CEF Holdings ---- May 2025

[tutan]

FWIW I just ran the 5y total return numbers on PDI. Starting from May '20 the post-lockdown rally through the bear of 22-23 to now. Doing nothing other than reinvesting the standard dividend (excluding the special .87 in early 23 and excluding the Fido 5% DRIP discount), total return is right around 80%.

Portfolio Visualizer shows that starting with $10k invested in PDI on May 1, 2020, with dividends reinvested, you end up with $15,067 by April 30, 2025. So it seems that total return is about 50%.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Portfolio Visualizer shows that starting with $10k invested in PDI on May 1, 2020, with dividends reinvested, you end up with $15,067 by April 30, 2025. So it seems that total return is about 50%.

Love Portviz, can't speak to their method. Revalidating my spreadsheet calc, I just took the monthly div of .2205 and bought new shares at the then price to add to the share balance, repeated up through all the months.

 

[mf15]

Is PDI a buy at around 18.30,given bond market turmoil and possible attack on Iran. For now in IRA looking for income not trading, Of course preservation of principal is most important. Volume, does not seem to indicate panic selling. Thanks
oldmike

 

[surprising]

Love Portviz, can't speak to their method. Revalidating my spreadsheet calc, I just took the monthly div of .2205 and bought new shares at the then price to add to the share balance, repeated up through all the months.

For those of us living on the distributions and not reinvesting, the total return is a bit different. What we see is a ~20% share price drop since May 1. Or back up a few months before the covid selloff, and we're at ~45% loss, so our capital is eroding over time. If you bought and held on May 1, 2020 at $24, you would've received $13.25 in distributions but with a share price decline of $5.67. So 'total return' would be 32%? If you bought and held on Jan 1, 2020 at $33, you would've received $14.33 in distributions but with a share price decline of $14.66, so total return is 0%.

 

[COcheesehead]

Is PDI a buy at around 18.30,given bond market turmoil and possible attack on Iran. For now in IRA looking for income not trading, Of course preservation of principal is most important. Volume, does not seem to indicate panic selling. Thanks
oldmike

I wouldn’t be buying CEFs or any bond fund or bond ETF if preservation of capital is your number one goal. Buy something with a par value, something that short of default returns your original investment. I personally buy individual bonds, laddered, to form that income foundation. Everything else, all my CEFs, is just income gravy on top.

 

[COcheesehead]

If anyone had a positive return in a bond product in the worst rate hiking environment ever, you should consider yourself fortunate. We need to stop comparing income producing investments with growth investments. I own both and my expectations of the two are vastly different. Kind of like buying a car and hope it can fly. It’s not made to do that.

 

[dickoncapecod]

If anyone had a positive return in a bond product in the worst rate hiking environment ever, you should consider yourself fortunate. We need to stop comparing income producing investments with growth investments. I own both and my expectations of the two are vastly different. Kind of like buying a car and hope it can fly. It’s not made to do that.

Indeed. Particularly on other sites, (sadly) authors who should know better and peanut gallery retail commenters often suggest that S&P is an appropriate benchmark for income CEFs.
Regards, Dick

 

[drs]

I continued to lighten up this morning....some of each holding. Cash up to 52%. There's really no point in just doing a little. I plan to buy it all back...the only question is when.
Regards, Dick

gosh, tell me you're bearish without telling me you're bearish.

 

[dickoncapecod]

gosh, tell me you're bearish without telling me you're bearish.

Naw.....I just think there might be an opportunity to replace standard holdings cheaper. Before I became conservative, if bearish I would have run cash up to 75-85%.
Regards, Dick

 

[drs]

Always a contrarian in the crowd...me too. Added to NMCO big today as my Schwab bond matured. No tax >7% yield vs EY 5.85% on Schwab bond, taxable. Nice enhancement to cash flow.

Almost pulled the trigger on adding to my muni CEF's the other day but in general NAV wise they have gone nowhere (flat to down) for the last year and I would like a bit more info on the long end of the curve's activity before adding to NMCO, VMO, PML. Yields on the former two are nuts - above 8%. I'll take the tax free income until November and if I need to sell for the tax loss.

 

[dickoncapecod]

Almost pulled the trigger on adding to my muni CEF's the other day but in general NAV wise they have gone nowhere (flat to down) for the last year and I would like a bit more info on the long end of the curve's activity before adding to NMCO, VMO, PML. Yields on the former two are nuts - above 8%. I'll take the tax free income until November and if I need to sell for the tax loss.

Hi. It may make no difference to you, but a large (30-40%) portion of the NMCO distribution/yield is PURPOSEFUL ROC Nuveen started almost a year ago to heighten interest in a number of their CEFs. Their marketing guys say this "helps" investors "access" a portion of their capital.... D

 

[dickoncapecod]

Question du jour: will the equity market swoon take income CEFs down like last time? And aside: locked out of trading over a 3-day weekend in which literally ANYTHING might be said in DC, how much risk will folks want by end of today?
Regards, Dick

 

[COcheesehead]

Here’s the way I look at it. Come the first of June right now I have about $41,000 in pending interest and dividends. Come the first of July, August, September…I’ll have similar. I may add in between, I may sell in between, but I bought all my CEFs for income and that’s what I get. You get what you pay for and pay for what you get. LOL. Volatility can play in your favor if reinvesting dividends which is where I am at.

