Comparison tool? Moving to Western Europe

[Hermes]

Are there any online tools out there for comparing moving to different countries in Western Europe? I'm thinking things like taxes, cost of living, ease of learning the language, healthcare quality, healthcare costs, etc.

My goal is to move to Western Europe in 6 years when I FIRE. I've been systematically going to the various countries in short-term trial living situations and have a good pulse on culturally and living-wise where might be best, but now I need to get more into the practical items, and I'm thinking someone, somewhere, has already built a useful tool for this.

 

[Koolau]

I found this:

What Are My Options Retiring As An American Expat In Europe

Retiring as an American expat in Europe? Plan your residency, finances, and taxes with expert advice to secure a stable, fulfilling retirement abroad.

www.blacktowerus.com

But it only scratches the surface.

It's a very complicated question and a complicated situation you contemplate.

Oh, and what are your thoughts on Air Conditioning?

 

[Drake3287]

Lot's great informational video's on YouTube from current expats. I follow a couple from Italy myself.

 

[thnsn]

There are dozens of calculators like this online: https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living
Look for expat communities in areas that you are interested in. Also find a local tax attorney to help avoid surprises. This might be helpful in a general sense: Taxes for Expats: US expat tax preparation services

 

[Buckeye]

If you have a Facebook account, there are expat groups that have lots of information.

 

[oiseux]

I would keep in mind that in any given country, the experience and data may vary by region within a given country quite greatly in terms of the criteria you cited: costs, health care access, learning the language, transportation, access, availability of english-langugage services, etc To help narrow things down, you might also include where you can retire on a passive income visa or a special program. Several of the countries do not have that option. Prioritizing your wants and desires can also narrow it down. Besides Expatistan cited previously, there is also Numbeo. (Both tend to sometimes get influenced by tourists, vs. locals). The theearthawaits.com combines data from different sources together. Also weatherspart.com can give you an idea of weather comparisons.

I am not a fan of the Taxes for Expats site. In fact, they have an article on French-US taxation that is horribly wrong. The rest of the site has been improving, but this example makes me distrust the other information. There are better sites for each particular country.

Just a warning about information on the web, even from the major accounting firms -- it is often written from a generic global perspective, and includes those are who are working. Other focus too much on special programs or may be out of date. You are best to consult a specific advisor (their webinars can be helpful), but lacking that, look for information targeted at retirees and aligned your country of citizenship.

The Blacktower site includes outdated information on Golden Visas programs. They are missing information on a number of countries, and the limited taxation information is not useful (generic to the point of implying inaccurate conclusions).

As background, we toured across western Europe and then bought well in advance of retiring. We split time between France and the US but will shift increasingly to time overseas. We have also separately been expats in three other Western European countries.

 

[keppelbay]

Taxation: Don't let the tax tail wag the dog.

As a US citizen you are liable for US income tax on world-wide income, even while living abroad. Most European countries have tax treaties with the US that address dual taxation (ie which country gets to tax what). One way or another, you will pay the higher of the two: US or local tax.

Taxation beyond your US tax liabilities differ by country, but probably not enough that this should be a major consideration in where you choose to live. You should use a local tax expert who is familiar with US dual taxation, at least until you become familiar with how it works. The PWC website has useful, well organized information on the countries you may be interested in.

Lifestyle, language etc are more important. You probably have a handle on this from your trial runs. You probably also have a good sense of the cost of living (except perhaps of buying property).

Healthcare is more complex as the national systems differ quite a bit. Private healthcare is generally good, and cheaper than in the US, whether paid directly or via private health insurance. Tax-funded national healthcare systems are generally good quality, though there may be waiting times for non-urgent care. The UK has service provision issues. Once you've narrowed down your wish-list, talk to expats who live there, so you get to understand the healthcare system through their first-hand experience.

Final note: living abroad long-term is different than going for a short-term stay, even one of a few months. Everything is exciting at first. Whether the cultural differences will grow on you or wear on you is something you learn by experience. Consider taking it in steps: a mid-term stay (renting), with the option to extend.

 

[FIREd]

I think it would be best to narrow it down to a few places that might meet your criteria and then do a comparison. There are too many variables otherwise.

 

[Koolau]

Final note: living abroad long-term is different than going for a short-term stay, even one of a few months. Everything is exciting at first. Whether the cultural differences will grow on you or wear on you is something you learn by experience. Consider taking it in steps: a mid-term stay (renting), with the option to extend.

I think this is the most important piece of the potential expat experience. I moved to Hawaii 18 years ago (not even "out of the country") and I can tell you that it is NOT for everyone - even if money (in a HCOL area) is no object. I have known perhaps a couple of dozen "recent expats" to Hawaii in my time in the Islands. Of those I've known who moved to the Islands AFTER I moved, not one remains. The expats I know who still live in the Islands all moved before I did.

I've told the story before that in the 16 years in my current condo, I've had 3 next door neighbors who lasted as long as 3 years and one less than 4 months. I've made 3 sets of close friends in the building and they have lasted 3 to 6 years before returning to the mainland.

Full disclosure: WE (DW and I) have not given up our place on the mainland! We pay a small fortune to maintain it (rent and travel expenses, plus car). I believe that is why my "permanent" residence remains in the Islands. I think if someone "forced" me to choose one or the other residence, I would be hard pressed to give up the mainland residence. I sometimes think of myself as being on a permanent vacation in Hawaii. You really have to "know yourself."

Being an expat is complicated and it merits a lot of thought and a good "escape plan" as suggested by keppelbay. I'd want at LEAST a year of expat living before even considering a home purchase.

 

[boatfishandnature]

Are there any online tools out there for comparing moving to different countries in Western Europe? I'm thinking things like taxes, cost of living, ease of learning the language, healthcare quality, healthcare costs, etc.

My goal is to move to Western Europe in 6 years when I FIRE. I've been systematically going to the various countries in short-term trial living situations and have a good pulse on culturally and living-wise where might be best, but now I need to get more into the practical items, and I'm thinking someone, somewhere, has already built a useful tool for this.

These rather optimistic guys give you a place to start, but I think that everyone who has done it agrees that it is more complicated than it may seem at first:

https://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/

Europe’s Best Places To Live Or Retire

pages.liveandinvestoverseas.com

My DW and I have been living in the Algarve (Southern Portugal) for 7 years now and are very happy here, but there have definitely been difficulties along the way. Be careful with visa and citizenship rules and tax benefits offered, as they change often.