local bank with me on the account, one brokerage account, and a couple of insurance policies with his pension company. All I had to do before he passed was update beneficiary info and set up TOD on his brokerage account. I was also managing his bills, his house and the rented farm land. Continued to use his tax person.

 

[Mark1]

Maybe diversify with a REIT. Having one rental house as diversification seems like having a lot of shares of a single low or mid cap stock. Something could happen to your neighborhood that could drag down your house value even if real estate in general is solid.

I knew a guy at w*rk that actually bought new brand new houses in the Houston area for rentals. He figured that with new houses the maintenance hassle would be less. My problem with this approach is what happens if a dirty bomb went off and all of these houses are now unlivable. Maybe the government would buy out folks on their personal residence, but I doubt they would help much on rentals(?).

P.S. Remember, you're not paranoid if people are out to get you.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Having been my dad's caregiver during his final years of Alzheimer's, I'm well aware that he was not in any distress or discomfort from the condition.

I’m glad that’s the way it turned out for your dad. My friend on the other hand once she had to go to a memory care facility because her husband died she was miserable. She was so restless. She was pacing day and night around the facility constantly. We tried many different drugs, trying to get a handle on it. Finally, when she got bad enough she quit doing that.

My mother-in-law had Alzheimer’s and she had quite a bit of money so she had excellent in-home care. My father-in-law was too old to take care of her, but he lived in the home so the caregivers were supervised. One day she was crying nonstop around the clock and they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with her. They finally transported her to a hospital and had her x-rayed, and some of her ribs had broke. There was no way she could communicate that to anybody.

She had had severe osteoporosis for many years. Her bones had just broken by themselves as nobody had abused her. The last time I saw her before she died it was absolutely horrible. She was such a kind and loving person, and no one deserves this for their ending.

 

[PaulR888]

The logic is to diversify our portfolio from mostly the market, so that we also have some real estate. Likely, the hassle of managing a rental will sway us away from this option.

Living in Calif, I am totally against owning residential real estate in retirement. It has been a royal PITA. When Covid came and our brilliant Governor enforced a non-eviction policy, we had renters not paying their rent and we were unable to do anything about it. When rent eventually started coming in, the cap rate was less than what my REITs were doing and what my overall portfolio was doing, not even reducing the rental income by insurance costs, property insurance, property management fees and property maintenance. We've sold all the inherited rentals. Eventually I plan to sell my home when I move into senior living. But the worst thing about owning property is the locked up equity that is not easy to tap if you need it.

 

[PaulR888]

I was very fortunate that DF only had a local bank with me on the account, one brokerage account, and a couple of insurance policies with his pension company. All I had to do before he passed was update beneficiary info and set up TOD on his brokerage account. I was also managing his bills, his house and the rented farm land. Continued to use his tax person.

After TOD on brokerage account was set up, what if he had extended life and extended expenses. Would you be able to tap his brokerage account to pay his bill?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I knew a guy at w*rk that actually bought new brand new houses in the Houston area for rentals. He figured that with new houses the maintenance hassle would be less. My problem with this approach is what happens if a dirty bomb went off and all of these houses are now unlivable.

How many times have you encountered this situation in your lifetime?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Living in Calif, I am totally against owning residential real estate in retirement. It has been a royal PITA. When Covid came and our brilliant Governor enforced a non-eviction policy, we had renters not paying their rent and we were unable to do anything about it. When rent eventually started coming in, the cap rate was less than what my REITs were doing and what my overall portfolio was doing, not even reducing the rental income by insurance costs, property insurance, property management fees and property maintenance. We've sold all the inherited rentals. Eventually I plan to sell my home when I move into senior living. But the worst thing about owning property is the locked up equity that is not easy to tap if you need it.

I was (and still am) a landlord in CA during that time. 3 tenants, a small-timer.

2 tenants behaved as normal.

1 mentioned something about Covid. I said you have to pay your rent or I'll get rid of you one way or another.

She paid then, and continues to this day. Been there around 24 years.

 

[audreyh1]

After TOD on brokerage account was set up, what if he had extended life and extended expenses. Would you be able to tap his brokerage account to pay his bill?

Yes of course. TOD means transfer on death. It in no way limits access while living. He also had a good pension plus SS that easily covered his expenses until the last nine months.

 

[FIREd]

I’m an introvert and I fiercely enjoy my freedom so I’m shooting for aging in place.

 

[Amethyst]

Having been my dad's caregiver during his final years of Alzheimer's, I'm well aware that he was not in any distress or discomfort from the condition.

I guess everyone differs when it comes to losing your mind. My late husband had an unspecified dementia. As his memory worsened and his high intellect kept dropping, he was well aware, openly distressed , ashamed, and also incredibly bored because he couldn't follow a movie, book, or even a newspaper article. He certainly couldn't carry on a conversation and would have been a disaster in a grim gray "memory" facility where someone has to be paid to help you find the dining room (which is what I found when looking locally).

The only person he liked and trusted was me. I kept him as busy as I could with trips and going to stores and to the gym, but he would get bored and wander off when I wasn't watching. We were extremely lucky that he had no physical ailments until very near the end of his life, but he suffered constantly.

 

[PaulR888]

Yes of course. TOD means transfer on death. It in no way limits access while living. He also had a good pension plus SS that easily covered his expenses until the last nine months.

As TOD means the brokerage account was not in a living trust, I thought TOD limits access by others and a brokerage firm would not allow you to access the account until the account holder dies. I guess I was wrong. I still am confused under what authority does another party get access to a TOD account when account holder is still alive.

 

[audreyh1]

As TOD means the brokerage account was not in a living trust, I thought TOD limits access by others and a brokerage firm would not allow you to access the account until the account holder dies. I guess I was wrong. I still am confused under what authority does another party get access to a TOD account when account holder is still alive.

I had a durable POA for DF which was necessary in general to handle his financial affairs while he was alive. The POA had already been accepted and registered with the brokerage company. I worked with DF to get the TOD paperwork done so at that point I was not using POA, but I did use it to direct some of his investments later,

 

[RetiredHappy]

1 mentioned something about Covid. I said you have to pay your rent or I'll get rid of you one way or another.

She paid then, and continues to this day. Been there around 24 years.

Do you have a friend who is called Guido or Luigi?

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Do you have a friend who is called Guido or Luigi?

Not Italian. You just have to speak in a way that tenants understand.

No payment = your leaving

 

[RetiredHappy]

Not Italian. You just have to speak in a way that tenants understand.

No payment = your leaving

Covid Deadbeats = No payment, not leaving.