CEF Holdings --- June 2026

[BuckeyesRC]

Yep. The truth is you start each day with what you have. That’s your worth. Like it or not. Mental accounting is just that. Math salad.

It's not so much about mental accounting and word salad as people talking past each other about the distinction of an investment's worth (price) versus its value. The number that indicates the market value balance is indeed the worth of your assets. This is not the same as the value of your investments, since the market price at any given time is not the totality of an asset's earning power. Holding an asset in your portfolio that is red does not necessarily provide any information about its value. Largely, I am investing in assets I believe have value based on cash flow and/or contractual obligations to pay debt, and which in return pass along income to me. I don't care about their "worth," on any given day, because it makes no difference to me, and as long as the value to me is retained, the "worth" can be ignored.

Marks wouldn't fully like my investment style, I assure you, but his memos are necessary reading for any diy investor: The Calculus of Value

 

[COcheesehead]

It's not so much about mental accounting and word salad as people talking past each other about the distinction of an investment's worth versus its value. The number that indicates the market value balance is indeed the worth of your assets. This is not the same as the value of your investments, since the market price at any given time is not the totality of an asset's earning power. Holding an asset in your portfolio that is red does not necessarily provide any information about its value. Largely, I am investing in assets I believe have value based on cash flow and/or contractual obligations to pay debt, and which in return pass along income to me. I don't care about their "worth," on any given day, because it makes no difference to me, and as long as the value to me is retained, the "worth" can be ignored.

Marks wouldn't fully like my investment style, I assure you, but his memos are necessary reading for any diy investor: The Calculus of Value

Cashflow from an investment isn’t guaranteed. Your portfolio is what it is. Some on here have tried to put a value on things like social security too with mixed receptions from members.
I think @dickoncapecod has weighed in on this issue in the past. I like his take.

 

[COcheesehead]

Good choice. I dropped small trial holdings of CTA and DBMF but decided to use a combination of QNZNX and QRPNX to fill this role in my portfolio.

They have even higher returns over three years.

You have to like today’s results in these AQR’s. OK I said I wouldn’t derail the thread, but I just saw today’s results

 

[BuckeyesRC]

Cashflow from an investment isn’t guaranteed. Your portfolio is what it is. Some on here have tried to put a value on things like social security too with mixed receptions from members.

The purchasing power of your cash isn't guaranteed either. That's beside the point of whether or not it has value to you.

 

[PaulR888]

I agree, though, an unrealized gain is not money you have made. It can disappear at any time. I would only consider the money "made" is the actual realized cash. Steve Selengut's philosophy of "working capital" in his book the Brainwashing of the American Investor has changed my thinking in this regard. As an income investor, market value is not really worth tracking; rather, the metrics that matter are Cost Basis and Cash (Working Capital), Base Income (distributions and realized profits), and Projected Income. Naturally, I take a lot of profits and redeploy the cash into other income funds, except for those I purposely hold for the sake of ROC benefits.

I agree up to a point. My bond CEFs, equity CEF, REITs and BDCs are about 30% of my PV. I only track their MV to my target %s for them so I know when to rebalance. But I fully understand and appreciate someone like Dick, who I know has a much, much higher % of PV in income generators, and his desire to keep close watch on them and is willing to trade in and out in attempt to avoid a devastating knockout punch. He is more exposed to the whims of other retail investors in the bond CEFs.

 

[COcheesehead]

The purchasing power of your cash isn't guaranteed either. That's beside the point of whether or not it has value to you.

Not sure what that has to do with having positions with losses in your portfolio

 

[FlyingCircus]

Not sure what that has to do with having positions with losses in your portfolio

I'd suggest this topic be moved to a separate debate thread.

 

[BuckeyesRC]

Not sure what that has to do with having positions with losses in your portfolio

An asset may have value beyond whatever its present price is whether or not its future is guaranteed. Likewise, an asset may have significant value even while being held at a loss if the investor believes the price doesn't reflect the asset's value. Someone can rightly say PDI has value, even held at a price loss, since the investor believes its future cash flow is not correctly reflected by present price. Thus that investor can rightly say they haven't really lost anything, since they are thinking in terms of value and not price.

And ironically, I suppose, there are those who share their screen shots in which they are holding on to funds that have declined tens of thousands of dollars in market price. Those investors must have thought there was value at a premium price, unless they bought irrationally.

