College or car?

[HarveyS]

It it were to be me, no to most liberal arts college, but yes to STEM degree at Ivy League, MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd or Stanford.

That's great. But you need to recognize that 88-95 out of 100 applicants to these schools do not get accepted. And, the student needs to have a desire to study a STEM field.

 

[Semi-Retyrd]

Most marquee Universities have "blind admission" policies meaning they do not consider an applicants financial situation in deciding whether to offer admission. Only academic and test performance, and accomplishments outside of school are considered. Once admission is offered and accepted, then they work with each incoming student to find an acceptable financial solution. While only top performers are accepted - typically only a few % of applicants, this seems fair.

If the daughter could not get accepted at the leading state university, then she was not a top student. So leading universities anywhere would not accept her. She should accept the fact that unless she can demonstrate top performance, then she is not worth $92K investment.

I would suggest her parents tell her she has to up her game in life or be left with the average also rans. So she should start at a local community college and study like h##l, get a 3+ average and then reapply at the leading state University. Show her the life equation: Achievement = Ability X Effort

 

[L-5Player]

One thing I've learned from participating on finance forums for many years is that people are extremely biased by their own education experiences. Often this comes with a closed mind.

I went to a small liberal arts college that was considered a "safety school" for ivy league wannabes. I had a successful 32 year career in software engineering. Relationships developed at school helped me get my foot in the door. The student body was, for the most part, extremely intelligent and many are quite accomplished some 40 years later.

Liberal arts simply means the curriculum is diverse and flexible in the way that disciplines can be integrated with each other. It doesn't mean they only offer degrees in frivolous subjects. It's ignorance (reverse snobbery?) if you believe that.

My kids go/went to large state universities out-of-state. $45k COA for one who graduated in 3 years, $60k-something reduced to $45k with a merit scholarship for the other. Both are pursuing health science degrees. You can pursue questionably lucrative degrees at these schools as well. All of the schools offer a range of choices, good, bad and everything in between.

As for a $90k bachelors degree, if our kids had chosen that path, it would have depleted the 529s and meant that all graduate level costs would be on them. They decided after long discussions with us that they'd rather have some money left over and not blow it all on undergrad.

 

[athena53]

And a pointer for college graduates. Don't expect the world to fall at your feet when you graduate. I am not discounting a college education. (wish I had one) I only want to warn graduates that a degree alone may not give you what you were sold when you went to college.

Sadly, I think this happens more often with the first-generation college students. It used to be that ANY degree got you in the door. I've often used the example of my late friend who graduated from the U. of Toronto in the mid-1970s with a degree in English Literature. One of the big banks in NYC took him into their Commercial Lending Department and he had a good and lucrative career. They're probably looking for MBAs in Finance from Wharton now.

The other side of the coin: employers are requiring a college degree for positions that really don't require one- because they can.

My oldest grandchild is almost 12. I'm hoping I'll be around when it's time for college but who knows? My guess is that my son and DIL will ask her what she plans to study and how to make a living at it. Underwater Archaeology and Musical Theater will not be options unless its a double major combined with something marketable. I know actuaries with double degrees in math and...theology, classics, music, linguistics (she specialized in the naive language in Greenland), etc.

 

[L-5Player]

Underwater Archaeology and Musical Theater will not be options unless its a double major combined with something marketable. I know actuaries with double degrees in math and...theology, classics, music, linguistics (she specialized in the native language in Greenland), etc.

My degree was in computer science and music. I made enough money with computers that I could afford to buy a lot of guitars.

One of my DDs applied to college based on an intended Theater major. She ended up with a degree in Neuropsychology. So... ya just never know!

 

[Golden sunsets]

I'm struggling with the fact that any applicant would be accepted by a small liberal arts college that charges $92K/yr, when that same student could not get accepted by their State flafship university. This just does not compute for me.

 

[COcheesehead]

My college degree got me an entry ticket to a conversation with a corporate recruiter that lead to my first job. The connections I made in school would ultimately result in helping me start my own business 12 years after graduating. The degree was really just a single step on a very long ladder.
My wife and I are big donors now to scholarships. We want to give people the chance at that first step.
Can you make it without a degree? Of course, but as I often say to people who ask, you better have a skill or you will be paid as a commodity and that’s a race to the bottom. My sister being a prime example. She was always an officer worker. Never gained any skills. When she retired, she was making $14/hour.