 

[Rhythm Method]

I tend to agree with Mr. Cheese. I applaud those getting in and back out at the best time. For me I'm ok to keep my CEF section rather small and take the income and buy more if prices drop. I'd be more likely to sell at a higher profit. This is at once a stressful situation and an opportunity - for a yet unknown time. Stay safe. RM

 

[dickoncapecod]

I tend to agree with Mr. Cheese. I applaud those getting in and back out at the best time. For me I'm ok to keep my CEF section rather small and take the income and buy more if prices drop. I'd be more likely to sell at a higher profit. This is at once a stressful situation and an opportunity - for a yet unknown time. Stay safe. RM

Yes....but I'll never have $41k per month in portfolio income unless I opportunistically increase mine!
Regards, Dick

 

[dickoncapecod]

Held cash at same 52% level, but swapped some PHK and PFN for new position in PAXS. Picked up very small extra yield but average 5 discount points. The daily charts on all this stuff continue to look awful. A retest of (at least near) the panic lows seems to becon. As Cheese and RM imply, a lot of this makes no sense from a rate-analytical view, but PEOPLE make market prices and fear is powerful.
Regards, Dick

 

[COcheesehead]

Held cash at same 52% level, but swapped some PHK and PFN for new position in PAXS. Picked up very small extra yield but average 5 discount points. The daily charts on all this stuff continue to look awful. A retest of (at least near) the panic lows seems to becon. As Cheese and RM imply, a lot of this makes no sense from a rate-analytical view, but PEOPLE make market prices and fear is powerful.
Regards, Dick

That is one of the problems with CEFs. A lot are held retail and retail is hot money.

 

[Flieger]

Posted earlier on another forum:



Sold a chunk of my PDI pimco Dynamic Income CEF, at opening today. WHY? DickonCapecod, whom I follow, reported selling some CEF holdings to 21% of portfolio two days ago; increasing to 38% cash in portfolio yesterday. He considers risk/reward not good from here, as it would take a lot to get PDI to go higher from here given recent NAV declines (and relatively high premium) ; and not much to have PDI price to go down. I don't trade my CEFs much. This is not a high conviction sell. The chart going forward will dictate any further selling or buying back in.

R48

I would not want anyone trading/making decisions on anything I say or do.

Flieger

 

[dickoncapecod]

That is one of the problems with CEFs. A lot are held retail and retail is hot money.

Well, it also provides opportunities for us. D

 

[Pete3]

PIMCO UNII Report for April.

Columns in Orange added by me for reference.

 

[dennis5502]

Very high volume in PAXS today driving price down and yield to 12.2%

 

[Pete3]

Very high volume in PAXS today driving price down and yield to 12.2%

Yea I was looking to see if there were any news stories or articles posted on SA about PAXS and didn't find anything.

Looking at the tape there was a 54k block sold first thing in the morning (9:30:24) that appeared to drive the price down from the open but other than that I didn't see any unusual selling volume. If it were only that one seller I would have expected the price to meander its way back up during the day which hasn't happened.

 

[marget]

I would not want anyone trading/making decisions on anything I say or do.

Flieger

@Flieger @retired at 48


I'm 100% sure R48 was -already- considering doing this. He, from my observation, always invests from a very solid set of fundamentals reaching back to when he was 48 years old. He knows investing like the back of his hand.

edit: none of us in the CEF thread would ever want anyone to follow our way of investing. But, it's always helpful to think about the stuff other folks do. For me anyway, it helps my thinking processes in investing.

edit again: If R48 ever posts a link to all the stuff he's written over the 30+ years-----you would literally faint

 

[dickoncapecod]

Yea I was looking to see if there were any news stories or articles posted on SA about PAXS and didn't find anything.

Looking at the tape there was a 54k block sold first thing in the morning (9:30:24) that appeared to drive the price down from the open but other than that I didn't see any unusual selling volume. If it were only that one seller I would have expected the price to meander its way back up during the day which hasn't happened.

The discussion of PAXS dovetails nicely into a comment about how dreadfully incomplete and potentially misleading the PIMCO monthly reports can be. Consider: In April, PAXS earned (what can be classified as) NII 2c and it paid a distribution of 15c. BUT BUT BUT UNII only fell 1c!!!!! Clearly, there is much more going on inside the portfolio than is revealed EVER in monthly reports.
Regards, Dick

 

[Rhythm Method]

That is one of the problems with CEFs. A lot are held retail and retail is hot money.

Yes - this is the problem, and also the opportunity for those skilled in manipulation to take advantage of it. I just saw a music masterclass where the presenter said the pros can cover a mistake more elegantly than an amateur can give a perfect (for them) performance. So it is with CEFs, I think. By the way, similar to Maestro Cod, I added to PAXS in my ROTH.