College or car?

[Koolau]

That's great. But you need to recognize that 88-95 out of 100 applicants to these schools do not get accepted. And, the student needs to have a desire to study a STEM field.

I would agree that it's pointless to send a student to a STEM school if they have no interest. However, IF the ultimate goal is for the student to find well-paid employment after 4 years of university, a liberal arts school is not as likely to fulfill that goal.

Nothing personal. Just a fact that LAs degrees don't typically pay as well as STEM field j*bs. Are there exceptions. Yes, just like every other "thumb" rule has exceptions. Will your student be the exception...?

BUT, if LAs become the student's goal, then why pay for more than a State school LA education?

Thinking out Loud here so please no one take offense. None intended. (I could be wrong but I'm not evil).

 

[RetiredHappy]

STEM degrees offer a solid leg-up into the corporate world with high paying jobs. I come from a culture that you either become a doctor, lawyer or an engineer, otherwise you need to get lucky to get a good paying job. We made three-quarter of a million dollars a year between the two of us in STEM career. Sure, you can still get a good job majoring in other areas but you need a mix of good luck and good attitude.

 

[Sarah S]

I don’t think we know enough about this young woman. We don’t know what she wants to study or what her applications looked like. When I graduated high school the flagship state university was considered a safety school in my crowd now it accepts less than 60% and those who are accepted have gpas of 3.9 plus and high sats. And some majors are even more selective. She might have had a great application but colleges look for diversity and maybe her extracurriculars were run of the mill.

 

[disneysteve]

I think the point being made is that it's the major, not the broad school classification, that should be the focus.

Exactly! Many are missing that point. Saying "liberal arts schools are worthless" or "I wouldn't pay for a 'liberal arts' degree" isn't really what you mean.

 

[disneysteve]

Id argue it is neither the STEM vs Liberal Arts OR the degree. It is the aptitude and attitude of the individual. IME the degree matters very little aside from getting that first job out of school.

We had a good friend who graduated college with a degree in Philosophy. I'm sure many here would consider that a "worthless" degree. I don't know what he did at the start of his career, but he ended up being the head of Human Resources for Insurance Company of North America. That's where he spent the bulk of his career. He traveled all around the world and made a very nice fortune for himself and his wife with that liberal arts education.

 

[disneysteve]

STEM degrees offer a solid leg-up into the corporate world with high paying jobs. I come from a culture that you either become a doctor, lawyer or an engineer, otherwise you need to get lucky to get a good paying job. We made three-quarter of a million dollars a year between the two of us in STEM career. Sure, you can still get a good job majoring in other areas but you need a mix of good luck and good attitude.

Earning a lot of money is not the sole goal of college or life. Plenty of non-STEM fields pay decent money and not everyone is interested in STEM. We need all types of people and workers to keep things humming along. I totally agree that you shouldn't spend 92K/yr to become a social worker for example, but I also 100% support the need for good social workers.

 

[Keim]

BUT, if LAs become the student's goal, then why pay for more than a State school LA education?

Thinking out Loud here so please no one take offense. None intended. (I could be wrong but I'm not evil).

I agree LA degrees pay less imnediately out of school. But I think that fact is geatly ameliorated by the fact rhat most LA folks would not do well in STEM fields. My prospects for a successful career in a STEM field would be about 0%. OTOH I am award winning in my chosen field.

I also want to poke you on the above quote. I have 2 daughters. One pursuing a PhD in molecular biology at a state university. The other pre vet at a small private LA college. Cost for both dsughters BAs has been about the same.

 

[Lorenzo]

Earning a lot of money is not the sole goal of college or life. Plenty of non-STEM fields pay decent money and not everyone is interested in STEM. We need all types of people and workers to keep things humming along. I totally agree that you shouldn't spend 92K/yr to become a social worker for example, but I also 100% support the need for good social workers.

My mom was a hospital social worker. She made an effort to assure me I could be anything I wanted, but I got the sense she was quite pleased to see me ultimately choose from among “doctor, lawyer, engineer.”

 

[reneeh63]

Earning a lot of money is not the sole goal of college or life. Plenty of non-STEM fields pay decent money and not everyone is interested in STEM. We need all types of people and workers to keep things humming along. I totally agree that you shouldn't spend 92K/yr to become a social worker for example, but I also 100% support the need for good social workers.

I certainly agree - I got a 'liberal arts degree' in psychology and a masters degree in exp. psych...with 8 classes in experimental methods and statistics. So yeah, I made pretty good money working in corporate America.

If you're planning to go into professions that don't pay well then you don't invest half a mill in tuition/living expenses - period. Education is an investment and you don't invest if there's not a reasonable return. We need grade school teachers - but that doesn't require hundreds of thousands of $ of post secondary education to do well. "Kids" need to be taught realism - both sons and daughters.

 

[COcheesehead]

Yes, but I guess I left unsaid, ....how good could this private school be ( not 92K worth of good!) if the student couldn't get into their state's flagship Conclusion :said 92K school is not worth the money.

You’re following the wrong direction. The college wants the money. They’ll take anyone willing to pay.

 

[Golden sunsets]

You’re following the wrong direction. The college wants the money. They’ll take anyone willing to pay.

Thus by default, said private school must be less "selective" and not worth the money, whereas a private school that requires its accepted applicants meet a higher standard than a public Universities incoming class and charges more can justify a higher price tag. I guess I'm saying, I wouldn't spend more for a private vs public education unless there is added value.