 

[stefansm]

I use an AQR fund for my managed futures holding. QMHNX

Chart vs CTA

View attachment 63999

In my case, I am looking for proven historical convexity in choosing an asset class to pair with bondish CEFs in a portfolio construction. It is about mixing and matching asset classes which perform well when risk-ons perform badly and which can show a convex smile in a scattered plot. And which have at least 20 years of returns so you can backtest your combined portfolio across bear markets, recessions, stagflation and all major and minor crisis with historical data.
Else, I have a large NVDA allocation in my portfolio and could have shown it vs whatever alternative . But that was not the point, the point is portfolio engineering and backtest to prove it, to yourself, based on dependable behavior based on market environment => i.e asset class combo vs some investments which happen to do well now.. .
Hope I was able to convey my point ...

 

[COcheesehead]

In my case, I am looking for proven historical convexity in choosing an asset class to pair with bondish CEFs in a portfolio construction. It is about mixing and matching asset classes which perform well when risk-ons perform badly and which can show a convex smile in a scattered plot. And which have at least 20 years of returns so you can backtest your combined portfolio across bear markets, recessions, stagflation and all major and minor crisis with historical data.
Else, I have a large NVDA allocation in my portfolio and could have shown it vs whatever alternative . But that was not the point, the point is portfolio engineering and backtest to prove it, to yourself, based on dependable behavior based on market environment => i.e asset class combo vs some investments which happen to do well now.. .
Hope I was able to convey my point ...

QMHNX stills comes out on top as far back as the data allows and well outpaces CTA in the last few years.

 

[stefansm]

QMHNX stills comes out on top as far back as the data allows and well outpaces CTA in the last few years.

View attachment 64000

Ok. But that was not my point ...

 

[COcheesehead]

I won’t post anymore non CEFs comments. We should all get back on track.

 

[PaulR888]

In my case, I am looking for proven historical convexity in choosing an asset class to pair with bondish CEFs in a portfolio construction. It is about mixing and matching asset classes which perform well when risk-ons perform badly and which can show a convex smile in a scattered plot. And which have at least 20 years of returns so you can backtest your combined portfolio across bear markets, recessions, stagflation and all major and minor crisis with historical data.
Else, I have a large NVDA allocation in my portfolio and could have shown it vs whatever alternative . But that was not the point, the point is portfolio engineering and backtest to prove it, to yourself, based on dependable behavior based on market environment => i.e asset class combo vs some investments which happen to do well now.. .
Hope I was able to convey my point ...

I love this explanation stefan and I didn't have to see Sharpe, Sortino or SD. Thank you!

 

[Bill E]

I won’t post anymore non CEFs comments. We should all get back on track.

Your comments are CEF related as are stefan's. As long as we are talking about CEF related portfolio construction I hope you both will continue!

Bill

 

[zaharaone]

I read this all the time and it is so false... because the opposite is you have not made money unless you sell it... but everybody talks about how much they have 'made' when their stocks go up..

I have a preferred stock that stopped paying dividends... down to almost zero... I have LOST money and I have not sold it... it is just wrong to think I have what I put into buying it..

I think you are confusing two different types of investing, which I hear a lot on this forum. Income investing has an unlimited timeline: success is judged by the income produced over time. Total return investing has an instantaneous timeline: success is judged by the value of your portfolio today. The two are completely different. As I mentioned above, as long as there are no dividend cuts, then an income investor does not care what the size of his portfolio is, anymore than a salaried worker cares about the value of his company -- as long as it continues to pay his salary. If you do not need to sell your investments at any foreseeable point in the future, then you may wish to focus on the "salary" and not have to spend your time thinking about your investments. If you like investing and the challenge of trading and are any good at it, you may adopt the total return approach. But in any case -- keep them separate.

 

[GaltintheGulch]

GOF, PDI, JFR. About equal in all three. Those three will throw off just a bit over $100,000/ year.
YYY which is a fund of CEFs. Small position.
CEFs are less than 7% of my portfolio

impressive

 

[eniacpalm]

ADX - 10.2%
GAM - 3.7%
UTF - 1.1%
UTG - < 1%

 

[GaltintheGulch]

June already! Here we go again....