 

[COcheesehead]

I'm struggling with the fact that any applicant would be accepted by a small liberal arts college that charges $92K/yr, when that same student could not get accepted by their State flafship university. This just does not compute for me.

Follow the money.

 

[Surewhitey]

While we sent DD to higher education, she chose to only go with an Associates degree from a community college. She's now working in wealth management and w*rking 3 days / wk, raising 2 kids. Hubby is resentful for parents not sending him to college, but doing fine financially.

We're contributing to the kiddos' 429, but they're hopefully going to be responsible on where & how much they blow on them.

We're both HS grads only & have done just fine in life. Maybe a far-fetched idea today? Who knows?

 

[RetiredHappy]

That's great. But you need to recognize that 88-95 out of 100 applicants to these schools do not get accepted. And, the student needs to have a desire to study a STEM field.

Sure....so I would not pay $92K a year for a liberal arts degree. As someone pointed out if the daughter's grades are not good enough to get accepted into a state university, it will likely also mean that the $92K a year at the liberal arts college is just a waste of money.

 

[COcheesehead]

This thread reminds me of the time a friend was all excited because the recruiter for a local private art school “loved” her daughter’s portfolio and couldn’t wait to get her enrolled. Cha ching $$$!

 

[FD1000]

You don’t have to go to college, but you do need to pursue work that pays well and has long-term demand.
I know plenty of people who have built solid careers in trades like HVAC, plumbing, and auto mechanics.

Example 1: A friend of my son loves fixing cars. I told him that if he’s serious about it, he should complete the necessary certifications and specialize in working on Mercedes-Benz vehicles. According to Consumer Reports, these cars tend to be more complex and expensive to repair, and they don't have high reliability like Toyota. As a result, a mechanic who specializes in Mercedes earns significantly more than one who mainly works on brands like Ford.

Example 2: Many years ago, I had a long conversation with a young woman who didn’t want to attend college. I suggested she consider a 1–2 year healthcare training program. Those programs can lead to stable, well-paying jobs that are always in demand.

In the end, the principle is simple: focus on opportunities that lead to strong, reliable income. Or, as the line from Jerry Maguire famously puts it, “Show me the money.”

 

[Golden sunsets]

Follow the money.

Yes, but I guess I left unsaid, ....how good could this private school be ( not 92K worth of good!) if the student couldn't get into their state's flagship Conclusion :said 92K school is not worth the money.

 

[disneysteve]

Sure....so I would not pay $92K a year for a liberal arts degree.

My "liberal arts degree" was a BS in Biology/Pre-Med.

Liberal arts isn't a degree. It's a type of school. Harvard is a liberal arts school. Yale is a liberal arts school. In fact, ALL 8 Ivy League colleges are liberal arts schools.

If people want to debate the value of specific fields of study, fine, but blanket statements suggesting liberal arts schools are worthless make no sense at all.

 

[GrayHare]

Test scores of students entering many large, public colleges seem higher than they were decades ago. For example, average SAT scores per prepscholar.com are Penn State 1330, U Florida 1400, U Michigan 1460, U Maryland 1470. Wow.

 

[FD1000]

My "liberal arts degree" was a BS in Biology/Pre-Med.

Liberal arts isn't a degree. It's a type of school. Harvard is a liberal arts school. Yale is a liberal arts school. In fact, ALL 8 Ivy League colleges are liberal arts schools.

If people want to debate the value of specific fields of study, fine, but blanket statements suggesting liberal arts schools are worthless make no sense at all.

You know what we’re talking about.

As of early 2026, about 42% of recent college graduates are underemployed. The highest underemployment rates are in fields such as criminal justice (~67%), performing arts (~64%), fine arts (~59%), and liberal arts (~55%).