 

[COcheesehead]

Thus by default, said private school must be less "selective" and not worth the money, whereas a private school that requires its accepted applicants meet a higher standard than a public Universities incoming class and charges more can justify a higher price tag. I guess I'm saying, I wouldn't spend more for a private vs public education unless there is added value.

You said you are struggling as to why the liberal arts school would take a sub par student. It’s because they are willing to pay $92,000. Follow the money.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

State schools are very competitive now. And liberal arts degree is different from liberal arts colleges which have a lot of STEM majors.

No the point is does it matter if you have $400k in cars in the driveway if you shell out $400k for a college education? Isn't it all the same capital. Driving? Or college? I don't see why even complain about cost when you have $400k in front of you.

The only thing is yes maybe the monthly payments are lower since it might be a 5 year loan instead of 4 years, but seriously cars = college. Yes you can pick cheaper cars and cheaper colleges, but if you are spending for one why not the other?

 

[disneysteve]

Yes you can pick cheaper cars and cheaper colleges, but if you are spending for one why not the other?

And it's rather twisted to value your cars over your kid's education.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I'm struggling with the fact that any applicant would be accepted by a small liberal arts college that charges $92K/yr, when that same student could not get accepted by their State flafship university. This just does not compute for me.

Small colleges need enrollment and are less selective in my observations/experience (BS and MS from smallish private schools). If you're willing to pay, they will take you...up to a point. The state flagship schools have the flexibility to enforce some standards, esp in the more competitive programs.

 

[SnowballCamper]

My degree was in computer science and music. I made enough money with computers that I could afford to buy a lot of guitars.

This is what I preach to DD. For most people it's much better to find something that you're good at, pays well, and can tolerate. Then you have the means to do what you love.

 

[Keim]

Small colleges need enrollment and are less selective in my observations/experience (BS and MS from smallish private schools). If you're willing to pay, they will take you...up to a point. The state flagship schools have the flexibility to enforce some standards, esp in the more competitive programs.

I think you are charmingly optimistic about state schools and standards. At least as I see from the 2 land grant indtitutions in my locale.

 

[marko]

I don't think this has anything to do with cars or 'unaffordability'.

OP states that the girl was rejected by the in-state flagship school. I wonder why, but I'd expect poor academics to be the reason.

I suspect that a high priced college may have more lax acceptance criteria. (In my day they were known as "college for dumb rich kids")

I wonder if the parents are using 'unaffordable' as an excuse, knowing that (to be blunt) it will be a complete waste of money.

 

[freedomatlast]

I'm not sure I'd invest 92K in college for a child that wasn't accepted by a flagship in state school. The cars would have nothing to do with the decision. Most people don't reach financial independence by making bad financial decisions and this scenario is no different.

 

[marko]

And it's rather twisted to value your cars over your kid's education.

If I knew my kid was a poor student, unmotivated, unfocused and likely to eventually drop out, I'd just enjoy the car. I might even get a motorcycle too.

As noted, the girl was rejected by the state school which I'd presume was for a valid academic reason.

I really don't believe it has anything to do with cars or affordability. But YMMV

 

[RetiredHappy]

If I knew my kid was a poor student, unmotivated, unfocused and likely to eventually drop out, I just enjoy the car.

As noted, the girl was rejected by the state school which I'd presume was for a valid academic reason.

I really don't believe it has anything to do with cars or affordability. But YMMV

+1.

 

[Sunset]

My "liberal arts degree" was a BS in Biology/Pre-Med.

Liberal arts isn't a degree. It's a type of school. Harvard is a liberal arts school. Yale is a liberal arts school. In fact, ALL 8 Ivy League colleges are liberal arts schools.

If people want to debate the value of specific fields of study, fine, but blanket statements suggesting liberal arts schools are worthless make no sense at all.

It's the degree that's important, not the school.

So you got a BS (Science degree) something that I personally see as more employable than a BA (ex History degree). Sure the History major could get a job if they also get a Masters and PHD in History, but at the undergrad level a BA overall has less earning power on it's own.

I believe this as I got a BA and then had low paying jobs for 10 yrs.
I went back to the same school and got a BS and my same job gave me a $10K raise as soon as I showed them my degree. Then I went on to other good paying jobs.

 

[Koolau]

I don't think this has anything to do with cars or 'unaffordability'.

OP states that the girl was rejected by the in-state flagship school. I wonder why, but I'd expect poor academics to be the reason.

I suspect that a high priced college may have more lax acceptance criteria. (In my day they were known as "college for dumb rich kids")

I wonder if the parents are using 'unaffordable' as an excuse, knowing that (to be blunt) it will be a complete waste of money.

Oddly enough, when I was w*rking on college admission (60 years ago) we had State schools which where "known" (nod, nod, wink, wink) as easier to get into than other state schools. AND they were cheaper!

Of course, these schools had much lesser reputations, academically (and important to a high-schooler seeking college admission in the mid '60s) "party-wise!"

 

[disneysteve]

Small colleges need enrollment and are less selective in my observations/experience

I think just the opposite is true. Small private schools live and die on their stats. Graduation rate. Grad school placement rate. Etc. They are typically far more selective. It's generally easier to get into a state school than a good private school.

 

[disneysteve]

It's the degree that's important, not the school.

Exactly my point. All of the people saying "don't go to a liberal arts school" don't seem to get that.