PDI 33% PAXS 13% PTY 12% WDI 12% JFR 10% GOF 8% PHK 8% RCS 4% CASH 0%

Week ended 5/29 will appear here tomorrow,

Regards, Dick

PDI 9.1, GOF 7.0, PHK 6.7, PFN 5.4, PAXS 2.8, WDI 2.3, DX 1.3, CASH 3.5

June already! Here we go again....

PDI 33% PAXS 13% PTY 12% WDI 12% JFR 10% GOF 8% PHK 8% RCS 4% CASH 0%

Week ended 5/29 will appear here tomorrow,

Regards, Dick

 

[dickoncapecod]

An asset may have value beyond whatever its present price is whether or not its future is guaranteed. Likewise, an asset may have significant value even while being held at a loss if the investor believes the price doesn't reflect the asset's value. Someone can rightly say PDI has value, even held at a price loss, since the investor believes its future cash flow is not correctly reflected by present price. Thus that investor can rightly say they haven't really lost anything, since they are thinking in terms of value and not price.

And ironically, I suppose, there are those who share their screen shots in which they are holding on to funds that have declined tens of thousands of dollars in market price. Those investors must have thought there was value at a premium price, unless they bought irrationally.

Gotta be careful with that "value vs price" stuff. You said the magic words, that an investor can ASSESS/BELIEVE the future cash flows of an income asset SHOULD drive a higher market price. But particularly in the equity world --- and less so, but still in CEFs --- the "value vs price" stuff CAN quickly devolve into a destructive-defensive hideout for folks who know they should have exited a position but didn't.
Regards, Dick

 

[PaulR888]

Gotta be careful with that "value vs price" stuff. You said the magic words, that an investor can ASSESS/BELIEVE the future cash flows of an income asset SHOULD drive a higher market price. But particularly in the equity world --- and less so, but still in CEFs --- the "value vs price" stuff CAN quickly devolve into a destructive-defensive hideout for folks who know they should have exited a position but didn't.
Regards, Dick

The PMs I see on CNBC often speak of selling (part of) a holding to right-size it in their portfolio. They are forcing themselves to not fall in love with the TR and book a profit because, contrary to other opinion here, you have not made money (a profit) unless you sell it. Case in point, a friend (or he used to be) held a stock that ran up to $125 and I texted him it may be a good time to peel off some profits. He texted me back with "maybe". Well he didn't. Now the stock is $21.

 

[DrVenture]

I ask the group, is this a good time to add to GOF and WDI?

What do the tea leaves say?

 

[dickoncapecod]

I ask the group, is this a good time to add to GOF and WDI?

What do the tea leaves say?

I added a bit of WDI today, but I'm not buying it to sell it higher. An overearned 13.1% distribution yield, 5% discount, and on a well-developed weekly MACD buy signal --- no brainer for MY purposes.
Regards, Dick

 

[PaulR888]

I ask the group, is this a good time to add to GOF and WDI?

What do the tea leaves say?

My simplistic read, it's not a bad time to buy GOF. Small premium is about 1/2 of 6 month ave. premium. Z stat -1.06 is ok. But sometimes, for unknown reasons, there is a sell-off of more than 5%, that lasts for a few days. You might want to set up with your brokerage to get a notification when such sell-off occurs so you can buy more. That may make up for any bad timing buys.

 

[BuckeyesRC]

Gotta be careful with that "value vs price" stuff. You said the magic words, that an investor can ASSESS/BELIEVE the future cash flows of an income asset SHOULD drive a higher market price. But particularly in the equity world --- and less so, but still in CEFs --- the "value vs price" stuff CAN quickly devolve into a destructive-defensive hideout for folks who know they should have exited a position but didn't.
Regards, Dick

No problem with any of this! It can also be true, however, that if I believe an asset has value at X price, I can still hold it believing that it has value at X-1 price (or whatever subtracted factor). Valuing an asset is always subjective, and the investor has to learn to be honest with himself and know his ego and emotions. But I also get very annoyed at a certain kind of retail investor who arrogantly tries to dismiss income investing by adamantly asserting that the only value an asset has is in its present market price.

 

[BuckeyesRC]

I ask the group, is this a good time to add to GOF and WDI?

What do the tea leaves say?

Are you buying for the income? Yes. For capital preservation? Probably as decent time as any. For capital appreciation? Not really.