So the real question is this:
What percentage of students graduating from a typical liberal arts university end up in fields with a lower probability of employment compared with those graduating from technology-focused universities?
That difference matters, because the field of study often has a major impact on job prospects and earnings potential.
Another interesting point: none of the schools in the Ivy League are purely technology-focused institutions like Massachusetts Institute of Technology or California Institute of Technology.
When you look at the structure of higher education in the U.S., it raises a reasonable question about incentives and priorities in the system.

 

[Lorenzo]

Had a friend who decided that since he'd attended an Ivy, employers would fall over themselves to hire him. They didn't. He had developed no marketable skill. He ended up on the streets, homeless. Very sad to witness.

Absolutely true. But the key to success that he lacked was not marketable skill. Rather, it was having "connections."

I'm being facetious.

 

[RetiredHappy]

My "liberal arts degree" was a BS in Biology/Pre-Med.

Liberal arts isn't a degree. It's a type of school. Harvard is a liberal arts school. Yale is a liberal arts school. In fact, ALL 8 Ivy League colleges are liberal arts schools.

If people want to debate the value of specific fields of study, fine, but blanket statements suggesting liberal arts schools are worthless make no sense at all.

Pre-med in whichever college is fine, because it is a means to an end. The issue is that people get an English or History major and then try to get a good paying job with the Bachelor degree.

 

[youbet]

Another interesting point: none of the schools in the Ivy League are purely technology-focused institutions like Massachusetts Institute of Technology........

But MIT is not "purely technology-focused." You know this, yet chose to say something else. Why?

 

[ncbill]

Tuition alone was ~$60k/year for my youngest at an out-of-state private school.

But a ROTC scholarship covered that.

I gave the kid the annual gift limit each year to cover room & board.

Had they not gotten that scholarship they would have joined the National Guard in a nearby state.

Which would have covered tuition at that state's flagship public school.

 

[disneysteve]

Pre-med in whichever college is fine, because it is a means to an end. The issue is that people get an English or History major and then try to get a good paying job with the Bachelor degree.

And many of those people become teachers, which I certainly think is a worth and much-needed field. Others go into fields not directly tied to their major. My daughter is a perfect example. She graduated with an English degree. That led her into a job as the funding manager for a solar and roofing company. Did she need an English degree for that? Not specifically, but it certainly helped as a lot of her job involved both written and verbal communication with a wide range of people. Her language skills helped her navigate all of that.

 

[Keim]

Pre-med in whichever college is fine, because it is a means to an end. The issue is that people get an English or History major and then try to get a good paying job with the Bachelor degree.

Liberal Arts degree in Communication Theory. Wife the same. We both happen to have Masters, but that doesnt play into how well we are NOW paid. Nor does it play into the business i built. Our personal initiative does that. We have both done very well, as have our friends with similar BA degrees.

 

[youbet]

Pre-med in whichever college is fine, because it is a means to an end. The issue is that people get an English or History major and then try to get a good paying job with the Bachelor degree.

I think the point being made is that it's the major, not the broad school classification, that should be the focus. For example, MIT offers a major in Literature and many other so-called "Liberal Arts" majors. Many so-called Liberal Arts schools offer majors focused on Pre-Med.

One that always throws me off is Northwestern. It's generally labeled a "Liberal Arts" school with world-wide recognized programs in performing arts, journalism, business, etc. Yet they also offer a solid engineering curriculum.

 

[reneeh63]

$92k is too much especially since it's not Ivy League and daughter couldn't get into the state flagship school.

I'd also wonder what her major was going to be - others may disagree but it had better be STEM/premed/prelaw, etc. and not French Lit/Art History or the like. Those can be avocations but not $400k professions.

 

[Keim]

I think the point being made is that it's the major, not the broad school classification, that should be the focus. For example, MIT offers a major in Literature and many other so-called "Liberal Arts" majors. Many so-called Liberal Arts schools offer majors focused on Pre-Med.

One that always throws me off is Northwestern. It's generally labeled a "Liberal Arts" school with world-wide recognized programs in performing arts, journalism, business, etc. Yet they also offer a solid engineering curriculum.

Id argue it is neither the STEM vs Liberal Arts OR the degree. It is the aptitude and attitude of the individual. IME the degree matters very little aside from getting that first job out of school.